Author Topic: Trusting??  (Read 2897 times)

Brigid

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Trusting??
« on: February 06, 2005, 03:53:04 PM »
I am new to this site, but finally needed to have a better understanding of the n personality that my therapist kept referring to. I was married for 22 years to a man that I believed was kind, good-hearted, a good father and husband, took his vows to the core of his soul and loved me. 18 months ago I found out that he completely had me and virtually everyone else in his life fooled. I found out he was having an affair with a married woman (although he lied to the therapist and I and said she was already out of her marriage. He also lied and said they had not been sexual), had been lying to me for at least 15 years about his disinterest in intimacy, saying he had a low sex drive, meds affected it, he was too tired, etc., etc. When he broke the news that he was leaving the marriage, he also admitted to having a very strong interest in pornography and would masturbate rather than be intimate with me. He reluctantly agreed to counselling for six weeks, but ultimately walked out of a joint session, drove home and put clothes in the car, said good-bye to his daughter and left. That was 16 months ago and we are still working through the divorce with no real end in site. We have virtually no contact with each other at all.

After his hasty departure, I discovered 20-30 pornographic videos, dvd's, books, and toys hidden in his closet and drawers and that was supposedly after he had done a major purge.  I had hundreds of  pornographic websites recovered that he had erased before leaving.  I had 40 viruses on my computer from those website visits.  I have intercepted credit card statements showing his purchase of hundreds of dollars of Victoria's secret underwear for his married girlfriend.  My therapist constantly has to remind me that now that he has no one around to monitor his behavior, that he could be sinking very deep into his addiction.

I have continued in therapy weekly with the man we saw as a couple. Thank God for Scott as he has saved my life. He spent 13 hours counseling my husband--6 alone and 7 together. Scott was the one to explain that my husband is an n and one of the worst cases he has ever encountered, and therefore is incapable of feeling badly about anything he has done, either in the past or present. It has taken me so long to come to terms with realizing that he was so not the man I thought he was. I have had so much anger bubbling inside of me that I cannot release because he will not have any contact with me. I know it is wasted energy to get angry with him anyway, but I keep thinking it will make me feel better.

We have two children, a son who is 20 and a sophomore in college and a 16-year-old daughter who is a junior in high school. Fortunately they are old enough to make their own decisions about how they feel about their father, what he has done and how much time they want to spend with him. Unfortunately, he went through a major cleansing process when he first decided to break the news to us and told his son all about his interest in pornography and masturbation. He left out the part where he denied me intimacy, leaving my son with the impression that I was the one denying his father. I had to correct his impression so he could truly understand what I was dealing with.  That child will definitely need some serious therapy someday.  He would have told his daughter too, but I stepped in and stopped him. Someday I will tell her the truth, but she is not ready yet. He sees her for an hour or so on Tuesday evenings and she is suppose to spend every other Saturday night with him. Lately, she is choosing to go over there later and later and come home earlier on Sunday. I worry about what he could expose her to since he has lost all sense of decency or morality (or the impression that he had that), but at least she has her own car and the ability to leave there if she is uncomfortable.  Amazingly, both kids are managing the whole thing pretty well so far with no recognizable signs of problems.  I have worked very hard to remain as stable as possible for them despite my pain and devastation.

I think that reading many of the entries on this website has helped me to see the futility of my continued anger and need to get back at him in some fashion. I like to think that someday he will regret the way he has checked out of his children's lives and the way he treated me, but I know that will never happen and there really is no way for me to hurt him back.

I am having to learn about a whole new world of sex addiction, n behavior, lack of empathy, and what it feels like to hit bottom and try to crawl back up. My children are my light and my therapist is my strength and hope. I really have no family and just had to deal with the death of my mother on top of the divorce. I think that has been a major setback in my healing process, in large part because of the way my husband chose to handle it. Instead of calling or even sending a card, he sent a typed letter which mainly dealt with how hard it was for him to have to write the letter, but he felt he must, yadda, yadda. I once again allowed this to hurt me since I thought he could at least show some sympathy at the loss of my mother. My therapist has to remind me that he CAN'T do that and I must stop allowing these events to get to me.

I look forward to the divorce being complete, but my n husband and his n father are in business together and hiding and lying about assets and income. Fortunately, I have hired one of the best divorce attorneys in town, who has hired a forensic accountant to try to stay on top of it all.

For those of you who are further along in the process, can you ever develop trust again? I was always a very trusting person and now feel like that innocence has been taken away and I question everyone and everything.
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October

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Re: Trusting??
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2005, 04:20:07 PM »
Quote from: Brigid


For those of you who are further along in the process, can you ever develop trust again? I was always a very trusting person and now feel like that innocence has been taken away and I question everyone and everything.



Hi Brigid

I am sorry you have had such a devastating experience, and lost so much of your life with finding out about this man.

I am not sure I am 'further along' anywhere, but what I would say is that it takes time to get over a situation like this, and you will probably never trust another person as completely again, but that doesn't mean that you can never trust anyone in any situation.  Just take it at your own pace, and take baby steps, and you will find that you do regain some faith in the people around you.  And you may find that you lose that faith over small incidents, which would never have bothered you before.  But take it slowly.

longtire

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Trusting??
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2005, 04:47:29 PM »
Hi Brigid, I read you post on the other thread as well.  Like October, I'm not sure that I'm farther along, just at a different place than yesterday.  I'm learning that I can't trust anyone else more than I trust myself.  That kept me from trusting anyone for a very long time, but is getting better for me every day now.  BTW, you may trust more than you think.  After all, you trusted enough to post your story here.  I believe you'll find THAT trust and courage rewarded.  As for others, trust when you are ready.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Anonymous

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Trusting??
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2005, 05:45:34 PM »
I believe you could trust fully again but part of getting there must be related to your own ability to see the truth in things and act accordingly. To act in a way that is having trust in yourself, first.

What I mean is- 15 years of lies, an affair, 30 porno vids found at home, hundreds of porn web sites found when he told you he had stopped things like that, and no doubt many more troubling behaviors. These things could have been easily found by you beforehand, and you were bound to have had some “red-flaggish” feelings many times about things he told you and many of his behaviors. We all often ignore these things and we get into trouble when we look the other way. I know we only do that because it’s painful and scary to face the truth.    

How this can help with future trust, is that if you meet someone and things seems strange, tell yourself that you will be sure acknowledge the signs and act on them by investigating and getting to the bottom of things. If you are not satisfied with the results and things still seem "off" then pull out before anything is really invested on your part.

When you do this process you will eventually come to trust in yourself and your judgement more, and also end up with someone else you really can trust.

Brigid

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Trusting??
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2005, 06:06:29 PM »
Guest,
I know that you are right and many of those things were right in front of me and for whatever reason I did not see the red flags.  That is what I beat myself up about now and my biggest fear as I try to heal and move forward.  I fear both not seeing personality issues in someone else and not being able to stop looking for the red flags.  I certainly was not the only person who thought this man was a really good guy with a very charming and funny personality.  In fact there is not anyone who I have talked to about my experience who was not completely shocked except my therapist, who read his personality dysfunctions from the beginning.   But that doesn't excuse my being so blindly trusting.

My therapist equates me to women who were abused by clergy (he is an Episcopal priest P/T and therapist P/T and deals with many of those cases).  I have seen the evil in this man, but there are still people out there who think he is wonderful and just decided he wasn't happy in his marriage and needed to make a change.  I want to take out a billboard stating all the things he has done to me so I never again have to hear someone tell me how much they like him.

Anonymous

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Trusting??
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2005, 06:26:02 PM »
No need to beat yourself up at all. The stronger your self esteem becomes the better you will be able to heal and to move on. You did nothing “wrong” whatsoever- you were just were you were emotionally-that’s it.Only work with your therapist to be in another place emotionally which is closer to where you want to be and what you want to have in your life in the future.

I know it is also so difficult that others have this completely inaccuate image of him, in his favor. It doesn't seem right or fair- does it. It is so easy for the abusing people to put on a facade for the small bits of time  when they are out in public. It is not easy to keep that facade 24/7 behind closed doors and that is the part that comes out with the partner and family, in private.

I hope you can work through your anger about that part in a way that works for you, with your therapist, too.

Take good care and please be kind to yourself right now. It will help you to heal in areas you want to, and it is really the time that you need "you" the most.

---
Same guest who wrote the message you are replying to, above yours.

mum

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Trusting??
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2005, 09:39:54 PM »
Oh, Brigid.  I wish I could just erase your pain.  I have heard different versions of your story from 2 colleagues/friends in the past few years.
You are not the lone ranger, if knowing that helps, I hope so.

My good friend is currently divorcing a man who has been into pornography and anonymous gay sex behind her back for years....and he is really big in his church, everyone thinks he is the pillar of the church community.  It is hard, very hard for her not to do the "billboard" thing you talk about right now.  She reminds herself daily, that the facade everyone believes about him/their divorce doesn't matter, but I understand how this is all such a bitter pill for her and you to swallow.

My other colleague divorced a man who (after years of lies and non-interest in her) admitted to being a pornography addict.  This was years ago, but she still has to share her 13 year old son with him, even though the boy really can't stand him, as the dad leaves him to go to porno shops while they are supposed to be together, etc.  She has had to go back to court a zillion times to fight the court order that the son see  the dad at all.  In this state, even a pervert's parental rights are protected, so it's been a constant source of concern for her.  Haven't spoken to her in a while, but I would be surprised if the son sees him at all anymore at his age (but not really as father's rights are paramount here, almost no matter what).  He is also a well respected and well known musician.  

Both of these women are not stupid, in fact they are two of the most intellegent, caring people I have ever met.  Thier one "flaw"?  They loved somebody who didn't deserve it.  That's all.  
They are in various stages of healing, but they are healing.  You will too.  Time really does help.  Stay strong.

bunny

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Trusting??
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2005, 11:16:40 PM »
Brigid,

One reason you didn't see red flags is that you are a reasonable, normal, respectable person who didn't expect to see these things. Your husband is a sociopath who can fool nearly anyone. Thank goodness you found a therapist who quickly caught onto him and who is helping you right now.

It must be horrible to have people telling you how much they like him. I can understand your longing to have justice served and for his secrets to be revealed. And who knows, one day they may be known to people. It could happen later, when your children don't want their kids visiting granddad! I believe that justice often is served, just not on our timetable.

hang in there,

bunny

Brigid

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Trusting??
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2005, 08:43:26 AM »
Thanks to all of you who have offered supportive comments.  I have certainly learned who my true friends are through this process and I'm sure I would want you all as friends too.  I am hanging in there because of my children.  I always want them to be proud of how I came through this and demonstrate for them that you can survive the adversities of life and become a stronger person.

I'm off to therapy.  Thanks again.

Anonymous

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Trusting??
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2005, 08:56:14 AM »
Dear Brigid:

Just keep coming to this site.  I am also in a different "spot" and have been making progress.  It is a slow process and will not happen over night.  I am sorry for the pain you and your children are experiencing.  It is still hard for me to trust individuals because I was also lied to by my N husband for about 15 years.  He was not the person I thought he was either.  I  had to get past the anger, the devastation of it and just focus on what was in the best interests of my child and myself.  

Just don't be hard on yourself for missing the "signs" of him being an N.  I did as well because I so completely trusted him, that he was doing everything in the best interests of our family yada yada.  It is hard to awaken and know this was not the case at all.  They are so very good a covering up, making you think it is your "twisted" thinking etc.  I think the therapist is correct in stating that after the divorce he will sink further into this sex addiction.   It will all come home to roost when the looks are gone, the children are grown, the health is failing............he will look at you and see how well you are doing and will want to come back.  There will be no one else to take care of him.  This is the way with N's.  Patz

bludie

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Trusting??
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2005, 09:29:22 AM »
Hello Brigid,
Thanks for sharing your story. What you've discovered and endured sounds awful. I had written a lengthy reply to your post and my computer 'hiccuped' and I lost it before posting. To briefly recap, I can relate to your story particularly on how to deal with the anger (because it's very understandable you'd be feeling that way) and how to build trust again after feeling so devastated.

I think longtire was correct about trust. It has to be an inside job. From the first I intuitively sensed that my ex-N-fiance might be risky business. I ignored my intuition, got swept away by his sales pitch, so to speak, and fell in love with him. In less than two years I completely lost my perspective and went from Towanda to a virtual Stepford Wife. There were many red flags along the way but love was blind. Also, we had joined forces financially (bought a home) so this made it more difficult to see the light and leave.

As for the anger, my experience is that venting or sharing it with him will only compound your problems. N's are empowered by knowing they can make us flinch, cry, get upset or angry. You're bound to feel anger over your experience. I hope you can share it with your therapist or supportive friends and family (or this forum). Internalizing it won't help but hoping for validation or contrition from an NPD-type is as probable as pigs flying.

My best to you in your journey. I am nearly 5 months into my healing. I cannot yet say I'm grateful for the experience with my ex-N-fiance. But I do wholeheartedly believe I will become a better person if I learn the lessons it's presented.

Please hang in there and be gentle as you wend your way through all of this.

Best,

bludie
Best,

bludie

Brigid

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Trusting??
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2005, 12:44:07 PM »
Bludie & Patz,
Thanks for the kind words.  I have certainly learned over the last 18 months that my anger, hurt, etc., does give him pleasure.  It makes me sick to think that someone could enjoy destroying the person who loved you for 22 years and gave you 2 wonderful children, but I have seen that reaction from him time and again.  My goal now is to be as indifferent as possible as we move through the completion of the divorce.  I have to focus on protecting my future and that of my children and make sure I get everything that is rightfully mine financially.  I have already dealt with the sale of our family home and buying a new home for the kids and I and all the painful memories that go along with that.  It is much better being in my own space that I have not allowed him to enter.  Every decision like that is a growth experience.  Its scarry to be on your own for the first time in 23 years, but it does make you stronger and you learn how to do things you can and hire someone to do the things you can't.  Having my son is a big help also, but he is gone at school a lot of the time.

I do feel like I am making some significant progress and as much as I know there will be setbacks along the way, I hope those become less frequent and recovery is easier and quicker.

serena

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Trusting??
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2005, 05:29:59 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
No need to beat yourself up at all. The stronger your self esteem becomes the better you will be able to heal and to move on. You did nothing “wrong” whatsoever- you were just were you were emotionally-that’s it.Only work with your therapist to be in another place emotionally which is closer to where you want to be and what you want to have in your life in the future.

I know it is also so difficult that others have this completely inaccuate image of him, in his favor. It doesn't seem right or fair- does it. It is so easy for the abusing people to put on a facade for the small bits of time  when they are out in public. It is not easy to keep that facade 24/7 behind closed doors and that is the part that comes out with the partner and family, in private.

I hope you can work through your anger about that part in a way that works for you, with your therapist, too.

Take good care and please be kind to yourself right now. It will help you to heal in areas you want to, and it is really the time that you need "you" the most.

---
Same guest who wrote the message you are replying to, above yours.


N's are spectacularly good at being "street angels and house devils"... I know this from experience with my mother.  Her acquaintances think she is wonderful!!  She doesn't have friends............  

Also your post about loss of innocence was sad, be grateful that you have that innocence and you will trust again.

Stay in therapy!!  Your kids are lucky to have you.

cindinj

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We are all so different...
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2005, 10:02:09 PM »
I don't believe anyone can tell you whether you will be able to trust again.  I believe we can all do a lot of healing, therapy is a great place to be for that and so are places like this.  

I'm so sorry about the very sad end to your marriage.  I hope that beside the anger, you are able to grieve this, too.  

Wishing you wholeness.

Cindi