self-mutilation

[jondo]

I was wondering if any other victims/children of N's suffers from, or did during youth, self-mutilation.  I lived with thee comulsions beginning about 10ys age and I now know it to be as a result of N mothers abuse, both mentally, emotionally and physically.  Did anyone ever suffer from the compulsion to:
bite your lip repeatedly
bite your tongue
pull out all of your eyelashes
pull out your hair
hit yourself repeatedly in the same spot over many days until massive bruising
clench/knash/chip your teeth
overeating
over drinking alcohol
prolonged fasting

I did all of these throughout my youth and even simultaneously.  The amazing thing was that neither of my parents noticed any of this.  I have gone through therapy and am married with a child and I no longer have any compulsions and am truly happy.  I must add though that I have zero relationship with my mother (minimal with my father) as she denies any and all.  Don't wait for their aknowledgement of their behavior -  you don't need it.  Move on and deny them a relationship with you.  You have the power now. Regards to all.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jondo:

I did some of these things in childhood; pulling out clumps of hair (never thought of these together until right now, by my mother used to violently pull my hair...hmmmm.), overeating to the point of pain (no bulimia). Later some cutting type stuff, though ony briefly. Suicide attempts, a couple, and lots of running away and risky behavior with men as a teenager, not to mention a yen for sexual masochism (cured now for many years - I outlasted its function so it no longer appeals). Same animal all.

I overcame all these overt self-destructive behaviors years ago (though I may drink a bit much on occasion, when I feel really anxious), and even live, for the most part, a very happy and functional life (with periods of dismal and difficult stuff). However, I am realizing how much of my childhood stays with me, lurking just underneath it all, coloring much of what I do with at least the tiniest of shadows.

I think that even denying a relaionship and cutting all ties with abusive parents is not enough (may be enough for an adult relationship gone bad). I think only extensive examination of the way you carry it all forward like a big ugly monkey, just out of sight on your back, can help you truly get out from under it.

As adults, we often dispense with childish expressions os discontent, but if we don't adress that disontent, we risk merely replacing those outgrown behaviors with some more subtle but still-deforming patterns.

This is where I am. I though for a long time that I was "past" all that, but after a really bad period in my marriage a few years ago, I realized that it ain't necessarily so. There's more here than meets the eye, back there over my shoulder.

T

[serena]

I had many, many self-destructive behaviours that weren't so overt or 'physical'.....

I just made terribly bad choices and caused myself so much pain.  I know I could never have overcome that part of 'myself' were it not for intensive psychotherapy.

The irony is that my mother made me feel, as a child, that I was worthless, evil and a drain on her emotionally and in every other way.

I grew up believing it and the saddest thing is that her 'voice' was in my head for so, so long.  My 'internal' dialogue was cruel, cynical and harsh - always to myself.

Thank God I don't feel like that way anymore because it culminated in a (serious) suicide attempt.  Nine years of three-times weekly therapy ensued and I could not be happier.

That's not to say I don't have the daily frustrations of ordinary life, I am just grateful that I cope with them and see them as trivial when juxtaposed with my childhood and how much my mother abused my Psyche.

I am well now, happy, outgoing, carefree and loving towards others.  

Please seek help because the 'voice in your head' is not your own - it has been placed there by selfish, wicked and inadequate people.

Love

[Naomi]

Serena....

{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}

[phillip]

I had many, many self-destructive behaviours that weren't so overt or 'physical'.....

I just made terribly bad choices and caused myself so much pain.  I know I could never have overcome that part of 'myself' were it not for intensive psychotherapy.

The irony is that my mother made me feel, as a child, that I was worthless, evil and a drain on her emotionally and in every other way.

I grew up believing it and the saddest thing is that her 'voice' was in my head for so, so long.  My 'internal' dialogue was cruel, cynical and harsh - always to myself.

Thank God I don't feel like that way anymore because it culminated in a (serious) suicide attempt.  Nine years of three-times weekly therapy ensued and I could not be happier.

That's not to say I don't have the daily frustrations of ordinary life, I am just grateful that I cope with them and see them as trivial when juxtaposed with my childhood and how much my mother abused my Psyche.

I am well now, happy, outgoing, carefree and loving towards others.  

Please seek help because the 'voice in your head' is not your own - it has been placed there by selfish, wicked and inadequate people.

Love

Thank-you all for sharing.  I also attempted suicide a number of years ago.  And yes, it was serious.  Despair is a deep black pit.  And when our parents arm us with nothing but their own pathology, we have scant resources to fall back on.  I am thankful we have survived.  

There is an anecdote from the biography of Abraham Maslow.  When he was a young boy he brought home some stray kittens.  He fed them milk from one of his mothers saucers.  When she discovered this, she killed the kittens before his eyes.  He admitted to hating her.  When she died he did not attend her funeral.  One of the founders of "Humanistic Psychology", yet never quite able to get THAT monkey off his back.  I suppose the anger masks the hurt and one has to go through the hurt to find neutral indifference.  For some the hurt is insurmountable, I guess or at least a formidable spector.

[no1where]

I did (do) this sort of self-abusive outburst when someone is making me feel powerless and abused.  The source of my anger is a feeling of impotence against my abuser. I want to hurt them, but I don't hit other people so I hit myself.

Unlike other people, I don't see this sort of demonstration as being entirely unhealthy, in terms of venting frustration....hey, at least you haven't killed anybody.

However, if your self-mutulation extends beyond mild bruising/scratching and trends towards suicidal ideation, perhaps you should consult with a professional to see what you can work on to overcome that compulsion.

Be well.

No1

[Anonymous]

I feel ashamed and embarrassed to admit my past and present compulsions, even here.

At what point do I take responsibility for my own behaviour and stop allowing myself to act compulsively?  Or do I not understand the meaning of that word...compulsion......unable to stop myself from doing?? or is it just a strong, strong urge??  I admit, I'm too lazy to look it up.

I don't believe I am unable to resist compulsion.....I believe I haven't tried hard enough to break certain habits (and I know I can do so because I have tried hard enough for some habits, which felt compulsive to me, and I have broken them).  It is possible to correct my own behaviour.  I have proven that to myself.

The more faith I have in myself, the better.  I must resolve to have faith in myself, as often as possible and this will help me to overcome the compulsions I still have...strong, strong urges.

I once decided to comit suicide.  I had it all planned and was about to begin when the phone rang.  It was a friend of mine.  She was extremely upset.  A cousin of hers had comitted suicide and she had just heard about it.  My friend was livid.  She and I were very close.  She vented clearly and explicitly to me.

"How could she do such a thing?"  my friend said, "And leave the rest of us to face the sh.....t of this world?  She wasn't thinking about how many people she would hurt by leaving us!!!  How our hearts would ache without her?  She didn't care!  She was so wrapped up in her own pain that she didn't even consider anyone else's!!  How perfectly and utterly selfish suicide is!!!"

I didn't kill myself that day and to be honest, my friend's words still keep me from considering it.

[Anonymous]

I relate - I hesitated a minute before signing off on my above post. But, I also considered these questions/answers:

Does anyone here really know who "T" is? No. Can I ever be punished for posting/admitting this in my "real life"? No. Does admitting these things make any of my other statements/ideas less valid or true? No.

On compulsion/strong urges (they can be the same for this purpose, I think): I think we are not sucessful if we RESIST compulsion, only if we attack the root of the compulsion itself. Self-destructive behaviors can be functional in that they serve a purpose of emotional release - of pain, of fury, of hoplessness, of fear. They can be energizing, as well, once completed.

So there's the rub: To stop the strong urge/compulsion, first you must understand its function. After you come to terms with that, you are in a new postion. You may find that simple understanding does the trick - or you may find that you need to provide yourself with new, more positive outlets for those urges that function the same way, that help release those pent-up and difficult emotions.

Or, as in the case of my sexual masochism phase, you may just continue with your compulsion until you get it out of your system, with an awareness of what you are really doing.

Understanding these behaviors as serving a purpose can help you to at least keep them manageable and reasonably safe until you figure out the rest of the internal puzzle.

I think your friend pretty much covered the suicide question. I wholeheartedly agree.

T

[Naomi]

Yeah....it's so true. Those you would leave behind are the ones who truly suffer and hurt. I am so glad you have overcome this compulsion.

Many people consider suicide, at least once in their lifetimes. It is normal to feel that way, but not normal to take it to the extreme and make an attempt. Thinking about it, is one thing. Overcoming it is so important, and realising that you are just a hurt, trapped spirit that needs desparately to be healed.

Best wishes, take care.

~Naomi

[Anonymous]

On the other hand, I had a friend, a very close friend, who killed herself.

No matter how hurt I feel when I think about losing her, no matter how lonely, or how much I miss her...I can't seem to think of her as selfish.

She was a kind, giving, gentle person.  She had difficulties all of her life and her mother comitted suicide at the same age.  She was on every med going and nothing worked for long.  She was troubled and tried so hard to overcome her problems.  She went to therapy.  She tried to let others know her needs and asked for help.  She reached out and looked within.  Then.....there was just one more, huge, massive, trauma in her life.  Her son did something horrible.  And she......quit.

I want to think she was selfish and didn't think of my hurt and her children's hurt and all the other people who feel the hurt of losing her.  How do I know she didn't?  How do I know how much of that pain she added to her own bucket?  I know she was ill.  I know she tried to recover.  I know there were predisposing tendancies.  I know the traumas she withstood and I know she just ran out of steam.

Same guest who's friend called to vent about her cousin comitting suicide.

I hate to admit a grey area here.  But...I wasn't the one suffering what she was so I am trying not to judge with a straight and narrow mallot.

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to agree with suicide not being selfish.  I had a nearly successful attempt once and several pathetic attempts during my life.  I was 5 the first time I tried to kill myself.  I thought I could stay underwater long enough to drown in our pool, but didn't realize at the time that my body would not let me do that.  Anyway, I'm not sure how suicide can be considered selfish.  You don't know someone's pain and suffering.  I have Bi-Polar disorder which has a 30% fatality from suicide.  Fortunately for me this is no longer an option.  Once my daughter was born it just isn't an option anymore.  I will do my best to never do anything to purposely hurt her.  A daughter should know that her mother loves her and she won't understand if I check out early.

 I had/have many compulsive behaviors.  Hair pulling, banging my head against things, hitting myself repeatedly in one spot, digging my fingernail into my arm until it bled and letting men do whatever they want with me unprotected where probably the most harmful.  The only one I still do is pulling my hair.  When I am so mad and the rage has filled my mind and I can't find the words to express my anger.  The pain would always bring clarity - make the voices stop.

[Naomi]

"I'm not sure how suicide can be considered selfish. You don't know someone's pain and suffering. "


You really made me think. I always figured it to be a selfish act, due to the pain and heartache suffered by those you leave behind.

Now I have to rethink that, because, each case must be different...some people are just in too much pain to go on anymore...and you can't fault them for needing and wanting to leave.

One of my friends is Bi-polar. I remember, at times, sitting up all night just emailing her all night long, back and forth, trying to help her, in any way I could, because she made very serious attempts on her own life and I knew my friend was coming close to that again, and I did what I could to be a comfort to her and let her express her feelings to me. I am glad I was there for her, even though I would almost collapse from trying so hard to hold on to her and not let go, I would lose many nights sleep. She is doing much better these days, I am grateful.

She is so much stronger than she used to be.

But I thank you for opening my eyes, that some people are in too much pain and need to be released from this life. I suppose I am still a little confused, not wanting to cast judgement on those who suffer so much that they can't hang on.

[phillip]

Sometimes a suicide attempt can be nothing more than a last desperate deliberate act in a life spun hopelessly out of control.  Chronic depression left unchecked led to abject despair, in my case.  I needed some serious therapy but was too numb to realize it.

[Anonymous]

Naomi,

I'm glad that my post made you think.  As yours did for me also.  I'm not sure of your religious status, but as a Christian, it was always hard for me to believe that after living "a life of hell" or atleast a childhood of hell I would then be condemned to everlasting hell.  It doesn't seem right to me when your life has been so hard that you can't hold on for one more day - so you take your life - and then suffer true hell.  Many nights on the verge of suicide I would argue with God.  If I believe in You,  yet I don't feel the strength to go on, how could You punish me for this.  

Also, you are a good friend.  I once went 13 days without sleeping.  After about a week without sleep, psychosis and voices take over your head.  This ended in my one true suicide attempt.  Luckily, or somedays unluckily, I didn't get enough pills in me before I passed out.  Well, thanks for listening.  

-previous guest also known as flowers12

[Naomi]

Hi...

I have no religion. My grandparents believed they were beating it into me, but they actually beat it out of me. I cannot possibly believe in a god. To me, it is illogical.