Divorce suggestions?

[longtire]

mum & Brigid, I realized that it is NOT better to stay in the marriage for my daughter in the current environment when I listed all the reasons that I felt like I HAD to stay.  It is actually hurting her to feel the tension and hatred in the air and to see a married couple that doesn't want to have anything to do with each other.  Besides normal teenage life, I believe this is why my daughter leaves the house every chance she gets.  I want to show her this is not a healthy situation and there are better, wonderful, ways to be in truly intimate relationships.

I've started getting everything organized and ready.  I've got a list of all the documents I need to copy.  I need to take pictures or video of the house and all belongings just in case things start disappearing.  In the meantime, I'm working on the best case and worst case divisions of the major stuff and looking at different scenarios about who, if anyone keeps the house.  My goal is to tell my wife on Monday or Tuesday next week.

[mum]

Longtire:
When I left my first marriage, it was horribly scary for me, added to the usual fear that situation brings, was that I was terribly afraid of my ex: his rage, anger and emotional abuse.  I remember vividly the day, after I discovered that the "girl" I thought he had left was still in the picture (amazing, he had no qualms about still lying to me).  I was terrified and kept walking in circle saying to myself" "do it, just do it" and then repeating to him  in a calm manner, "I want a divorce.  It no longer matters what you say to me".  He was shocked that he couldn't talk his way out of it, but no one was more shocked than me.  
I don't doubt that you will be able to deal with this... good luck.

[bkkabri]

Longtire, sorry to see this happened.  I read all your posts and realize that my situation was not as bad as yours, but it would have been if I stayed.  I broke it off first, not because I didnt love her, but because I knew she didnt love me.  Somehow I wound up with her again and she let me have it.  There is no worst feeling in the world than being told by someone you care about that you are the problem and inside you know you did good things for them.  I am looking  for a better therapist, but I would like to ask you man to man somethings I cant share on the board.  If you would like, please see me at bkkabri on AOL.  I am truly sorry you have this happening.  I dont understand where these people come from, but it is unfair to anyone who met no harm, and only love for their partner..  I read your post and your beginning of your relationship is exactly like mine except I was the outgoing person.  In some ways, I feel like she left me because she didnt like the fact that I was getting attention in comedy.  If I did good, she never complimented me for it.  Now I feel like I am N because I wanted my needs met too.  Does that make sense.?  I want to be an equal in a relationship.  Thanks for your posts.

[longtire]

mum, I know I can handle it, but I'm in a crappy mood today.  She won't talk me out of it this time, because, she never did.  I always talked myself out of it before.  I KNOW that won't happen this time.

bkkabri, I am "longtire2" on Yahoo IM.  I'm at my computer at odd hours in the evening, but keep trying.

[mum]

Lontire (others):  I just noticed a book that I will order called
"Splitting/Protecting yourself while divorcing a borderline or narcissist"
by William Eddy.  Look it up.  He discusses his background on his website and considering what I went through in court with my exN, I definately will read it before the next go round.
www.eddylaw.com is where I found it/him.

[serena]

Longtire

I have read and responded to you on the other thread.  I personally find it sad when any marriage comes to an end but I feel you have made the healthiest choice of your adult life.

I am overjoyed that your priority is your daughter, and I'm sure this will remain the case.  You are also very generous to your wife in allowing her to remain in the 'family home'.  Like others have said, make sure it is all legal - have a 'clean break' financially.

Also, I want you to know that we are all rooting for you from afar, you have friends here.  I hope once the 'mess' of the divorce is sorted out, you can emerge as the person you deserve to be.  It won't be easy, it's like emerging from a 'chrysallis' and re-entering the world.  Don't be in a hurry to meet somebody else.  Enjoy the time being single and spending time with your daughter.  You never know what might be just around the corner.............

Kindest thoughts

[longtire]

mum, thanks for the book recommendations.  I may postpone initiaing the divorce until I can get and read both the splitting and negotiating books.  "The persuasive blamer" that describes my wife perfectly.  She even had me persuaded at one point.  Fear that no one would be able to see through her has kept me in this situation a long time.

serena, I'm not happy about ending this marriage, but the more I learn, the more convinced I am that this is the only way.  I'm committed to taking care of myself first, since no one else can.  Second only to that, I'm committed to not just taking care of my daughter, but breaking "the family curse" and helping her heal as much of her family issues as I can and as she is ready for.

I so appreciate all the support I get here.  I wouldn't be doing half as good right now, or have found all these helpful books without suggestions here.  Thank so much to everyone out there who reads this thread, whether you post or not.  I have found a source of safety and support here that is invaluable to me.

[longtire]

Here I was, all resolved, and a friend shared his experience with me and I'm questioning again.  I haven't been considering a separation, legal or informal, because I don't see what good it would do.  Yes, it would give me time to think if this is the right decision, but I've already decided that.  Maybe it would give her time to reconsider her choices, but honestly, I think it will take several years of intensive therapy for her to get to a point where I could live with her again.  Who knows where I'll be by that time?  I usually move too late becasue I sit around and analyze every angle before I take action.  I don't have a history of jumping too quickly or impulsively with things like this.  

Do you have any experience with separation, either legal or informal?  Did it help clarify things for you?  Change your mind?  Change your spouse's viewpoint or behavior?

[bunny]

I think you are looking for reasons to postpone the evil day when the s***  hits the fan. If you want a legal separation, do it so that you can get away from her. Not to ponder whether the marriage is over. You've already made the decision. Your friend's experience is irrelevant, as he has his life and you have yours.  If you're super honest with yourself, do you want to stay in this abusive marriage for the rest of your life, or even for one more year? If you can answer that question, you will know what to do.

bunny

[Anonymous]

" I think it will take several years of intensive therapy for her to get to a point where I could live with her again"

What evidence do you have that will EVER happen. I have a very good psychologist friend who is an individual and marriage counselor. She says when she gets a narcissist she pretty much is resigned that little or nothing will improve. She merely hopes that she can manage some small part of their behavior. These people almost invariably get worse not better with time.

"I usually move too late because I sit around and analyze every angle before I take action."

Me too. It reminds me of the old joke;
Patient- "Doc, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor- "Then don't do that."
It also reminds me of one definition of insanity; Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
You know your situation. Your heart and reason have both told you what is best for you and your child. Do not be dissuaded by lame advice when you know the right thing to do.

"Change your spouses viewpoint or behavior?"

Get real, if your wife has NPD she will not change. And you will ruin your life waiting for it to happen.

[Anonymous]

Sorry if that last post was a little harsh. After rereading I thought maybe it was. But I too waited too long, hoped my N would change and was easily side tracked from what I knew was right. I don't want to see the same thing happen to anybody else.

[longtire]

I choose not to be in a marriage with a woman who is unable to be intimate with me because she is too afraid.

How do you like this for an "I" statement that declares what I think about the situation?  I just came from my therapy appointment, and my therapist helped me frame this up.  He said something like "Marriage is a contract and you can't break that based on how you feel.  You CAN break it based on what you think."  In other words if you're reactive, angry, sad, etc. that is not sufficient reason to break it off.  You need to work on your behavior and reactions in that situation.  If you have looked at the situation and don't believe it meets your needs, then you have a right to break the contract.

This is what I've been looking for, a way for me to understand the situation without being "bad" and feeling guilty.  I think that is why I have been bouncing back and forth so much recently.  Its relatively easy to say you want to get divorced if its driven by anger.  Its harder if you can see both sides and see the situation realistically.  BTW, my therapist suggested adding the "because she is afraid" to the end to help keep from getting angry about it.

As for the separation idea, I don't believe it makes any sense in this situation.  I was more curious if anyone had tried and whether it had any impact one way or another.  Its sort of a moot point now...

Ahhhhh.....(sound of relaxing)

[Anonymous]

I choose not to be in a marriage with a woman who is unable to be intimate with me because she is too afraid.

Sounds good to me.

He said something like "Marriage is a contract and you can't break that based on how you feel.  You CAN break it based on what you think."  In other words if you're reactive, angry, sad, etc. that is not sufficient reason to break it off.  You need to work on your behavior and reactions in that situation.  If you have looked at the situation and don't believe it meets your needs, then you have a right to break the contract.

I think you can leave a marriage based on how your think combined with how you feel. Obviously feelings are going to be part of the decision. If you feel miserable all the time, and your thoughts say the situation cannot change, why would you stay there and suffer endlessly. We only get this one chance at life.


bunny

[mum]

Longtire:   Whether you still need the stories or not I don't know, but I did do a brief trial seperation from my first husband.  We had kids together, so I really thought I ought to wait a bit to make a decision, but I was so hurt and angry over his betrayals that I couldn't stand him in the house.  He was going to "dump" his newest affair, and demonstrate his devotion, supposedly.  After three weeks, I uncovered that he did not end it with this girl (the eveready battery of liars)........so that was that, I filed for divorce.
My second husband and I had both been married before, and although there was no betrayal or anything, we could see clearly that it just wasn't going to work, and that neither wanted to try any more, so we just parted rather unceremoniously.

You just have to decide what you want.  I said this to someone else on this board: it's okay to not want to be married to someone anymore.  You don't have to wait until they have killed someone or cut your legs off or any other "horrible" thing that makes it somehow less guilt producing for you.  We all get to be happy.  It's our purpose in life.  I'm not advocating frivolity in ending relationships, but my God, you certainly are not taking this lightly, and you know that.  Go ahead and make happiness your goal. If it means no marriage, then so be it.  Married people need to have the same goal for it to work.

[longtire]

He said something like "Marriage is a contract and you can't break that based on how you feel.  You CAN break it based on what you think."  In other words if you're reactive, angry, sad, etc. that is not sufficient reason to break it off.  You need to work on your behavior and reactions in that situation.  If you have looked at the situation and don't believe it meets your needs, then you have a right to break the contract.

I think you can leave a marriage based on how your think combined with how you feel. Obviously feelings are going to be part of the decision. If you feel miserable all the time, and your thoughts say the situation cannot change, why would you stay there and suffer endlessly. We only get this one chance at life.

I expressed this poorly.  Yes, feelings inform your thinking and your decisions.  You can't seeparate them out somehow from the whole experience.  Well, actually some unhealthy people like Ns appear to do that, but thats beside the point.  The point was to look at your own emotions, take responsibility for them, and feel them yourself.  Don't blame the other person for your reactions.  Once that is done, then you can make a healthy, emotionally-informed decision.  Does that make more sense?