does it ever get better?

[Anonymous]

I've been struggling for years with the whole voicelessness issue.  My mother was a classic N, and I find that I am emotionally paralyzed as a result.  Oh, I get up, shower, and go to work.  I have a very dear husband who tries as hard as anyone can try to help me.  He understands the issues very well.  I am blessed in that, and I'm grateful for it.

But here's the thing:  I want to move.  I want to make progressin my life.  My therapist says, take it slow, you've done a lot more than you realize.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  But does it ever get better?  Will I ever be able to set goals and believe in the possibility of achieving them?  It's not so much that I'm afraid to fail.  I think, rather, that because I "know" I will fail, trying seems like a huge waste of energy.  It seems pointless.  And then I get to the point where I feel that everything in my life needs changing, and I couldn't possible do it all, so I get very depressed about that.

If I've learned one thing in therapy, it's this:  For me, the sense of powerlessness and futility--which is always directed inward as self-hatred--is almost always anger that couldn't find anywhere else to go.  I am tremendously angry at my family, for a host of past and present reasons.  I never express that anger to them, but whenever something unpleasant happens (as it did recently), I end up spiralling downward into this really ugly place where nothing different is possible and I can only serve my time until I die.

Is there any way to break out of this?  I know a lot about the what and the why, but I can't seem to make things turn out differently.  I can't seem to get away from this.  Has anybody found a way to break free?  I honestly don't think cutting my family off would help much.  It's not that I can't deal with them, or that I don't know better than to buy what they're selling.  I think that I've internalized everything so completely that it doesn't really matter whether I actually speak to/see them or not.

I don't necessarily need to evict them from my life, but please...does anybody know how to evict them, and all their attendant baggage and messages and negativity, from my head??

[longtire]

I've been struggling for years with the whole voicelessness issue.  My mother was a classic N, and I find that I am emotionally paralyzed as a result.  Oh, I get up, shower, and go to work.  I have a very dear husband who tries as hard as anyone can try to help me.  He understands the issues very well.  I am blessed in that, and I'm grateful for it.

Welcome, you are very fortunate to have found someone who is willing to understand and help you.  Lean on that resource as much as you need.  Let him know how much you appreciate his support.

But here's the thing:  I want to move.  I want to make progressin my life.  My therapist says, take it slow, you've done a lot more than you realize.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  But does it ever get better?  Will I ever be able to set goals and believe in the possibility of achieving them?  It's not so much that I'm afraid to fail.  I think, rather, that because I "know" I will fail, trying seems like a huge waste of energy.  It seems pointless.  And then I get to the point where I feel that everything in my life needs changing, and I couldn't possible do it all, so I get very depressed about that.

My experience with therapy has always been that its too fast for me to feel comfortable and too slow for me to really see that I'm getting what I need.  I wonder if that's the mark of a good therapist?  Only very recently, I've started taking things 1 day at a time, and that helps limit how much I try to deal with.  Its OK to plan ahead and anticipate tomorrow's needs.  I have problems when I start to worry or obsess about tomorrow and start to "feel" tomorrow.  Reminding myself that "I can deal with tomorrow tomorrow, I've got enough to do today" helps to put some of that back down.

If I've learned one thing in therapy, it's this:  For me, the sense of powerlessness and futility--which is always directed inward as self-hatred--is almost always anger that couldn't find anywhere else to go.  I am tremendously angry at my family, for a host of past and present reasons.  I never express that anger to them, but whenever something unpleasant happens (as it did recently), I end up spiralling downward into this really ugly place where nothing different is possible and I can only serve my time until I die.

Is there any way to break out of this?  I know a lot about the what and the why, but I can't seem to make things turn out differently.  I can't seem to get away from this.  Has anybody found a way to break free?  I honestly don't think cutting my family off would help much.  It's not that I can't deal with them, or that I don't know better than to buy what they're selling.  I think that I've internalized everything so completely that it doesn't really matter whether I actually speak to/see them or not.

I don't necessarily need to evict them from my life, but please...does anybody know how to evict them, and all their attendant baggage and messages and negativity, from my head??

I think that you've already expressed part of the answer here.  It sounds like you've tried to supress your anger and that doesn't work.  It sounds like you'e turned part of it against yourself, and that's just made you sick.  It sounds like you've learned all about it and knowing doesn't help.  You've probably already tried expressing this anger to your family members, but I imagine that was not not successful and probably provoked hurtful reactions from them.

It sounds like you HAVEN'T been able to openly and fully expressed the anger you're holding onto.  Express it here, I think you will find many people who understand and will support you.  Express it to your husband and therapist.  Express it to your friends.  By express I mean say how you are feeling, not talk "about" feeling angry or how you got that way or what it means.  Just let those feelings out.

I am in the middle of learning this myself.  Don't talk "about" myself, just share what I think and feel.  Its not easy to get started, but has helped me tremendously.

[joannwllc]

Hi,

I empathize deeply with you.  My mother is at least in some aspects N. I suffered all the usual: depression, suicidal ideation, complete sense of failure.  My 20's seemed to be the worst.

I can't tell you how you will get better, only that you will because you want to.  You will find your way.  I can't even give you a step-by-step of how my own progression went.  I did some therapy. I wrote in a journal for years.  I did keep my distance from my mother in my 30's.  I didn't break contact, I was just busy a lot. The distance helped.

The most important step I took was going back to school.  What that did for me was offer me a place where I was treated as an individual.  At the time I didn't even think of myself as an individual, but as a daughter, a mother, a wife, etc.  The me, that was uniquely me, was lost to me.  School helped me to find myself.

Going back to school was scary, but I began one step at a time, one course at a time.  Before I knew it, I had graduated.  School is also demanding, it helps to keep  one focused.  The decision to go back to school accomplished a lot for me.  I was treated as Joann on my own merits, I was doing something for myself, and success motivated me to keep moving forward.

Take one step at a time.  Find something to get involved with that is for you alone.  It doesn't have to be school, but I think it is important that whatever it is, it is for you alone, not for you the wife, mother, daughter, sister, etc.

The journey is very long.  I wish it were not, but for me it was.  Eventually, the depression lifts.  And you will know when it does.  For me, it was as if a a veil had been lifted from in front of my eyes.  The colors of the world were actually brighter. Then one day I knew with a certainty who I was as an individual. No doubts at all.  I could separate who I was from who my mother was.  Now I like myself.  I know myself.  I accept myself, warts and all.

It is very sad that the first half of our lives we spend surviving our environment and the second half recovering from the first half.  But, do not doubt it, things will get better.  Try not to get discouraged.  You can thrive.

About the relationship with your family.  I would not presume to give adivise here.  We are all different and our experiences differ.  I will share with you that for me, in the end I could not maintain much  closeness with my mother.  But, that is my choice.  You will know what is right for you when the time is  right.

Now my journey is to try to understand Ns.  I wish I had known about this sooner.  But then, the right time is always now, isn't it?

I wish you much sunshine  on your journey.

Jo

[Guest_NewDay]

HI-
Your post touched my heart b/c that feeling of being "stuck" and incapable and unable to move forward in life is something I have struggled wtih as well.   You do sound very self-aware and so, so wanting to improve yourself and your life, that to me, is why it will happen!  You will make it happen, I believe in you!  But how?  This might sound simplistic, but with your therapist and on your own, list what you mean by 'moving forward' and changing.  You said you feel you need to change everything about your life.  What do you mean?  Your physical space?  Your physical health?  Your job?  I believe that any one of us would be overwhelmed to tackle too much at once, so after you create the list, you need to FOCUS on ONE thing.    Figure out the steps for that one area of your life to change, and implement those steps, one at a time.  Pick something that is not too daunting at first, so you will set yourself up to succeed.  I  have read that many of us get feelings of self-defeat because we do not break things down into bite size pieces.  

When I was trying to move forward, I did one thing at a time.  I am into physical fitness, so the first class I took was a yoga class, since I had been wanting to learn.   Then I began tennis lessons, that took me a lot of phone calls and planning and I finally made it happen.   I also began to take some classes in other interests I had, and when I told people about them, they were so happy for me b/c they could see how happy I was with  myself.  For taking the steps.  For doing something for *me*.  

So try to begin by breaking things down.  You will succeed, I just know it.  And with one success, another will follow.  That sense of achievement and momentum will set you on your path.  
Best to you and keep your chin up.
Terry

[bunny]

Welcome, Guest.  

But here's the thing:  I want to move.  I want to make progressin my life.  My therapist says, take it slow, you've done a lot more than you realize.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  But does it ever get better?

I think it already has gotten better because you realize that you're struggling with internal parents more than the current, real-life parents. That's a huge realization that gives you something to reflect on when you see it happening. There is plenty of time to accomplish things in life. What is the first thing you want to see changing? One of my first changes from a child-like helplessness was learning how to cook. I had no idea how to cook a meal. I'd always picked boyfriends who did the cooking. The family myth was, "bunny can't cook." Well I can. And it had seemed improbable to me at one time.

If I've learned one thing in therapy, it's this:  For me, the sense of powerlessness and futility--which is always directed inward as self-hatred--is almost always anger that couldn't find anywhere else to go.  I am tremendously angry at my family, for a host of past and present reasons.  I never express that anger to them, but whenever something unpleasant happens (as it did recently), I end up spiralling downward into this really ugly place where nothing different is possible and I can only serve my time until I die.

It seems that you go to a place of utter hopelessness and despair because no one understands, no one cares, no one is helping you contain and process powerful feelings (early experience being re-lived and triggered). Has your therapist helped you express some of the anger through venting, or describing dreams, or something? Have you ever gotten angry with the therapist? (that would be a good sign)

Has anybody found a way to break free?  I honestly don't think cutting my family off would help much.  It's not that I can't deal with them, or that I don't know better than to buy what they're selling.  I think that I've internalized everything so completely that it doesn't really matter whether I actually speak to/see them or not.

Until my late 30's, I struggled with inordinate feelings of anger and irritability that were easily triggered. I'm now in my late 40's.    Anyway, what helped was: journaling, therapy, reading about anger (Anger: The Misunderstood Emotion by Carol Tavris was eye-opening), reading about managing emotions (Handbook to Higher Consciousness by Ken Keyes helped me although it's very 60's), reading about other people's dynamics and how they operate (Personal Power Through Awareness by Sanaya Roman really helped even though it's a "new age" book). I learned how to process emotions rather than acting out or beating myself up. I am also on anti-depressants which helps incredibly. I don't think the baggage can go away entirely as it's in our neural system at this point. But it can be diminished so much that it only causes a ripple.

Good for you for thinking about this stuff, and keep posting!

bunny

[Anonymous]

I don't know if any of this will help you but I can tell you what helped me. My brother is a horrible N. I am starting to think my mother has got some of these issues as well, although not nearly as bad as him.
When I severed my business relationship with my brother he declared war on me.
My wife and I were both terribly depressed and paralyzed by the destruction he brought to us. What helped us was the following;
 
1. Our faith in God. He took a mess and brought us closer to each other(we were already very close) and he brought us closer to Him.

2. We were ostracised by our family as they believed his slanders. This got us out of their orbit of hate and manipulation.

3. We decided to build a case of defamation, breech of contract etc to seek justice in court for the damage he has done. This gave us a healthy avenue to direct our anger; at the source of our problem. These were concrete finite steps we could take rather than wallowing in our hopelessness.

Now obviously you may not be able to do exactly those things but the principles can be shaped to your situation.

I especially question your statement that you don't need to cut off contact with them. Right above that statement you say that something unpleasant recently occurred with them that plunged you into a downward spiral of hopelessness. Why not try cutting them off and see if it helps? If it doesn't you can always go back. These people (Ns) are nearly always willing to bring a victim back into their orbit. You say you have a wonderful husband. Why not cut them off and only have contact with the wonderful people in your life and the sources of your happiness rather than the bums? Don't forget your contact with them and the harm it causes is not only affecting you it is affecting your husband as well.
Don't ever give up. It will get better if you simply don't give up. Positive action is best but just treading water is better than giving in to hopelessness. Time may not heal all wounds, but it gives time for a scab to form if we get away from the people who keep the wound open.

[bkkabri]

I am lost inside about my life and why things happen.  I am searching for answers to questions, and I dont know where to begin.  I like you am so angry for all the hurt I have been thru.  I know people on this sight are tired of my story, but realize the full circle of events that haunt me.  I was in therapy after my dad died for three years.  I grieved, cried, felt the guilt, the memories of watching a person waste away.  The memories of having to take care of somebody who never cared for me and struggling because I know I am a person with a heart and let the problems we had past because when your dying, problems dont seem to matter.  The circle with my ex is that I leaned for the first time with somebody who I believed had the capability as a medical professional to understand the hurt I was feeling.  I didnt just bring it from nowhere.  I brought it up because her conversations were so matter of fact of death and pain and suffering.  she spoke in medical terms, I listened as a caring person who can feel the pain of the people and person suffering.  I thought my request was justified and respectful.  I thought my ex would have the ability to be empathetic to my story and why I need to tone down the conversation into basic english.  To her the person dying was a day on the job, to me it was saying goodbye to somebody you care about and know you will never see again.  You never get to sit and chat, you never have a phone call, or even a hello just thinking about you.  When I found out that my ex felt the way she did about my dad and his death, it broke the wall I built to move.  I hate her for it.  I loved her and shared a personal thing with her.  Not to compare notes or who has it worst-to express I was having a human moment and I could really have used a shoulder to cry on.  Not with tears, just with understanding.  Understanding that the only dad I will ever had died in my arms and that stories about death and disease in great detail fog my mind with old memories.  I respect wht and who she was-I just needed to tone down the conversation to the basics-listening to a 33 year man losing his legs just before dinner can really cause hit to your system.  I am sorry I have been angry, I am venting at times because I want peace in my life.  I want the opportunity to have what my peers have-a home.  A place to feel safe, and secure.  My ex made me beleive I had that with how perfect she said I was.  to turn on me all because I cant give 80% of my day to nurturing her drives me insane becauseI was there 100% and she didnt even see it.  I know its her problems that caused her actions, but I dont feel safe and secure anymore.  I feel lies and betrayel.  Again, I am sorry for being upset, I am just so pissed to see her with somebody right after me knowing that she is acting like she did in the beginning.  I know it will be a matter of time for her to lose it, but the problem is the woman walking around who said she loved me left me because I didnt meet her needs no matter how unreasonable.  Ijust wish I walked away like I did in the beginning.  I just didnt want to fail her or my love for her.  It kills inside to know she never loved me.  My friends and family dont understand what she said, I have to accept the words were said, but to lash out on my dad dying is like taking a knife and slowly cutting away at my soul.  Again, I am VERY SORRY for being angry.  I just want peace.  I am seeking another therapist.  Thanks for listening

[Anonymous]

Guest:

It does get better.  I learned a long time ago with my n relatives that if I had no "expectations" then I would never be disappointed.  I also limited the amount of contact I had with them.  It was a hard thing to do but my emotional health depended upon it.   The realization they not only represented an unhealthy way to live, but it was unhealthy environment for me to visit it in.  When you come to terms with the fact that this is what you have, then you can move on to make your environment which is nuturing to you.  Patz

[Anonymous]

I read through these replies, and I have to say that the generosity of spirit shown here moved me to tears.  I'm so grateful to everybody who took the time to share their struggle.

I'm really glad to know I'm not alone in this.  This struggle seems lonely, selfish, and difficult for others to understand sometimes.  But, as you all know, it just happens to be essential to my survival.

Thanks again.