4 phone calls and 4 voice mails from ex-N today - I'm mad

[Lara]

Hi Bludie,
I have just logged on and I'm shocked at what you have been going through. My heart goes out to you,and like the others I am full of admiration for you.Despite being so shaken, you are behaving with such dignity.
On the other hand your ex is behaving like a toddler in a supermarket who can't have the chocolate bar he wants at the checkout. His true colours are really showing now. I don't know but hopefully this will be his final flourish and then you can focus on your recovery with no manipulative intrusions from him.

Thinking of you,
Lara.

[Anonymous]

bludie:

Call your lawyer and tell him to get a restraining order whatever.  I remember when a friend of mine divorced  her N bipolar.  She would have the neighbors saying to her that the N was parking in the early morning AM hours, stalking her house.  They knew this because he was parking outside the neighbors house.  They would have to go out at 3AM to tell him to leave, or the cops would be called.  It is useless to cope with this guy.  He needs a cop to land a 2 x 4 up side his head. He will get the message when it really begins to cost him.  No more nice nice Patz

[bludie]

Hello all,
Again, your support has been invaluable. Thank you. Trying to explain this to others who have never lost their "voice" is futile. So coming here and having others know exactly what I'm experiencing is more than comforting. It's solace.

The PD captain in my community told me that a formal report hadn't even been filed last night He hemmed and hawed a bit then conceded that one should have been filed. They are remedying the situation and a report will be on record. If my ex-N persists, I can press harassment charges. Won't bat an eye. I'll just do it. I'll call the cops. I HAVE NOT been pole vaulting over mouse turds. Anyone who continues to call 5 times after a police warning is, at the very least, off balance.

I also contacted the local domestic violence agency. This ticked me off because after watching my mother's abuse, I swore I'd never repeat history. Anyway, they will help me file a civil order of protection. That way if he starts calling again or shows up (he said he'd be back in a couple weeks to move the rest of his belongings from storage) I am armed with a reason to call the PD and have him hauled off. (You're right Patz. No more Missus Nice Nice).

I am exhausted. I am sad. I ran on adrenaline and high alert for many hours and the older I am the longer it takes to recover. I'd like to shoot myself for saying this but it's key, I think, in understanding the "hooks" that got me here in the first place.

Now that the phone calls have stopped, and he is likely on his way out of town, I am let down and deflated. Go figure. It's not that I want this insanity but in a very pitiful way it's attention. My ex-AM flew the coop and started a brand new life within a couple weeks of our breakup. I, on the otherhand, have been painstakingly walking through the gamut of emotions. Starting up another relationship is THE LAST thing I'd want to do now. Even though I was the one to say bye bye, he was primed and ready to leave. I am still sad that I've been so easily replaced. I don't want him in my life but don't want to feel disposed of either....It sounds lame as I'm writing this but I wanted to let that go. Shame or no.

So the crisis has passed. I managed to get through the business day but life has a surreal quality again. I wonder how many days it will be until life normalcy returns. And then when it does, will he be back for another round of crazy-making?

My outward demeanor has been angry and tough. Inside I am broken-hearted and disquieted. This too shall pass. Thanks again all.

Best,

bludie

[Anonymous]

bludie,

I'm glad you took those steps to protect yourself from this sociopath. Sorry the police were lame about it, though.

I can understand being deflated after all the drama and hearing his voice so many times.

Even if he was shallow enough to move on to another woman, it doesn't make him better off than you. I'd say he is seriously f*ed up and his life is a chaotic mess. He also seems to need money. He's seriously dysfunctional and the woman who has him now is setting herself up for disaster. This isn't about winning a prize. It's more like stepping into a booby trap.

I'm glad he's gone and hope once he moves all his pitiful belongings, that he won't be back.

bunny

[Anonymous]

He also seems to need money. He's seriously dysfunctional and the woman who has him now is setting herself up for disaster. This isn't about winning a prize. It's more like stepping into a booby trap.

So true. Getting that knowledge to work its way from my head to my heart is the bottleneck (literally   ) but I'll get there.

He's living the high life. Large egos cost money to inflate with props, properties and materialism. When we first moved in together I watched the stream of major purchases: house, cottage, car, boat, large soundproof music room -- all in the span of 4 or 5 months. It was wild. Even though my one income is less and I'm in school my checkbook balances and I don't feel deprived. Too much information, perhaps. It was the farcical world he lived in and tried to show off for all the world to see. I was just another prop in the grand scheme.  

Whatever. I'll cry tomorrow. Scarlett was right. Rhett just ain't worth it!

bludie

[mum]

Bless you Bludie.  I'm sending you peace of mind, calm and relief...and some good sleep.  You are wonderful.  Repeat after me: I am calm, I am peaceful, I am powerful and secure....  There is always an emotional let down after a rush of "survival" adrenaline.  Nothing wrong with you at all...you're just a fully, functional, feeling woman ...and he's an F---- nut case (add your own F's: fun for the feeble minded!)
Relax a bit....breathe...  You are still my hero today.

[onlyrenting1]

Bludie,

I had to get out to work, didn't have time to post much. I was getting a negative feeling on the Idea you wanted to help with money.

I'm reading other posts here and would agree go to court have him fight for the money. You give an inch to him he will want the whole mile.
Keep up the way your going. You can be angry, its what gives you the energy to protect yourself.

I will write later got to go for now

Onlyrenting

[Anonymous]

bludie:

From: "Narcissism, Denial of the True Self" by Dr. Alexander Lowen:

Behavior that is injurious to or destructive of others can only be fully understood in terms of the denial of feling, the goal of winning, and the image of power.  Executives who exploit their employees and con artists  who swindle elderly pensioners operate on the same principle.  Both fail to see others as real people; in their eyes, others exist only as objects to be used..  Specifically, the elderly pensioners are not seen as human bengs, because the swindlers don't see themselves in human terms.  They live by their wits and are indentified with their ability to otsmart or outmaneuver others.  That they lie or cheat is unimportant to the goal of winning or thier ego image of superiority based on their ab ilty to put one over on the other person.

bludie:  I think this N falls into this catagory.  He will only understand fire with fire.  He does not see you as a person with feelings.  You are an object standing in the way of his desires.  He wants your money, he simply thinks he is deserving of only the "best".  He is living by his wits.  He uses people like kleenex.   The greasy wheel gets the oil.  Make sure the police have every report on hand.  It is sad, but you have to advocate for yourself.  It will take energy (and yes it made me feel really drained and old as well) but you must and you will prevail.  Much love, Patz

[bludie]

onlyrenting:

I was getting a negative feeling on the Idea you wanted to help with money.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, onlyrenting. I know you're in the midst of your own private hell, so I appreciate your taking time to respond. I don't want to help him with money so much as to alleviate my guilt (founded or not). I truly want to move on, learn and grow from this. Anger, guilt or shame will hold me back. So I will take time and try to discern the best way to proceed on the financial issue. Fact is, I was emancipated before turning 18 years of age. My social worker actually arranged for me to live elsewhere before I was legally an adult. Anyway, I've always tried to be self-sufficient. Truth is I wouldn't be in this home if my ex-N hadn't contributed toward the down payment. Yes, yes, yes. I can tabulate all I've lost financially and what he left me with (a big debt) but am still not able to get past the fact it was his money, plain and simple. Maybe I'll change my mind. Everyone I've talked to says I don't owe him. For the time being I'll do nothing. But I have made a decision to tuck away some money each month in another account. When I've accrued what I feel is a reasonable settlement, I may contact my attorney (and we're talking a couple years from now unless an unexpected windfall occurs) and have him send this on my behalf to my ex-N with an agreement that all debts (moral or otherwise) are paid in full. This will help alleviate my guilt for now but not propel me into another emotionally-laden decision.

He will only understand fire with fire. He does not see you as a person with feelings. You are an object standing in the way of his desires. He wants your money, he simply thinks he is deserving of only the "best". He is living by his wits. He uses people like kleenex. The greasy wheel gets the oil.

This is so unfortunately true, Patz. Knowing this intellectually seems to only address one part of the problem for me. The other part seems to be of a spiritual nature. I won't get too trippy here. But I've been asking myself what the spirtual lesson in all of this is. So far I've come up with only more questions. But I would like to get to a point where I can truly in my heart think of my ex-N-fiance and feel: "Live and be well." That will come in time. For now, as all of you have wisely advocated, I am doing a CYA through the legal system.  

Best,

bludie

[Anonymous]

Truth is I wouldn't be in this home if my ex-N hadn't contributed toward the down payment. Yes, yes, yes. I can tabulate all I've lost financially and what he left me with (a big debt) but am still not able to get past the fact it was his money, plain and simple.

You mean, it's okay for you to lose your money [because of him], but he shouldn't have to lose a penny of his money? There were financial consequences to his choices but he feels entitled not to pay a dime of them. I would keep the house and enjoy every square foot of it.

and have him send this on my behalf to my ex-N with an agreement that all debts (moral or otherwise) are paid in full.

Your ex-N won't think the debts are paid in full. I think you're wasting your time taking the high road with a sociopath. My philosophy would be to get away from him, no contact for any reason, not even through an attorney, no matter what. And give the money to some charity. He's a very scary person. I'd want him to forget I ever existed.

I think a sociopath has little fragments of caring about someone but they can't sustain it for more than a few seconds. This isn't about your worthiness in his eyes, it's about your worthiness in your parents' eyes. That was the problem.

bunny

[bludie]

This isn't about your worthiness in his eyes, it's about your worthiness in your parents' eyes. That was the problem.

Ouch. That hurt, bunny, because it's the truth. I'm in between appts. but logged on quickly and had to respond. I may post another thread to give this thought due diligence. It may very well be the crux to the "hook" that's snagged me (or I keep snagging myself on) in this and other situations.


Best,

bludie

PS - bunny, you seem very certain about his sociopathology. What facets from my posts substantiate this in your estimation? I am not questioning it. I am just very curious and want to learn more. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

bludie,

I am not certain he's a sociopath but I believe he is one. A sociopath is a type of narcissist who is extremely predatory, mercenary, and uninterested in fairness, legalities, etc. They want money and material things and they will get them no matter who they destroy, con, screw over, frighten, etc. In fact they get gratification from doing bad things to others. They also enjoy doing things that are illegal or shady and getting away with it.

His threatening phone calls to you; especially his calls to others to discredit you, and creepy phone calls from others at his behest, lead me to think he won't hesitate to take what he wants. He isn't easily discouraged by legality or the police. Hence, I'd prefer it if he lost interest in me and saw me as not worth his trouble.

bunny

[Anonymous]

bludie:

I have an excellent book at home entitled "Who's Pulling Your Strings?" by Harriet B. Braiker, Ph.D.  It is a book on how to break the cycle of manipulation by sociopaths, borderlines, narcs, and others that we currently deal with.  I found a particular chapter that has so info that might be helpful.

Labeling the Manipulation:

As long as the slient contact between  you and the manipulator remains in tact, the power of the manipulation will as well.  However, whey you disrupt the collusion and reveal the hidden agenda by clearly and directly labeling the interaction as a manipulation, the power balance will realign in your direction.  The essence of this reistance is for you to describe in direct language exactly what the manipulator is doing. By describing the manipulation OUT LOUD,  you will go a long way toward disrupting and ultimately foiling the manipulator's purposes.  The best way to analyze the manipulation is to use what I refer to with my patients as the "ABCD formula."  This model will help you to identify the connections between the manipulator's tactics and your feelings.  

Behavior A:  When you do (describe what the manipulator does that you find unpleasant, hurtful, or uncomfortable  (in your case the multiple phone calls, interrupting your day  etc.)

Emotion B:  I feel (state the emotion you feel).  This makes me feel so frustrated because we have been over this situation before and there is no need to rehash it.

Alternative behavior C  I fyou would stop doing (the calling etc, demand for money) and if you would instead do (concentrate on your life and what you brother is going to need).

Emotion D:  I would feel (that we are both moving ahead with our lives)

Here is an example form the analysis of one of my patients who had a highly manipulative husband.  Here is what she said to him:

A.  "When you raise your voice and yell at me,
B.  I feel afraid and anxious
C. If you would just stop yelling and ask me what  you want in a calm voice,
D. I would feel a lot more respected and valued."

Bludie I am not sure any of this matters at this point with your N, he may not care how you feel, but alternatively this may be a way to handle the phone calls next time.  I feel that the phone calls are clearly designed to "wear you down" to get what he wants, because he has no other avenue to obtain his objectives.  They are designed solely to badger you into submission.  Make him really work at it.  When he calls:

I need some time to think about what your saying.  I'll get back to you just as soon as I can.  Then hang up.

This issue deserves some real consideration, so I'll need a bit of time to think it over, and I'll let you know as soon as I can.  Then hang up.

I can't give you an answer right now.  I will certainly think it over, and I'll get back to you as soon as possible."

I 'm not in a position right now to answer that, but I will get back to you when I am.

This is an important issue, and I will need some time to give it thought it deserves.  Then of course, I will, get back to you.

Just never back "to" it.  Make him work at his manipulation.  Better still put it on your answering machine it he insists on using your phone.  Alternate the above responses.  He only gets the answering  machine with these little ditties and never really gets to speak to you. Hah!  Patz

PS   I lately used one of these latest responses on my shark stock broker. Truly worked.

[bludie]

Thank you so much, Patz, for giving this some thought and taking the time to pass along this technique. You have me curious as to what clients you work with or your line of work....

Anyway, I will print your step-by-step method, and the excellent sound bytes, to have on hand if/when he calls. Yesterday I felt better after some sleep and the fact the barrage of phone calls had eneded. Today I am not doing as well. I almost have an auditory echo -- a visceral litany -- of things he said perambulating through my mind. Yuck.

I think it (contact) may be over. Maybe wishful thinking but something tells me it is. He sounded so defeated in his last couple of VMs (You win, bludie. Take it. You've now managed to steal over $--thousand dollars from me. You say you live a spiritual life. You say you try to live honestly. This proves that you don't." Sorry for going on and on a little here but it helps to purge this toxic stuff from my head.

He further went onto say that my friend, whom he phoned late in the night when so clearly inebriated, said that my ex-N should let it all go. That I will suffer in the long run because my dishonesty will "eat at me a little bit every day for the rest of your life."

For over 4 months I either hung up or ignored his calls, quickly erasing the voice mails (some without even listening to). I was hypervigilant about no contact because:

I was too hurt and distraught
Afraid I would lash out, say reactionary things I'd regret
Allude to how emotionally trashed I had become over HIM (this would have fed his ego big-time)
Perpetuate the tit-for-tat or he-said/she-said cycle[/list:u] Perhaps I should have tried to discuss things with him. Too late now. My no contact method may have reinforced his conclusion that I was trying to rip him off. It wasn't that at all. It was sheerly self-preservation and a huge awakening that no matter what I said, it would fall on deaf ears.

Again, thank you for letting me elaborate, here. The emotional hang-nail I am wrestling with this morning is whether to contact my friend (the one he phoned late in the evening) to try and ascertain if there really was a discussion. I had very much valued this friend's opinion and insight throughout the five years I knew or interacted with he and his wife. It could very well be that my ex-N was totally lying. If I call this friend to confirm the situation, I am very afraid I'll learn that he does side with my ex-N. This would reinforce my insecurity on whether I have handled this okay. I am trying to break the lifelong habit of needing others' approval to feel okay.

Not sure what to do. Perhaps nothing at all. Just sit with the feelings and allow them to pass. Thank you very much for listening and any feedback is very welcome.

Best,

bludie

[mum]

Bludie: I am not clairvoyent, but I believe you are at the end of this.  Like a chicken with it's head cut off (sorry, I'm vegetarian, but that image works) he will continue to lash out (your friend "contact") but eventually drop dead (wouldn't that be nice?).
I think you should follow your gut NOT to do anything out of emotional reaction right now.  It all will pass. When you are calm you may or may not want to contact that friend, for now... let it lie.  It doesn't matter anyway.  The real stuff, the true stuff, you know already.  Your life is about how YOU feel about things.  You are doing so well.