Are there varying degrees of Narcissism?

[mary up a tree]

I met somebody who I immediately connected with 6 months ago and then we started seeing each other quite frequently.  We both expressed strong emotions for each other from early on but agreed that we should take things slowly.  This all seems quite normal but then we are still in the same position today and he has used all the most beautiful rhetoric to immobilise me, to hypnotise me and hold me, frankly, at a distance but never letting me go at the same time.

I had a strange sense that he had a particular interest in mothers, I am one.  He is especially intelligent. He has a band and believes unequivocally that they will be a success.  But he is in no way aggressive, nor is he posturing and I don't think he is a liar or a fantasist- the band seem very good...And, crucially he seems very empathic.

Are there varying degrees of Narcissism?  And also, I was wondering if anyone knows what happens if two Narcissists fall for each other (although surely this is impossible!)?

[Anonymous]

Hi!

Are there varying degrees of Narcissism?

Yes, for sure. Some Nism is healthy.

And also, I was wondering if anyone knows what happens if two Narcissists fall for each other (although surely this is impossible!)?

Not impossible. Search 'covert' or 'closet' N.

'Why is it always about you?' - a good book to determine if he is or if he isn't.

[mum]

Mary up a tree:  I'm sure there are varying degrees of narcissism...like everything else.  Labels can be useful sometimes, but the bottom line is this:
What do you want?  Identify that, and you will see you have made a choice or perhaps need to make another one.  And don't forget to listen to your good sense...and mother's intuition...I forgot to once, I won't forget again!

[Brigid]

Mary up a tree,
Most definitely there are varying degrees of nism from having N tendencies to full-blown NPD.  There are also those dealing with N injury (probably applies to many of us on this site) who end up displaying some N traits.

I think single mothers are a very vulnerable group and N personalities prey on the vulnerable.  I would agree with Mum to trust your instincts, go slowly and don't ignore the red flags.

Brigid

[Anonymous]

mary,

And, crucially he seems very empathic.

That's their stock in trade. They seem to be empaths right up to the time they decide to squish you like a bug.

And also, I was wondering if anyone knows what happens if two Narcissists fall for each other (although surely this is impossible!)?

What happens is known as "hell-on-earth-squared", or alternately "their just desserts."

If you have a good sound mother, what does she say? Love can blind anyone, but there aren't many wackos that get by a good mom's radar.

mudpup

[bunny]

I met somebody who I immediately connected with 6 months ago and then we started seeing each other quite frequently.  We both expressed strong emotions for each other from early on but agreed that we should take things slowly.  This all seems quite normal but then we are still in the same position today and he has used all the most beautiful rhetoric to immobilise me, to hypnotise me and hold me, frankly, at a distance but never letting me go at the same time.

Now that you see it's all smoke and mirrors, what are you going to do?

Are there varying degrees of Narcissism?  And also, I was wondering if anyone knows what happens if two Narcissists fall for each other (although surely this is impossible!)?

there are varying degrees and two Ns get into relationships all the time. Look at Hollywood!

bunny

[Anonymous]

I definitely agree that there are verying degrees.  One must be careful.  
I was in a relationship with one with "mild" N tendencies.  When we were first dating, there were some things I thought a bit peculiar, but I ignored, and some of them I found endearing... like the way he could make himself laugh. I fell head over heals for him, and the way he seemed to love me.  He was and continues to be extremely charming... and he seems empathetic...

But very gradually, this became an insidious relationship. The N traits, that seemed rather banal became actually covert, manipulative, and destructive over time... the empathy was perhaps not really empathy at all. He was not overtly violent or aggressive, although looking back I think he inflicted more violence than anyone ever has, in my life.
In the least destructive points in the relationship all of the self-glorification and need for  attention just got to be pretty damn annoying.  
So, if you suspect something is strange, and you really want to proceed, I would do so with great caution!

[mary up a tree]

To be honest, a relation of mine told me she thought the boy I was seeing was a Narcissist and so I have just spent the last few days researching the disorder on the internet.  I was under the common misconception that it was about loving oneself too much.  Now I know otherwise and have learnt so much more I am just as concerned about myself!  This is why I wondered if Ns can be attracted to each other.  He is a cerebral one and I would imagine I am more somatic with cerebral leanings.

We both think of ourselves as being especially empathetic - we have discussed this, but what I wonder is - whether it is merely our intelligence that allows us to think ourselves into other peoples' feelings? (Because we want the subject to think of us as empathetic and intelligent and that there is a connection when, in reality, it is doesn't come naturally at all>  I analyse everything (and so does he) to the minutest degree.   And when we get together we send ourselves  almost crazy, talking until 7 in the morning when but never really getting anywhere.  I certainly feel rather hypnotised but I haven't asked him how he feels.

I had an overbearing, tyrranical father and an absolutely negligent mother.  My father used to go on about my beauty but I felt strangely warmed and ignored at the same time.  I have grown up feeling very much as if I have to create some kind of personality because I felt I hadn't my own and assumed this to be because I had low self-esteem but those feelings were coupled with feelings of being special too...cleverer than others, more insightful and more beautiful.  (Since I had my daughter I have improved).  I also think I have pushed everyone but Ns away from me, it feels as if only Ns can access my soul...

These are things I know I can only admit to because I am anonymous.  I am already panicking that when I check the responses you will all have rounded on me.  I am shaking as I write this.  I don't really know what I should do (another symptom is needing every thought, feeling and action to be validated by somebody else - I need to feel faultless).

[Guest from afar]

Why haven't you asked him why the relationship isn't progressing? Are you afraid he will turn sour and get angry? A normal guy would be willing to discuss it without running away or getting annoyed or giving you a sour look. the fact that you are reluctant to raise the topic with him is already a bad sign. Also, the fact that he was looking for a "mother" is not good. You don't want to be his mother or a mother-substitute, for example.

Good luck,

S

[Brigid]

Mary,
I guess a couple of us had different interpretations of his "interest in mothers."  Did you mean he was looking for someone to be a mother to him or that he preferred being with women who were mothers?  One of the disturbing things I found out about my N H after we separated was that he had confused me with his mother for many years which was a big part of the reason he didn't want to be sexual with me.  So I guess the answer to that question may have some relevance.  

Brigid

[Lara]

Hello Mary and Everyone,
I'd like to comment about this 'interest in mothers' thing.
 My ex idealised motherhood and was fascinated by seeing women displaying maternal  feelings. He really seemed to worship his own mother, and when he was in one of his depressed phases he would often tell me that his mother was the only person who cared about him. (I apparently didn't.)The strange thing was that he also seemed to feel quite controlled by her.I saw a photo of her once and she looked like a tough nut. However she seemed to be a heroine  to him.

As Brigid says, single mums are vulnerable, so please take care Mary. My ex's girlfriend,(the one he's recently had a baby with,) already has a son. When my ex was first getting to know her, my ex told me that she liked him because he got on so well with her son, who by all accounts was a bit of a tearaway. But soon after he dumped me and moved in with his new girlfriend, my ex told me that he couldn't stand the son anymore, and that he'd actually suggested to the gf that her son should go and live with his grandparents instead! (I don't know how the relationship is now between my ex and the son.) My point is, for Mary and anyone else reading this,be careful...if one of these manipulative people wants to get in your good books, they could try to do it by befriending your children, at least initially.

Finally, what Brigid said about her husband confusing her with his mother and so not wanting to be sexual with her, reminded me of something my ex once said to me; ie. that if a woman he was with had a baby, there were some sexual practices that he would not be able to do with her anymore, because it would make her 'unclean' for the baby.Therefore, he said, he would have to find somebody else to meet these particular needs for him.

Thinking of you,
Lara.

[Blue Topaz]

Mary:

If you feel something is off (no progression or discussion of relationship in 6 months) then listen to your internal self.  Our biggest mistakes & most trouble we get into are when we don't listen to that early inner voice that always painfully proves to have been right down the line.

Ask him about the relationship if you want to know, then gage his reaction very carefully. It is not uncommon at all for narcisissts to do endlessy do "approach- avoidance" behaviors to keep real intimacy at bay.  Many are 'committment phobes" because of intimacy (and more) problems.

BT

[Anonymous]

Dear Mary: I don't believe that you are an N. The fact that you suspect it suggests that you are not. Being overly empathic and having a need to be validated are common traits of those with N-injury, and from what little information I have about you family, they sound as if they might have caused this in you. He might not be an N, maybe he just has a lot of N-traits. However, you don't seem to feel comfortable in the relationship and seem to think that something is "off". This is all you need to know. Finally, about the special interest in mothers: this reallyworries me, because maybe it's not the mothers he is interested in, but their children? To awful to even think about, I know, but it does happen. Take care, and don't stay in a relationship where you don't feel comfortable.
Sleepy