A friend of mine past away this weekend. Hurt to think

[Dawning]

Here is an opportunity for you to turn a negative into a positive and help yourself at the same time. When you get caught up in obsessing about your ex-N, why not send the family a card, give the wife a call, see if the kids need anything? Having experienced the untimely death of my 25-year-old brother 7 years ago, I cannot tell you how much expressions of care and concern mean at a time like this.

Very wise words indeed.  It is akin to turning sorrow into compassion.  

Were you a stand-up comic?  How awesome!  Would love to hear more about it if you ever want to share.  Don't let these N's bring down your self-esteem.  As someone suggested, put down the phone or walk away if need be.  

Take care.

[serena]

Brain,
Very sorry to hear of your friend's untimely death. Tough as it must be for you, I can only imagine how his wife and kids are doing. Here is an opportunity for you to turn a negative into a positive and help yourself at the same time. When you get caught up in obsessing about your ex-N, why not send the family a card, give the wife a call, see if the kids need anything? Having experienced the untimely death of my 25-year-old brother 7 years ago, I cannot tell you how much expressions of care and concern mean at a time like this.

Best,

bludie

A girl at work is doing everything in her power to marry and have children with her 'gay' boyfriend.  She won't acknowledge this to herself although she knows!!!!!

I think Brian is in the same position in that he has 'idealised' his ex and created her into a fantasy woman.  On one level, he also knows she is a complete bitch and undeserving of his kindness.

To Brian:  I also think you have MAJOR unresolved issues around your father's sad and untimely death.  I really think you should get some help with this?
Good luck

[bludie]

ROTFLOL!

Hmmm~ I can see where such Freudian slip might fit though.

Childish and unappreciated. Please disregard this, Brian.

Getting back to your situation Brian,
Thank you for elaborating a little more around the circumstances of your father's death. It still sounds like very much of an open wound. You had mentioned a while back you were looking into therapy. I hope that is the case. Your sense of loss over your ex-GF and Dad seems all-encompassing and stands in the way of true happiness. Just think of what stand-up comedy you'll be capable of if you clear some of this emotional wreckage. I am continuing to wish you the best.

bludie

[Lara]

Hi Brian,
A few thoughts in connection with your situation. I have also been dealing with a relationship break-up, but mine happened over a year ago.
 Firstly, I agree with Bludie and the others who suggested that you show your concern to your bereaved friend's family in practical ways, and that this will help you as well. Shortly after my break-up, I forced myself to express interest and show kindness to my work colleagues, neighbours, etc. Because they are genuine people, they showed warmth to me in return and helped my self-esteem.In fact they made me feel as if I was a functioning member of society, at a time when deep inside, I felt pretty damaged and struggling to cope.
Secondly, was it because of the shock of your friend's death that you tried to contact your ex this week? In the early days I particularly missed my ex when something bad happened in my life, and thought that I could not cope with these emotional challenges without him. The trick is to get yourself through one or two of these challenges without the ex,either on your own or by looking to other friends for support. Then the next time life throws you a tough time, you will know that, amazingly, you can cope without the ex's 'assistance.'
Finally, please know that you will not always feel as bad as you do now. When I was at the three-month mark, I was doing the same as you are now, obsessing about the most hurtful things the ex had said or done...it was like constantly plunging a knife into myself. Suddenly, I'm not interested in doing that anymore,so I know that recovery is taking place.Yes, I still have confusion, which the great people here on this site are helping me work through, but I know now that one day I will be free of my ex's power completely. You will too Brian.Look on each of these difficult days as taking you forward, although it doesn't feel like it yet. And if seeing a therapist might help you, what have you got to lose in trying it out?

Sincerely,
Lara.

[bkkabri]

thanks everyone for your thoughts.  I feel this way with my dad and my ex because her conversations opened the wounds.  It wasnt her fault, she is just so into the elderly and their diseases that it started to open the wounds.  I never was insulting about her job choice, I just needed her to understand that my situation is different than normal and that talking about death in detail can be disturbing to me because I know what it is like to lose someone.  She has never seen a person die so she didnt understand.  Instead of being understanding, she was demeaning me as a weak person.  She makes me feel ashamed to feel loss.  I never leaned on anyone about my dad.  She said she loved me, so I leaned because it hurt.  I just dont understand why its ok for people to have emotions and I am not allowed.  I dont understand how a man a woman stay together and I dont have that ability to share in a relationship.  In the end, she was so cruel with her words.  Its amazing but she has had her house painted to look exactly like my condo, and when she saw what I did she said you know you have alittle of your dad in you meaning about being gay.  I am not gay, but it was a low blow to make such a comment.  I am not happy my dad was gay, but there is nothing I can do.  I just wanted her to be resectful of me like I was of her.  the only thing she said was that the man she marries will know that her job comes first and she will not come home with the intention of being a woman in the relationship.  I dont know what that means.  I want to be a couple with a man a woman and share the strengths each has to offer.  She makes me feel ashamed to be a weak man for having emotions for the loss of my dad and knowing that my brother is homeless.  Its a struggle trying to be normal with a good job and a house knowing that my family has problems and I feel the guilt of hopelessness with them.  I didnt ask for this family.  Thats why I seeked her out.  I want my own family where values are important and love is strong.  She offered the love for the first year and then just pulled it away.  I was the same man, she just kept "changing" right in front of my eyes.  I want the woman I met back.  She is the one I dream of and "idealize"  She  says this is my fault for insecurities and that she wants a man who will talk in detail about her patient load at night.  I thought we could talk in  detail about our lives and what we could do to enrich our lives and support each other.  I just want to hold her and have her hold me again.  I really miss that.  She could care less.  She would rather go to a pharmeusical party to act like we are high society.  I just know that if she was in another profession, this wouldnt have happened because talking about death all the time wouldnt have been the subject.  thanks again.  I retired from comedy because I dont want to look like a cartoon character to a woman and I dont want a joke to ruin a relationship.  Who knew joking around about fantasies would have made a girl buy me porn on christmas and flip out about other women everytime they came on television.  I dont understand she changed on me in such a dramatic fashion.  Everyone tells me that a beautiful woman who is 37 and never engaged or married is strange but I feel like I missed out on the opportunity to have the woman of my dreams because I said a stupid joke.  I hate myself inside for saying it.  I just thought she knew me enough to know I was kidding.  I really loved her.  I still do love her.  I know she is a bitch for doing what she did, but I feel like I failed her.  I wish I felt like she failed me.

[serena]

Brian

You really should print off your posts and re-read them.  You have a great deal of enlightenment about your situation but you are still persevering with your 'idealisation' of your ex.  You will not move on until you realise that you did nothing wrong, it's OK to have a gay dad, it's beyond sad if he died of AIDS and she was not there for you.

I'm sorry your brother is homeless too, I have an alcoholic sister who has caused me such personal worry and sadness that I don't know how to deal with her.  I feel her 'guilt' every day but know I'm not in a position to help her.

I only came to this 'place' with years of therapy and realising that none of it was my fault, that I was a valuable person and that we can't 'rescue' people no matter how much we would like to.

Wishing you well

[ResilientLady]

(((((Brian)))))),

I feel moved b/c I see your numerous posts as a reflection of your internal fights to let go your pain coming from the behavior of an Nwoman who happened to be in a relationship w/ you during one year.
We basically have responded to you : "detach, move on, stop focusing on her and rather focus on your own self, she is an N, you cannot do anything about that". You have read/learnt about N (and I am sure you have understood the dynamics of N behavior). Here are a few things that may help you validate the fact that she is an abuser and an N:

1. The facts that logically demonstrate she is an N
It took a lot of time for me to accept that people close to me were N, and I understand that it may take time for you. However since your last post (on a previous thread from you) I think I may able to demonstrate to you that, accordng to her actions/words, SHE DISPLAYS STRONG N TRAITS:  
1. She did not show any compassion/empathy towards a dying person
2. The dying process was long, and difficult b/c of the physical pain. Still she did not show empathy.
3. This dying person happened to be one of the closest person to you, i.e. your father. Still she did not show any empathy.
4. She was your gf at the time. Still, no feelings from her. She did not show feelings for you as any healthy gf would.
5. She tried to make you feel worst, by implying being gay was not a good thing. (according to your previous thread, she said sthg like "maybe you are a bit like your father").
6. She tried to define you (as abusers do) according to HER view, as s.o "a bit gay", (implied : therefore a bit bad)
7. She showed sadistic tendencies: at the time of your highest vulnerability, she tried to put you even more down, i.e giving you even more pain.
8. Finally, as a result of this, she tried to challenge your sense of your own sexual identity (impliying you were 'a bit homosexual'), i.e she challenged you own IDENTITY.

How do I call this behavior? Attempt of psychic murder.
How do I call the author of such a behavior? An N, maybe a future psychopath.
No wonder you felt shattered and ashamed, anybody would have in your situation. No wonder you feel angry. You have the right so.

2. How to detach

You need to let it go, and if you do not do this, know that you are inflicting your own suffering upon yourself, of your own free will. The good news is that you can stop anytime you want to!

I know, easier said than done, but here are a few hints that may help:
-depersonalize the situation (even if artificial at the beginning): do not talk about her as “your xgf” or as “her”, but as "a Woman who Displays Strong and Malignant N Behavior" (you can use WDSMNB acronym for example).
And more important, focus on the behavior rather than on the person.
-talk/think the least possible about her (when you feel a thought about her that is coming up, try to say to yourself "no I will not tyhink about this person").
With the internet / google:
-learn about emotional abuse (if you need books to read I can provide you w/ a few good titles). This will help you overcome your fear of having such a horrible thing happening again.
-learn about letting go techniques (like 12 steps, meditation/zen/yoga stuff..).
-learn about the Stockholm syndrome thing (why victims miss their abusers)

3. Focus your energy about the real issue

Do you think if you let go of this that the pain of what happened with your father will replace it and it will be time to face that, so hanging on to this could in a way be a protective thing staving off having to deal with the feelings related to your dad?

This is, imo, the CORE ISSUE.
I was wondering, if you could try to start expressing your feelings about your father in general throughout your life, and your relationships w/ your mother/siblings/family.
That could be a good start, and much more helpful than tlaking about the WDSMNB  

Again, Brian, b/c of the tenacity you showed in your postings, I am sure that you will start moving on at some point in time.
But, if I may say, please try not to let this tenacity get focused on the wrong person...

I would be really interested in your opinion about each of these 3 points. I hope I did not sound too directive nor impersonal   (I did not talk about my own stuff here b/c the post would have been way too long..), but I am trying to appeal to your logic and to help you (as the other posters) see your situation from a different angle...

Take good care of yourself and I send you lots of hugs again..

-RL

PS
-Maybe you could explore more the issue of sexual identity, and the identifying role of a Father for a Son.
Every human being has a feminine part and a masculine part.
-It is not b/c you had feelings about the death of your father that you are "weak" or "gay"!! You have them b/c you are a healthy human being!!!
-Maybe WDSMNB had a problem with her own sexual identity, and she was 'reminded' of it by the fact that your father was gay.
She would not recognize her own feminine part and project her angry feelings onto you and your father. Just a thought...
(Even if it were the case, that is IN NO WAY any excuse for her behavior).

[cindinj]

((((BRIAN))))

I lost my Dad on 1/17/05 just 3 weeks ago.  I'm still reeling from the pain and I'm sure my heart will ache for many years and probably forever.  I'm a 40 year-old woman, not a child, but losing a parent is devestating.  Losing a parent to a devestating illness without the support of the woman you love is incomprehensible.  I hope you have or find a therapist who can help you detach from this woman emotionally and find wholeness.  I agree that you still have some grieving to do over your dear Dad and I hope you can find the tears to do it.  My heart goes out to you...

Cindi

[bkkabri]

thanks for your words.  I am angry inside because my dad took so much from me when he was dying.  I had to quit my job to run his business, I couldnt have a relationship because he took all my time, he told me stories of committing suicide if he went blind, finding out after all the years of pain of not having a relationship with him because he was gay.  My mom looking me in the face and lying to me about why he was so distant.  I went to therapy for 3 years to get over it.  I was over it.  I meet a woman who is my age not married no kids professional and really into me.  We had so much in common.  Everything except the medical career.  I asked her if that was a problem.  She said doctors were boring because all they talk about is medicine.  I only told her about my dad and I didnt go into detail because I told her it was my past because she was talking about a person who had his legs cut off and he was going to die a slow death.  I let her know that sometimes these stories are too graphic for me and brings up memories of me in the hospital with my dad.  A tear fell from eye.  I told her I could talk about her day, but she needed to tone down the stories so that it was in english.  I never dreamed she would think I dont care about her day.  I am angry with my dad for those memories in my head because I could still be with my ex if I just listened to her stories and not made her feel like she couldnt talk.  Then all the issues started happening with the porn on Christmas, and insecurities about women, and now if you read the conversation she is telling me it was all my fault and that she deserves 80% of my time to nurture her and I should accept 20% of her time.  I am hurting inside because the cloud of my dad will always be there and I really wanted to experience the good in life again with somebody special.  Instead, she condemned me like he did.  I am not good enough because I make them feel bad about themselves because I cant solve their problems.  I am not a therapist.  I am a man who wants what everybody else wants-to love and be loved.  She ran off and is being loved, and why because I could not talk like a doctor.  She used me just like my dad

[ResilientLady]

Hi Brian,
I am glad that you answered on this thread...

Here is a question about things I did not get (sorry if I misunderstood some of your words, pls correct me if I am wrong):

My mom looking me in the face and lying to me about why he was so distant.

Do you mean that she knew he had AIDS and she lied to you about it? Or that she knew he was gay and she lied to you about it?
How did she react towards him when she knew (and after) he had AIDS?  

Here a few thoughts...

I couldnt have a relationship because he took all my time

he told me stories of committing suicide if he went blind

all the years of pain of not having a relationship with him because he was gay

It seems imo that you gave to your Dad all your time/energy b/c of the guilt you felt about not having a relationship w/ him after you discoverd he was gay. You tried to make up for it.
But the feeling you now have is just that you have been used by him through some emotional blackmail (guilt trip, threats of suicide..).

I went to therapy for 3 years to get over it. I was over it.

You may have gotten over the guilt about having rejected him when learning he was gay.
But now that you cannot not feel this guilt anymore, (since what you dreaded happened and since you had done your best to help him), you feel anger and resentement about him/you for having been 'used' by him, i.e. having felt so deeply guilty for an 'imaginary crime'. I think you just realize that the whole thing was never your fault and you spent all these years feeling responsible and sacrificing your life for it. And you are asking yourself : for what?

I can relate (in a less difficult context) to these feelings of anger/resentment about one's father. I too felt overresponsible (since I was told I was responsible) about the bad things that happened to my father. I had rejected him during my teens and then have spent these past ten years trying to make up for it (for what? for everything that went wrong in his life). I rarely received much in return from him, except a bit of comfort when he learnt I had a severe depression.

Now I feel also a huge anger / resentment against him, hard to not let it turn into self-hatred or self-destruction. I understood that he was not so different from my N mother and that both used me to throw/project their bad feelings or whatever onto me. I understood I WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 'IT'. A ll they did were guilt-tripping me..

But I do not want to spend the rest of my life having self-pity either. Most of my teens have been consumed by (self-)anger and trying to emotionnally survive. Most of my twenties have been consumed by guilt and trying to 'make up' and accept whatever abusive behavior (from them and also anybody else since I thought I deserved any abuse). So, of course, I now feel a huge anger/resentment : what right did they have to f*ck up my life????
But you know what? I will turn 30 next month, and I am not gonna let myself consumed either by anger nor guilt anymore. For a change. Their problems are their problems. Period.

As far as you are concerned , you can acknowledge that you have felt :
-angry that your father was gay
-guilty that you rejected him
-guilty that he was sick (and you in good health)
-angry that you felt guilty.
Then you may feel in the future guilty again for having felt angry (that you had felt guilty) at the time of his death...And so on...
I think at one point it's important to break this cycle of self-abuse (i.e this anger/guilt cycle).

At least this is what I am trying to do as far as my relationship w/ my father is concerned... As they say, it's all about 'the right distance' (whether the person is alive or not, it is the same process) : not too close (guilt), not too far (anger/rejection).
Maybe this is what they call detach or letting go??
Take care

-RL

[bkkabri]

I never resented my dad for being gay.  I resent him from stealing my life when I needed me to grow.  My friends all have marriages, kids, homes, and family.  I am 36, I have a condo, a job, no kids, no family, and no wife.  I really wanted her to be with me.  I thought we were going to get married someday, but she rejected me.  She told me she didnt want kids because she is selfish with her time.  I miss the good times we shared.  knowing that they really didnt mean anything really hurts.  She just never really cared.  I didnt tell her about my dad to be judged or to not talk about her day.  I told her because she opened an old wound, and I wanted her to understand that sometimes I cant talk about people dying in detail.  She doesnt want me because she said it was one sided.  Because she wants me to80% of my time over her giving me 20%.  Seeing a grown woman freak out about a television show is disturbing.  Having her buying me porn on Xmas morning is so harsh.  Xmas is a time to show how much you love somebody.  How much you care about them.  I bought her a palm pilot for her job.  She bought me porn.  I cant get her behaviour out of her mind.  The problem is she is with somebody new already and I wonder why he gets her and doesnt have to go thru what I did.  I wonder why he doesnt get porn or outrageous behavior.  I give up.  I dont understand why this happens.

[Wispery]

You can agree with me when I say that she was insensitive to your feelings...she sounds like a spoiled brat who didn't appreciate your love. Don't give up. There are people out there who will love and appreciate you for who you are. I still believe that she didn't deserve you, didn't understand you, and is a very shallow and selfish person to treat you the way she did. I say "did", because it's over. Now you have to move on with your life. Forget her. Sure things were good in the beginning...but aren't they always? Then the truth of their personalities begins to show itself to you. You must see this for how it WAS. It is no longer. You have to sever the ties emotionally to this woman, she was not the right one for you. Give yourself time to heal and learn how to love yourself. I know you can do it. If I did it, I know that anyone can do it.

[Brigid]

Brian,
You keep referring to the one conversation you had with your ex that created the end of your relationship.  No good, healthy, lasting relationship breaks up over one or 20 conversations, disagreements or even knock-down, drag-outs.  Over the course of a marriage, you would have had to sustain many disagreements.  Your relationship would not have been capable of that.  You did not have the formula for success.  You desperately need to find a good therapist to help you through the losses you have recently had to endure.  I just lost my mother in early January, so I totally understand how difficult it is to add the loss of a parent to the loss of the person you thought you would spend the rest of your life with.  

There is damage inside of you that needs healing.  It must be healed before you can ever move forward with a loving relationship.  You are still young and have plenty of years to build a family.  This woman did not want children.  15 years from now you would have so deeply regretted that you did not have the children you wanted and you were potentially facing a life alone with this selfish bitch.  You have so many reasons to be grateful that you are not saddled with this woman who could never have loved you the way you deserve to be loved.  But first you must learn to love yourself.  It is a hard lesson to learn, but oh, so necessary.

Brigid

[BKKABRI]

thanks, your words are very kind.  The reason I dont love me right now is because I have such a hard time understanding why people come to me and say they love me and then turn on me.  I just want what everybody wants-I hate that she ran off to another man and seems to have found happiness.  I know she has problems, but it pisses me off to know that this guy doesnt have to feel the pain she gave me.  She freaked on me because of who I am and the misunderstandings from her head.  All she cares about is her career, and the doctor gets her because he went to medical school.  thats what impresses her.  she even told me that she wants a man who makes at least as much money as her.  I make more now, but it is possible that she may make more someday.  I dont understand the competition.  I loved her for what she presented.  She used me until she found somebody better.  She even denies what she said.  I feel bad knowing that she didnt even care about the things I took the time to do for her.  It wasnt important.  It was a waste of time.  Just once I would love it if a woman could look at me and see that I am sincere.  I know I have an outgoing personality with comedy and stuff, but that doesnt mean I am out looking.  I just wanted her to be proud of my abilities.

[Anonymous]

I have such a hard time understanding why people come to me and say they love me and then turn on me.

Because you are getting involved with emotionally unhealthy people.When you do that you can only expect the Wild West.

Choose a different caliber of people and I promise you that won't happen to you anymore.  

The "Catch"--  You have to become a little different inside first off.  

Do you understand better now? Do you understand these ideas? What do you think of them?