Author Topic: Need to whine and cry and cry...  (Read 2127 times)

ResilientLady

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« on: January 04, 2005, 01:10:47 PM »
Hi I just need to talk b/c I am sad. I finally went to NFather's great doctor today to find about allergy stuff (remember the oedem I had that made me look look like an elephant woman)...
So I went to this doc in a forsaken surbub, I arrived by train 30 min in advance. I could not find the way to the hospital (last time I went there was 15 years ago for rhinites). Finally I arrived. I was expecting a lot about the food allergy stuff and also about my respiratory problems I still have.
I was at least expecting him to give me a medical order for surgery for my nose b/c I breathe w/ only one nostril (my nose is not straight) and I've been sick half of the time for this past 6 months..
The guy was ob-no-xious!!! He laughed at me and so on... When I think he is the "great doctor" that NFather said saved his life when he had his pneumonia 28 years ago, I can't believe it... Since I left I have been crying in the train, in the subway, in the street.
That's another NDoctor, for sure... I was so disappointed. A good thing that my doctor in Paris is great...
Why did  I listen to NFather (once more)??? Do I need another N???
Sorry if my post does not make sense to anybody (myself included). I just need to whine and complain. I don't like when I do that but I hope it will stop the crying.
I looked at myself in the mirror and I remember Nanalyst telling me when I was crying in his session: "look at yourself in the mirror, look how ugly you are when you are crying.. "
I am really tired of doctors (Nanalyst had studied medecine for 10 years or more!!) who are just big disgusting N !!!
Now I feel anger coming back, maybe it will stop the tears...
Pls forgive me for this stupid post, I just need to talk a littlle bit. I hope my posts are not too depressing... I have not been in a so good shape these days...
Sorry... :cry:
-Resilient Lady
PS and forgive my English, I feel it's been getting worst and worst lately

Anonymous

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2005, 01:30:06 PM »
Dear RL,
What a day you've had. Poor dear. I am sorry to hear of your N encounter with a doctor, no less. I've known some to be wonderful and others to have a serious God-complex. They're human, too, and sometimes I think they might forget occasionally. The doctor you dealt with today sounds horrible. Don't berate yourself for opening up and letting out some earnest feelings and tears. The situation you described today was inexcusable and I would feel sad, too.

Please hang in there and keep posting. The only way through hell some days is to keep walking through it. However when the pain is caused by needless insensitivity or callously inappropriate behavior, it angers me.  :evil:

Best,
bludie

ResilientLady

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2005, 02:11:42 PM »
Thank you for your kind words, Bludie. They helped stop the flow of tears. The problem is when I start crying, it seems it will never stop b/c then I think about other sad events and so on...Pure self pity...
I guess the biggest the hopes, the biggest the disappointment... I really did not expect this doctor being that way...
Anyway my other (real) doctor told me to go to another one (a surgeon) to see if I can get operated. What I really did no get in this story is that 15 years ago, the NDoctor (that I saw today) gave an agreement so that I can get operated for my rhinites (he showed me the paper today). For some reason, I had never heard about such an agreement. My parents always said there was "nothing" that required an operation. I was 15 at the time and I remember I badly wanted to get rid of this nose problem...
How come I never saw that agreement paper???
I have no idea. All I know is Nmother never admitted that I could be sick. The few times I have spent in hospital were "nothing" for her, and if I had a little flu and if I wanted to go home (to be pampered :wink: ), she would say "no, don't come hoome, stay where you are, we do not want your virus..." (my youngest Nsister had started this way of acting w/ me at a very early age).
Now when I think I visited 2 years ago Nmother for 2 months after her car accident, I forced her to see a chiropractor, deal w/ PTSD,etc.. ..all she could say was that I never visited her (and none of my 2 Nsis had visited her during this time even once!!). At times I really think I am losing my mind..
So many stories when she would deny my "right to be sick" when I was a kid... Looking back, it truly sounds amazing.
Oh well... I will stop complaining, or it may never stop.
Anyway now that I have the medical ordrer (15 years old!!) I can get the operation, I hope.
And I won't say it to anybody in the NFamily. That would bring me only problems.
Thanx again for listening...
-RL

Portia

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2005, 02:50:06 PM »
Hi Resilient Lady and Bludie, this just made me mad:

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Nanalyst telling me when I was crying in his session: "look at yourself in the mirror, look how ugly you are when you are crying.. "


This is incredibly wrong! It’s such a stupid, callous thing to say. This analyst needs to have his qualification taken off him!  :evil: Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. What an idiot.

It wasn’t a stupid post RL, no, you’re not depressing and your English is 100% better than my French (I’m in the UK so I should be able to speak French, but I don’t). Keep posting.

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How come I never saw that agreement paper???


Yes, how come! When we find out very important facts like that from our childhood, it can shock us terribly. How do you feel about that? Betrayed? I might feel betrayed.

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At times I really think I am losing my mind..

I think you’re finding it!  :D

But go easy on yourself. Shocks like the one above can be stressful and draining. It hurts and the hurt is real. Yes, feeling the hurt now means it will get better in the long-term, but remember it’s okay to feel unhappy/shocked/angry/sad right now. It’s normal! You’re not complaining either. Or maybe you are complaining – but you have every right to! Complain away, you’re certainly not whining, you’ve had a tough time, okay?

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Anyway now that I have the medical ordrer (15 years old!!) I can get the operation, I hope.
Good  :D

When I saw your very first post here, I’d just had a food allergy. I’d eaten swordfish with garlic and parsley sauce. Never again. That night my whole head swelled up like a balloon. It was horrible! I was itchy and hot all over but my face looked like I’d been in a boxing ring – tiny eyes with huge puffy eyelids, a swollen forehead, big swollen lips that started to crack….yuk! So when I read about your swelling, wow, I wondered if you’d eaten swordfish too? Or maybe you had a bad allergic reaction? So I sympathise with your earlier experience, but I wonder if it was simply a food reaction. I hope so. Avoid fish. And garlic (!) :wink: . P

Anonymous

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2005, 02:52:10 PM »
RL,
I certainly think in whatever way you can nurture and care for yourself, go for it. Doesn't sound like your family environment was nurturing at all. Isn't surprising when Ns are running the show.

Maybe this news, though steeped in difficulty and sorrow today, is good news for the coming year. I hope so. Certainly sounds like you deserve it -- heck, we all do -- but your situation sounds particularly challenging and has earned you the apt adage of: Resilient Lady.

Best,
bludie

ResilientLady

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2005, 04:39:32 PM »
Hi Portia and hi (again) Bludie, thank you so much for your posts, it really helps me a lot about getting more clear about this situation... [beware it is a loooong post..]

 The bulge I had on the forehead (and on some parts of the arms) happened a few days after my Nfather's heart attack. At this time I was in Tel Aviv (Israel) for a job training, and I thought it was food allergy (the beer?). But I do not remember having eaten that evening something that I am not used to eat in France. And now, looking back, I doubt kosher restaurants may bring food allergies.  So I was not so sure about the allergy stuff, I wanted to make sure it was not food allergy by going to this doctor.

What I think now (and it scares me even more) is that it was a physiolgical reaction due to the shock of my Nfather's heart attack (that I interpreted as his death, as many slips of the tongue in my analysis showed : many time I said "when my dad was dead" instead of "when my dad had a heart attack"). Plus during the analysis I had a swollen ankle for nearly a month, that no doctor could explain. So I think it may be (in Freudian terms, I do not know other ones) "a hysterical conversion" : the psychic pain is so strong that it has to be conveyed to the body in some form. When I told this to this stupid doctor today, he laughed and said maybe... So it seems to be possible (I had checked on the internet, this type of "thing" seems to exist for some patients).

The other thing now, about my nose (so many phallic symbols here, hehe..) is that due to a not straight nose, only one nostril can "breathe" correctly. I had noticed this a long time ago, and "nothing could be done" was all I could hear. Until today, when I saw this paper. Hence my shock, I really do not know how come I could have "forgotten" that I could have gotten an operation... Anyway, I am happy to have found out about this and I will remember to trust only what I do, see or hear myself.

I am not paranoid, but when I am physically weak Nmother (and Nyoungsis) respond the oppposite way a mother /sis should (I will spare you other examples that are still painful to me). I wanted to understand their reaction to be able to accept it, and then be able to "internally" forgive (but keeping my boundaries high) them.
Here is what I found (please do not laugh about my "theory", I am serious about it), it's just logic :
1) Nyoung sis is only 1 year younger than me, and we have always fought (for a big part due to N mother). My first names are say: A, B,C. My Nyoung sis' s are : C, B, D. And B sounds in French "if he lives" and C means "life" in Polish.
2)I learnt from Nmother (no later than last september) that they only wanted two kids (N young sis was an "accident" so to speak).
3)Nmother admitted she wished she had at least one son whom she would name by the name of her own father. Too bad, she had three daughters!!!
4)Since my youngest age I have been obsessed with death and scared to get asleep for fear of not waking up (even today it happens)
5)My older Nsis born too early had been extremely sick during her first months. At the time Nmom was still working and "gave" her newborn baby to her...Nmother!
Hence her guillt and huge pain associated and her fear that her second child (me) becomes sick too when I was born.

=> my conclusion :
1)There is a very serious identity/enmeshing problem b/w Nyoung sis and I, and an issue about "life". And neither she nor I can do anything about it.
2)Unconscioulsy Nparents projected a strong "death pulsion" onto me, which of course as a baby I introjected.
As a result, when I have a health problem :
-Nmom denies it (her fear, hidden will?), Nyoung sis makes me feel worst.
-Nfather is extremely empathic to any of my illness, since he had been himself very sick (rare bacteria allergy in the lumbs) when I was 1 year old. And it is this doctor that I saw today who saved his life at the time.

Now, after this (very long) story, you have an idea about the diseases in the family, the symbols and the specific meanings of such or such disease/doctor.
About my 3rd first name I wanted to change it, but it is almost impossible in France w/o "reasonnable grounds". So I'll just live with it...

Bottom line : I cannot really resent anybody in such a family. Everybody has suffered one way or another, but I will not let them add to my pain anymore.
This is why I cut all contact w/ my 2 Nsisters and I just told my Nfather (minutes ago) I would change my phone numbers and will only accept communication w/ Nparents through letters.. for a while.
The time I need to really reconstruct myself and understand (among other things) the role(s) I gave to my father since I was born, taking into account that he had been seriously sick during most of mychildhood.

These are not happy stories, but this is life I guess...And I know there are far worst ones..
I feel better after I told a part of my story. Less weight on my shoulders... Please if you have any additional insight about all this, you are more than welcome...
Thanks again for listening for so long  

-RL

Anonymous

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2005, 06:53:55 PM »
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Bottom line : I cannot really resent anybody in such a family. Everybody has suffered one way or another, but I will not let them add to my pain anymore.


This sounds like a very useful and thoughtful observation, RL. I am a firm believer in the mind/body connection.  It sounds as if you're on the right track.

As for the dynamics with your sibs and parents, I am not qualified to conjecture but I do follow your reasoning when you say:
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4)Since my youngest age I have been obsessed with death and scared to get asleep for fear of not waking up (even today it happens)
5)My older Nsis born too early had been extremely sick during her first months. At the time Nmom was still working and "gave" her newborn baby to her...Nmother!
Hence her guillt and huge pain associated and her fear that her second child (me) becomes sick too when I was born.


Anytime that fear or illness dominates -- whether a family or even a work-oriented system -- tell-tale signs unfortunately manifest in the most vulnerable members of the system. In a family, it's children. And that's sad. But it sounds like you're working through it and having meaningful realizations.

I hope you find peace, RL, in the decisions you make concerning both family and health. Trust your instincts. As Janis Joplin once said: "Respect yourself. You're all you've got."

Best,
bludie

BlueTopaz

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2005, 10:35:54 PM »
Hi RL,

I'm really sorry for the crummy experience that you had at the Dr. today, and that former analyst sounds like a nutbar. Sad, scary, shameful to know that there are those out there like that, who are in the very sensitive work genre of "helping" others.

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but I will not let them add to my pain anymore. This is why I cut all contact w/ my 2 Nsisters and I just told my Nfather (minutes ago) I would change my phone numbers and will only accept communication w/ Nparents through letters.. for a while.  The time I need to really reconstruct myself and understand (among other things) the role(s) I gave to my father since I was born, taking into account that he had been seriously sick during most of mychildhood


Yes, there are times when one has to do just what is best for oneself, without the worry of others.  If this is your time, and what is best for you is self time without any emotional distractions, then so be it.  Do what you need to, to heal and feel well within.

Best....

BT

p.s. I hope you are able to get the operation you'd like to have.  Hard to believe there was an ok 15 years ago, that you never knew about.  

p.s.s.

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PS and forgive my English...


I truly had zero clue you spoke any other language as your first,  than English.  That is how well you write :)   I had to comment on that because I have been learning French for years (it is spoken where I moved to) and realize how difficult it is to learn another language to such a well point. I am impressed with your Eng.

Anonymous

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2005, 12:57:25 PM »
ResilientLady,

I'm sorry you had that awful experience with an N-doctor. It's traumatizing to see an unempathic, cold doctor who doesn't care. We put so much trust in them and they betray our trust when they act that way. And your analyst -- all I can say is HUH??!

The introjects we get from our parents are very interesting to observe (once we're old enough to understand) but we aren't doomed to them for life. That's what analysis is all about with a non-N analyst.

bunny

ResilientLady

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Need to whine and cry and cry...
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2005, 05:41:45 PM »
Hi Bludie, Portia, Blue Topaz and Bunny and all,

Thank you so so much for your support and so kind understanding. I do not know what I would do without this board....

Bludie, thank you for your kind words about the adage of Resilient Lady, it is sthg I should always keep in mind whatever happens... I have been lately felt caught into a whirlwind of emotions, I was so overwelmed yesterday... And you are right I am now learning to respect myself more.

Blue Topaz, I was glad to read  your post too... As you had suggested before, I will now give myself "time without emotional distraction" (well put!). As far as the operation is concerned I will see the surgeon next friday and see when to have it done. I hope it will help me breathe better (and go jooging in the woods faster!! :lol: ). And thanks for your compliment about my English, I guess I was eager to learn it at school as a way to get out of the family environment ASAP :wink: ..

Bunny you just read my mind  8) !!
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The introjects we get from our parents (...) aren't doomed to them for life. That's what analysis is all about with a non-N analyst.

You are right but now that I have (finally) understood this concept, I feel the need to explore it more now concerning my Nfather (I think the job is more or less done concerning Nmother/sis). I need to understand better, then be able to do the internal forgiving/acceptance (which I had a glimpse of experience for a few hours a few days ago).
Then I think about seeing a behavioralist therapîst (a woman who was a company psychologist had recommended one to me). Right now I am in the middle of the father analysis (which I do through reading books about father-daughter relationships), but I do not want to spend too much time about it.
I know it's tough in terms of emotions/pain/fears but I am the type of person who needs to understand what happened. If not, I am not able to truly "internally" forgive. And if I can't truly internally forgive, I won't be able to let go, and I will certainly project a lot of these feelings onto others..
BTW thanks for your empathy about my experience w/ this Nanalyst... I swear I will not go back to a psychoanalysis, I'd rather do it myself!  :wink:

And again, I would like to say a big big thanks  :D  :D to all of you for your warmth and generosity.
-RL