how to keep the n at bay...

[write]

parenting together means we have to see each other, but I'm wondering if a more formal agreement might be useful.

I was greeted today with 'I saw a shirt perfect for you yesterday' ( heart stops...you wait for it ) 'It's all about me...'

So how do I keep out of this kind of thing?

I've been trying so hard for us to be friends and salvage something from all these difficult years...but I'm wondering if it's not time to move on, consult a lawyer and draw up final plans and stop trying to make it a friendly agreement when he is so pernicious.

I really believe it's best for us as a family if we could keep things amicable and work them out ourselves but how can I when every time he sees I'm happy he makes things difficult?

[write]

...he went on to tell me how selfish I am etc and didn't leave until I was upset. I tried to keep out of it but you all know it doesn't make a difference what you say or do- it's not what they hear anyway.

[Anonymous]

but I'm wondering if a more formal agreement might be useful.

I've been trying so hard for us to be friends and salvage something from all these difficult years...but I'm wondering if it's not time to move on, consult a lawyer and draw up final plans and stop trying to make it a friendly agreement when he is so pernicious.

My opinion--with such an N as you describe, probably yes. Can you imagine trying to work things out with him and going through this for the rest of your life? it won't get an easier with an N person.  

I really believe it's best for us as a family if we could keep things amicable... and work them out ourselves but how can I when every time he sees I'm happy he makes things difficult?

They aren't entirely amicable now anyway from what you write. He is hostile and you are probably drained in trying to keep the peace.you don't have to be nasty if you have a formal legal agreement.you personally can choose to still be amicable and he can still do whatever he wants. The difference is that  you don't have to constantly try to negotiate with someone irrational and  you can quietly go about your business as to what your legal rights are--and ignore his comments. You can keep out the the kind of comments or conversations that you want to. you can also have **less** contact with him because negotiating together requires more contact than the both of you following a legal mandate would.

A legal mandate would give you more control over the situation and less interaction with him.he might behave badly over it but it isn't as though he is behaving good now. if that were the case it sounds like you wouldn't be considering this other option. another thing he will have brought upon himself--like N's do.  

are you ready to accept this change in your relationship with him? it is a change for you too even if you were unhappy with the way it was before. like you said--it is you letting go and moving on from your emotional ties with him.

[write]

if you're involved with a narcissist you'll already know- it really doesn't matter what you do or say.
It's about their internal raging emotions really, they're going to rage at you whatever.

N-h knows this now, and he's even apologetic sometimes.
Most interactions between us are functional.

But for me it's this inconsistency, the never knowing when it'll all change with no warning, I guess that's what I'm questionning now, whether I really am able to tolerate living like this.

I don't know how to change it though...except by being kind and encouraging the therapy etc and working through the crap.

I know if I try to distance myself physically via a lawyer he'll up the anti and I cannot cope with that either.

Think I'll go read some Patricia Evans on 'crazy-making' behaviour...thats how I feel today, like nothing makes sense, I can't focus or find a calm place inside.

If things are true to form when I see him next he'll be charming and perfectly relaxed. Until the next time...

[write]

" you're trying to kill me"

That is interesting since it is how I feel during one of his unreasonable attacks.

And that's usually the point I totally crumble: when he turns it around that instead- I am doing it to him...it feels so unjust and I feel so angry and impotent.


***

It really does feel sometimes like a physical battle for possession of my soul...

[Cadbury]

I can only sympathise. I am expecting a baby with an N boyfriend. I truly thought he was everything I ever wanted and the fact that he isn't at all is hard. When he is being nice (ie normal) I want it to be okay so badly that I get close to giving in and going back to him just for the nice bits. I even talk myself in to putting up with his crap just to get the affection and cuddles (especially if I am doing things his way). I too have tried working through it amicably and tried to be reasonable and like you have days where I am met with perfectly normal behaviour. How are you? How's the pregnancy, if you want me to help in any way, just say , .... etc etc. Closely followed by days where I am told that "you are the type of person who needs someone", "you have hurt me more than anyone ever has" I don't deserve this" "you wouldn't have anything if it wasn't for me" " I would not have gotten you pregnant if I'd known what you were really like" and worse. I know that my family will be better off without him, but like you I try and make it work.

I think what we are doing is giving an n person, normal traits. What I mean is, we are treating them as a normal person and expecting them to act that way. I just find it so hard to accept that he is like that. His nice bits are the best, but his n bits are so awful I know I can't cope with them. I have broken up with him almost every day for two months now and I am so drained by it all. I don't mean that I go back on my word, but that he doesn't accept it and ignores what I say and then we have the same thing all over again the next day. That's why I think that if you go for the legal route, at least you don't have to worry about his N traits affecting your day to day life. You can stick by what is legally binding and if he is having an "off" day, you don't have to worry about it. I am thinking along those lines myself.  

I hope you sort it all out, and if you want to let off steam and just get something off your chest then feel free!

[Anonymous]

His nice bits are the best, but his n bits are so awful I know I can't cope with them.

Ns are a Dickens tale -- the best and worst of times.

I have broken up with him almost every day for two months now and I am so drained by it all

You must be drained, Cadbury. Hadn't seen your posts for a while; wondered how you were doing.

It really does feel sometimes like a physical battle for possession of my soul...

Very well put, write, which is why I'm really fortunate that my ex-N is completely out of the picture for now (and for the foreseeable future) although he still has a few ties to my community.

[Anonymous]

But for me it's this inconsistency, the never knowing when it'll all change with no warning, I guess that's what I'm questionning now, whether I really am able to tolerate living like this.  

I know if I try to distance myself physically via a lawyer he'll up the anti and I cannot cope with that either.

You initially mentioned thinking on getting a lawyer so it seems like it might be an option-- but a feared one.   If by upping the anti you mean he could threaten the financial security of you & your child then I guess you do have things to consider.  

If you only mean emotionally and not financially then that is just the point of a legal arrangement.You’d deal with him less & wouldn’t give him the opportunity to up the anti emotionally. And as far as him manipulating arrangements he’d be bound by the court mandate.  

If you fear him physically if you distance yourself then this is another thing altogether, too.

But if it is strictly an emotional thing the decision is really yours to make of course but I don’t think you should have to live with the inconsistency-- or this:

you're trying to kill me"

That is interesting since it is how I feel during one of his unreasonable attacks.

And that's usually the point I totally crumble: when he turns it around that instead- I am doing it to him...it feels so unjust and I feel so angry and impotent. It really does feel sometimes like a physical battle for possession of my soul...

I know this might seem like a very weird question but if you are very honest with yourself-- do you think there is a small part of you that does not really *want* to let go of him & get more distant from him?