hi y'all, how's everyone doing?

[write]

Just checking in. It gets longer between my posting so I guess my life is finally moving on, so take hope anyone who's still in a horrible place.

Ex-h is in therapy & doing well-that makes a big difference.

I don't have much time, but one of the posts caught my eye was about revenge etc.
All I can say from my experience is that I'm glad I did that 'turn the other cheek' stuff and didn't turn our separation into a battleground.
With a n that's pointless- they will fight you to the death, they can't handle 'losing' or walk away like other people.

We can't do a marriage but we are very close and after a year things are settling down to pretty good family dynamics. All our communication skills have improved.

The other thing I wanted to say was about new relationships, I've barely dipped a toe in the water really- but have already attracted the attention of 3 abusive/ dishonest men.
I've been reading everything I can about relationships and trying to learn what it is I do that this keeps happening: and it seems to be that I ignore the 'red-flags' and my initial feelings of being uncomfortable or hurt. I grew up in a family where everyone was extremely unpleasant to each other and I wonder if I desensitised early on to those feelings which tell you when a relationship is equal and acceptable.
So I'm working on that now & decided to stay single for some time and build my own self-esteem and career and health.

[Anonymous]

I ignore the 'red-flags' and my initial feelings of being uncomfortable or hurt

Keeping that in mind, you'll make a lot of progress fast. No one else can hear you/respect your feelings if you can't hear you/respect your feelings first!

All I can say from my experience is that I'm glad I did that 'turn the other cheek' stuff and didn't turn our separation into a battleground.
With a n that's pointless- they will fight you to the death, they can't handle 'losing' or walk away like other people.

Truth is, it's pointless with anyone - almost anyone, in a heated disagreement, will play tit-for-tat, if someone in the game doesn't choose not to play. Excellent choice.

_________________

Gald to hear all is going well and that commmunication has stabilized. Improvement is more possible than most think. It has been for me and my husband (reconciled), as well. Good therapy is key, for both parties - whether you stay together or apart.

Best.

[write]

I don't think reconciliation is on the cards...but who knows down the line. The psych told him it will take years to unlearn patterns of behaviour and he'll probably go right back to square one if we were back together, which is exactly what happened on other occasions.

I've done a lot of therapy and go back occasionally if I need support or want to regroup.

[Anonymous]

Go woth your gut.

Every situation is unique. In my case, we do experience backsliding from time to time, but he's still in therapy and back to the joint therapist we go if it gets out of hand, which usually sets things right quickly. Of course, we've only separated once (for a year).

It's not easy, but we're both learning to listen to ourselves and each other.

[serena]

I love to hear the good news posts.  Well done and I am delighted that your ex has enough awareness to want to change.

You have already enough of a BS detector to know who is the wrong man for you - keep that up and you will find someone wonderful.

[Blue Topaz]

I've been reading everything I can about relationships and trying to learn what it is I do that this keeps happening: and it seems to be that I ignore the 'red-flags' and my initial feelings of being uncomfortable or hurt.

Glad to know things are going well, and that you are making great decisions for yourself, write.  

What you wrote above is so key!  It is initially ignoring that first flag, then one gets hooked a little more into the relationship & their fantasies of what they want, instead of what is really before them.  Then the 2nd, 3rd, etc. flags are ignorned and one gets hooked in, more & more.  

So I do think walking away very early when it just doesn't feel right (and I believe we all can recognize that intuitive feeling) is really important.

Also, not getting so caught up in the idea so early on of "is he is Mr. Right".  I've noticed that women (with exceptions of course) more than men, tend to meet someone and right off the bat, start imagining a whole romantic scenario with them in terms of long term fantasies. "The white picket fence" or what kind of father he would be, etc...   Whatever it is that is their romantic ideal.

These things are fine down the line, but not before one has even had a first date.  I was doing just that, and I still have to deliberately change my thoughts.  If I have a repour with a man & I know he is going to ask me out on a date soon, I start imagining him driving the 5 hours with me, visiting where I'm from, meeting my family, etc.

I have to literally firmly tell myself S-T-O-P. (old habits die hard!)  If one is not aware of it, this kind of thinking can be a powerful precursor to ignoring the red flags, and getting into yet another relationship of pain illusion, and delusion.   This is because it is the extremely powerful fantasy of seeing what you want to be true about the other person & the way they will be with you, without really knowing anything about them yet. The over focus (not "normal" goal path thoughts) on how we want the relationship to go can block from seeing the truth of what actually is going on in front of us.  

Again- glad things are going well.

BT

[Bloopsy]

---damn I needed to hear this wowsers--- I was wanting to write something about attracting and not seeing the true faced of abusive/dishonest men but I was having trouble figuring out how to write it down. I can really relate to attracting these men --- I feel like it is what I do best. I have been hiding out in the house for about one year so during that time didn't meet any men. Then I left the house started to go to AA and met this guy. I guess I'll write about the story please don't read if you find this kind of thing boring but I feel like it might help me to write it down.
Anyway of course at first he seemed charming and sweet and goofy. I ignored then the red flag sign that he reminded me of my ex the love of my heart ---whenever I meet someone that reminds me of someone important to me they turn out to be like a sort of evil twin so far. So far this has happened 2 times now going on 3 -- an abusive guy who reminded me of my friend who killed himself who was the sweetest soul on the planet and wouldn't hurt a fly but I was drawn to the creep because of the uncanny resemblance . Then the same thing happened after m y father died by then I had smartened up a little and had foreboding feelings but ignored them and got involved with a liar and junkie who reminded me of my dad. I feel like this guy is  in the line of threes because he may symbolize the flip side of the third most important man in my life, my ex boyfriend Calder who had the best and sweetest heart but from what I have heard and felt and he ( the guy I am currently trying to convince myself away from) has even said that he does not believe in hearts. I of course jumped into bed with him and led him to believe that I like to be dominated, which is partially true but I exagerrated in order to please him (of course LOL) . I actually don't think that I like to be dominated I think that I just feel more comfortable in a slightly abusive setting because I'm used to it. I admit that I used to wish that I had a man to abuse me so I could stop doing it to myself. But when I come home after being with him I feel like I really have been abused and emotionally there is no line between fact and fantasy or if there was it has been crossed. It is hard for me to stop seeing him because I feel so useless and  at least he has a use for me. I realized this on the train tonight. My therpaist used to hold a sign up in front of me that said you are not garbadge. I guess I haven'tt learned that yet. I want to keep away from him. I know that he is manipulating and using me but I secretly just want him to take care of me.  Anyway here in black and white I am writing that I know that he is treating me like crap and will continue to do so and from here on in the particpation or not on my part is with the full knowledge that if I participate in this relationship I am participating in my own abuse AND I KNOW IT.
Love,
Bridget R, a person not a cum dumpster

[bludie]

Write,
So glad to hear that things are moving along in your life. I am hoping to have some significant signs of progress in the near future. This episode with my ex-N-fiance has been very draining and occupied over two years of my life. I want to be done with it and move on - heart and soul.

As for dating again, that would be an iffy prospect in the very distant future. I am very scared that I will either be hypervigilant and over-analytical with a new prospect OR continue to miss cues and ignore red flags. Maybe not. I think I've learned quite a bit from this episode. But bunny pointed out that my motivations still stem from childhood feelings. I found that rather depressing but true. I've spent nearly 20 years examining the impact of my childhood. I would like to think the relationship with the ex-N wasn't so clearly tied to my past.

Anyway, Bloopsy, I am glad you're evaluating your current relationship carefully. Participating in our own abuse is so destructive. In my opinion, for right now anyway, it is much better to be alone than dabbling in a relationship that reinforces negative or hurtful patterns.

Blue Topaz, I'll be very interested to hear how dating goes for you. It is so important not to project and I think you're right. Women jettison into commitment-oriented thinking far sooner than men. It sets up expectations that are either never fulfilled or, as you suggest BT, detract from our awareness of what's really going on.

Best,

bludie

[mum]

Bloopsy: I have a niece who is (once more) trying to recover from severe drug and alcohol addiction.  One of the programs she was in a while back (and I'm sure they all share this "rule")  strongly advises recovering addicts to NOT get into romantic relationships for a LONG time (a year maybe?).  Why?  Because the person needs to focus on themselves, get to know themselves, because relationships can be yet another way to LOSE/HIDE from themselves (and can lead to more self abuse).  In my niece's case, she got into one almost immediately and it was with another recovering addict.  Well, he started using, stealing, and went to jail....and soon after, she started using again.
      I send her images of herself as healthy and clean and in love with herself all the time now, not ones of pity.........I will do the same for you.
     You are god-like, you are the essense of the divine.  We all are.   You have stated what you are not (a dumpster) but do you know what you are?  I believe we are all pure love....that is our essense.  Focus on that for a while.  Our life "stories" (experiences, actions, choices) are all there to get us to realize this at some point....they are not who we ARE....they help form us and that is why we WANT to own all of it, but they are not our true selves.
YOU and your life situation are two different things.  Focus on YOU.
Men (especially ones who make you feel the way you feel) are not the answer.  Choosing a partner only works for us when we know and love our true selves.
Bless you!  Sending you love.

[bunny]

write, welcome back. I think everyone attracts losers, but the women who have it together just get rid of them much faster.  

bloopsy, It must be tempting to get close to men who remind you of loved ones. Also to get them to enact the feelings you don't want to enact yourself. Unfortunately these men have their own agendas, their own fantasies. And they probably aren't in attunement with yours. That's too dangerous. You aren't garbage. You're just struggling. A big difference! You're very insightful about this situation.

bludie, I don't think the childhood stuff is expected to be dealt with completely. I see myself reacting to my "parents" in others all the time. The main thing is that I now see myself doing it. When I didn't see that, I got myself into icky situations and overreacted, etc.

bunny

[bludie]

bludie, I don't think the childhood stuff is expected to be dealt with completely. I see myself reacting to my "parents" in others all the time. The main thing is that I now see myself doing it. When I didn't see that, I got myself into icky situations and overreacted, etc.

Spot on, bunny.

It's been a revelation for me this week in many respects. As I may have conveyed in previous posts, I have some boundaries on my interaction with blood relatives. I love my mother in so many ways. Have worked through the 'how could shes?" of my childhood but was amazed at her questioning why I contacted the police with my ex-Ns rash of phone calls. Here I am, almost 46 years of age, and starting to shame spiral a bit. But just as quickly I broke that old thought pattern and calmly but firmly told her I did do the right thing. She back pedaled and said she hadn't realized he was actually in my town when making the threats, etc.

Point is, my mother minimized so much of my dad's abuse that it was natural, I guess, to do the same with this situation. May not sound very profound to anyone else but I realized that I'm truly breaking free from some patterns in my family history. Like you said, bunny, I am leaving losers quicker. Now if I could be healthy enough to attract non-losers, boy, what would that feel like?

Best,

bludie

[Blue Topaz]

Blue Topaz, I'll be very interested to hear how dating goes for you.

Bludie,

Very sorry to see what has been going on with your ex.   And I really can see how profound your realization re. your mother's minimalizing is. It's  amazing when we can see the links & understand exactly why people say what they do to us, or behave the way we do.  

There is also another thing to perhaps consider as at least a "maybe".  Your mother, seeing you stand up for yourself and react more strongly than she ever did, might feel a little bit "shamed" herself, and therefore think it part of her "defense" or "saving face" of having been so passive in the face of her own abuse, to question your actions.

In other words, kind of like a reaction of trying to portray the abuse that happened to her as less serious (so she does not have to feel ashamed for having put up with it) by questioning why such a big deal has to be made of it in your case.

As you know    you definitely handled the thing with you ex. in the right way.

On another note, I can tell you one thing...  Dating for me has, and will go very slowly.  I have not been in a relationship since it ended with my N-traited ex a year & seven months ago.   I have gone on about 2 date-ish kinds of outings in the last 6 months, but I quickly knew they weren't something I wanted to pursue further.  Not because of red flags but because I knew they just weren't suited to me.  In the past I would have ignored that feeling and tried to meld myself to fit  the things someone else liked in order to try for the relationship, rather than honor who I really was and walk away from a "relationship opportunity".  

Take care,

BT