Author Topic: Do they mean what they say...?  (Read 4046 times)

vunil

  • Guest
Do they mean what they say...?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2005, 07:03:07 AM »
Quote
The trouble is I think he believes everything he says. He believes himself to be totally genuine when he is being loving, and equally thinks his abrupt "about face" when he is angry is perfectly reasonable and rational because "he is hurting". It seems that he has an amazing ability to justify all his thoughts and feelings as being perfectly rational because, after all, they are HIS!! I don't know if this is the case with others, but it is definitely the case with him.


This has been my experience for the most part, too, that any indication to them that what they are doing may be one millimeter off the mark of sane (or nice or whatever) just results in a grandiose explanation of why they are in fact extremely perfect in their reactions, often with very detailed "evidence" for their position (usually the evidence either is untrue or incomplete or just makes no sense).

Your tears story reminded me of an exboyfriend who, after he made me cry, would tell me that if I loved him I would stop crying because my tears were "bumming him out."   I sort of seemed like your ex was erasing the evidence of the hurt he caused you, because he didn't want any traces of something negative about him.


On the other hand, I have some narcissists who seemed to know it and relish in it.  One of them had been told he had NPD by an exgirlfriend and told me about it, in a bragging way.  He thought it meant that he was superior because he knew how to lie and deceive better than others, so he got more.  And in a way he was right (he did get what he wanted, in the NPD sense of want).  He felt his sense of superiority, as reflected in the symptom list for NPD (which he knew and agreed he fit), was perfectly reasonable given his fabulousness.  

I'm not sure which kind is worse.  One unexpected wrinkle is that I think that the full-blown NPD guy did go get help and is better now, or at least I hear he is (I avoid him utterly).  Maybe he just says he is!

mum

  • Guest
Do they mean what they say...?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2005, 10:51:58 AM »
Cadbury: your story reminded me of so many things about my ex.
He used to prod me with ridiculous accusations and keep contradicting himself just to watch me get frustrated.  Then when I would break down in tears and anger he would say "what a baby!"
He chased me out to the car one day, while I was 8 months pregnant, having just loaded my toddler into the car, late for full time work as well, to yell at me for leaving crumbs on the counter....you know, just to make sure he set the tone for my day!
I do believe that he really thinks what he does and says has merit, even when he knows it's ridiculous.....then he turns it into: well I'm just f---ing with you, and look how upset you got...hahaha.  I thank God every day I am not married to him.  
I wish more than anything that the courts could see what kind of person he is, but I don't hold my breath. I understand my best option is to let go of trying to expose him and learn how to be happy no matter what.  I stay hopeful that he will expose himself in the end....ie: my kids figure him out.

Chandra

  • Guest
Do they mean what they say...?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2005, 11:54:58 AM »
Quote
The trouble is I think he believes everything he says. He believes himself to be totally genuine when he is being loving, and equally thinks his abrupt "about face" when he is angry is perfectly reasonable and rational because "he is hurting". It seems that he has an amazing ability to justify all his thoughts and feelings as being perfectly rational because, after all, they are HIS!! I don't know if this is the case with others, but it is definitely the case with him.

This has been my experience for the most part, too, that any indication to them that what they are doing may be one millimeter off the mark of sane (or nice or whatever) just results in a grandiose explanation of why they are in fact extremely perfect in their reactions, often with very detailed "evidence" for their position (usually the evidence either is untrue or incomplete or just makes no sense).


I can't tell you how much this describes my exN. He is a good writer and wrote gargantuan emails. When he abruptly broke off the engagement, and then a few days later, the entire relationship, all via email, I got multipage emails, single spaced, justifying and rationalizing his behavior. He thinks he understands himself so well and seems so proud of his insights into himself. But, he seems to only remember what he is feeling in the exact moment he is feeling it because he is full of contradictions. I could probably write a book just listing his contradictions alone. (One example is that during the break up, he wrote that we should no longer have a physical relationship because "that is a sacred act reserved for someone you are married to, at least in your heart." Then, from reading his emails, I saw that he was on the net trying to find shemales to have sex with and even hired male and female "escorts" to have sex with him and videotape it.) From this board and books, I've learned that their thinking is disordered and there's no point in trying to make sense of it.

As for wondering why we get seduced in the first place: I met him on an Internet dating site and the first two weeks of our relationship were email and phone calls. (He lived in another city). I was actually sharing some of his emails with my close female friends, wanting them to know that I'd met someone special and, perhaps, for a reality check. My friends, who are all stable, educated, middle aged women who love me were all impressed and taken with him. Only one suggested I slow things down. The rest encouraged me to go for it. I think my N was so good at expressing himself that his flattery seemed so genuine. He wasn't just complimenting superficial things like my looks, but he was describing in great depth what he loved about my character and the person that I am. We shared some strong values (or so it seemed). He came across as the exact opposite of superficial.  He seemed deep, spiritual, empathic, evolved, etc..etc... I actually thought it would be a sign of poor self esteem on my part and an ungratefulness to the Universe if I questioned what he was expressing to me. I thought, here's a man who values in me what I most value in myself. I mistook him for a soulmate and his words (AND ACTIONS) strongly reinforced that image of who he represented in my life.

I am going to start another thread about Ns and spiritual/self help literature. My N is a follower of Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations with God books and I think he has taken the metaphor that he himself IS god to a Narcissistic extreme.
 
Chandra

vunil

  • Guest
Do they mean what they say...?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2005, 12:12:03 PM »
Quote
I am going to start another thread about Ns and spiritual/self help literature. My N is a follower of Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations with God books and I think he has taken the metaphor that he himself IS god to a Narcissistic extreme.


What a wonderful idea!

bkkabri

  • Guest
Do they mean what they say...?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2005, 01:11:40 PM »
Cadbury-thanks for your post.  When my ex was breaking up with me she started touching my face like a person would do during a loving moment.  I asked her why is she touching me now when I asked for that for the last six months.  Her contradictions were so messed up.  I asked her why she ever dated me and she said "I usually am not interested in men like you.  Your the only one who ever made me feel good enough to let my hair down."  I cant believe it.  I thought that was a good thing.  She makes me feel so conned.  All she kept saying was I cant believe how perfet you are, and now I am nothing to her.  Who do you ever know.