Author Topic: Caught in a web of anger  (Read 2902 times)

delphine

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Caught in a web of anger
« on: February 28, 2005, 06:05:41 PM »
Hi, I am new here but I have been aware of Narcissim and its effect on my life for a long time. I have a very N mom, I think she could qualify as NPD. She just married for the 8th time, and has married wealthy greiving widows and spent their kid's inheritance repeatedly.  I also married an N and been divorved 8 years. With both I have learned to keep my guard up, enforce boundaries and stay detached. You would think I'd be able to handle them smoothly, but right now I think that English doesn't have enough curse words in it! I wish I knew Spanish, Turkish, or Italiain!!
I just got off the phone with my NXH. We have been trying to divide a jointly held account from years ago. He first told me there was $2,000 in it, then 6,000, then $8,400. When I asked if he'd show me a statement he blew up, screaming to forget it, why do I have to make it so hard??? Well, he now claims he's ready to show me the statement but there is $10,800 in it. He claims he just "misread" it the first time. Next ensued his reasoning about why I should get less than half.
     I am actually agreeing to less than half because I don't want to go to court and can't touch the $$ without him but I am furious. Mad for all the times I know he lied and cheated when I trusted him, mad that I still have to deal with him (we have a child), mad that he can make bold faced lies so easily and sloppily, and just plain mad mindlessly. It's hard to deal with. I went for a long, fast walk, I was so full of pent up anger.
     Can anyone relate to this? Are there ways to decompress that I don't know about? I've been dealing with someone who feels entitled to other people's money my whole life!
     Oh... the best I could do in English is he is a f**cking a**hole puss infected limpdick a** licking little piece of s**t.
     If you ever met me you'd find me to be a sweet, intelligent person but this raving lunatic comes out when I deal with him and I can't for the life of me totally let it go.

Anonymous

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 06:32:44 PM »
delphine,

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If you ever met me you'd find me to be a sweet, intelligent person but this raving lunatic comes out when I deal with him and I can't for the life of me totally let it go


Join the club. :)

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Can anyone relate to this? Are there ways to decompress that I don't know about? I've been dealing with someone who feels entitled to other people's money my whole life!


I think every single person here can relate to that. The only sure fire decompression for me is very slow. Its time. Also thinking about how miserable these people are sometimes lets off a little steam, because it injects a little pity into the anger, although I don't think you want to entertain any pity at the moment. My biggest relief is suing the tookus off of my N but I don't think that applies in your case.

Quote
Oh... the best I could do in English is he is a f**cking a**hole puss infected limpdick a** licking little piece of s**t.


That seems like a good start. Perhaps someone here could translate this into several languages for you.
I wish I could be more helpful but I don't know what to tell you. Its taking years for me to work the anger out and I'm not sure it ever goes away completely. I hope so. God bless.
mudpuppy

Anonymous

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2005, 06:41:52 PM »
Hi delphine,

It's natural to feel very angry at people who are liars and crooks like your mother and ex-N. But if the anger is ruining entire days, weeks, months, then it's taking up too much of your time. Life is too short to expend a lot of energy on these people.

One big component of anger is helplessness. The less helpless you are, the easier it is to manage anger so you can enjoy your day. I don't know what the situation is, but it seems like you're dependent on your ex for information, which is very bad, since he's a liar. Is there any other way to get information?

bunny

delphine

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2005, 07:27:31 PM »
Thank you, Mud and Bunny, it sure helps to have the immediate feedback! Just to not feel so alone.
Bunny, I will examine the documents when he shows me what he has (next few days) and see if I can verify the info. You are very astute in saying that not having access to info is part of the reason for anger.
I have let so much go because dealing with him is fustrating. I'm afraid to admit to others, who think of me as a strong individual, how helpless I feel when it comes to my XH or mom.
I have a really great BF now so it's not like I haven't moved on... part of it is I feel stupid when I have to explain to people what the father of my child is like. I feel like a bad person for choosing him, for having a child with him. As if my mom didn't give me enough experience dealing with an N.

Anonymous

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2005, 09:10:23 PM »
Quote from: delphine
part of it is I feel stupid when I have to explain to people what the father of my child is like. I feel like a bad person for choosing him, for having a child with him. As if my mom didn't give me enough experience dealing with an N.


Well, we understand how people get into these marriages. I don't know whom you are trying to explain it to, but maybe you don't have to. If people don't understand it, maybe they can just live with that mystery...

bunny

Anonymous

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2005, 10:28:53 PM »
delphine,
I guess I didn't read your first post that closely. If you have a jointly held account why can't you contact the institution and find out for yourself how much is in it? If your name is on the account I don't see how they could withhold the info. If your name isn't on the account then why is he splitting it with you?
 Have you considered contacting a paralegal? He/she might be able to force the institution to divulge the info. Its short of going to court and they're cheaper than a lawyer. I sure wouldn't trust any documents an N showed me. My N has a history of forgery.
Quote
I feel like a bad person for choosing him, for having a child with him.

Every person here has been suckered by an N. Some of us for far longer than 8 years. You're not bad for trusting a chameleon, he's bad for deceiving and betraying you.
mudpuppy

delphine

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2005, 11:13:52 PM »
Bunny, this gave me a big grin: Well, we understand how people get into these marriages. I don't know whom you are trying to explain it to, but maybe you don't have to. If people don't understand it, maybe they can just live with that mystery...

2 years ago my X was in the habit of taking my daughter to bars on weekends during visitation. it hurt her socially as the parents of her friends didn't want their kids roaming bars on sleepover nights. he even let my daughter spend the night at one of his "friend's " house. The guy went to rehab for crack addiction and I had to haul my X into a long counseling marathon to set some boundaries for visitation. I think I'm still angry at this. My X is a therapist with a MA in Child Psych.  Meanwhile, you ought to hear him pontificate about what a great parent he is, and how overcontrolling I am.
Ok, the money details: he was supposed to pay me half of an investment retirement fund at the time of divorce. I never got it and it's in his name only. So I wouldn't right now even know who to call. I know I can get a lawyer or (good idea, Mud) para to research it but I think I'll take a look at what he shows me first. If I have a name, contact number, I will at least try it on my own first.
At this point I am likely to take far less than I am entitled to. I can live without the $$$ and I don't know if I can live with another battle with him.
My BF and I plan to marry and are househunting now, so my life is really turning around. I've lived 8 years in poverty, spending everything I make on my daughter. I didn't even go to the dentist for 8 years, but made sure my daughter went. I could have used this money then. He's owed it to me but I have been afraid to push for it.
Do you think I'd feel better if I totally played hardball and went to court? I am more of a mind to just settle it, get something instead of nothing, and move on. I KNOW he totally loves the power of withholding money.
Anyway, thanks to anyone who is reading this; I wasn't even aware of how much the anger is really about the powerlessness.

Anonymous

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2005, 05:05:06 AM »
delphine:

OH YES!  I think I was really really angry for about 3 years.  Spent a lot of time on a treadmill.  The upside is I got into shape, but alas did not stay there.  I still berate myself for being stupid, staying in a 20 year marriage.  It makes me angry knowing that I was lied to, taken advantage of etc.....however, my xnH has been out of my life for about 8 years.  I still come to this site because of the residual anger I contend with.  Patz

Guest From Afar

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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2005, 06:59:41 AM »
If the money issue drags on and you don't need it, settle for less than half and remove the power he has over you about this account. My ex-partner (a huge N) owed me $7000 when we split in the late nineties. My last words to him were to pay me when he accumulated the $7000. Needless to say he did not contact me but I was delighted to get rid of him for 7K. I consider that a cheap price to pay to never set eyes on him again.  :D

As for thinking you made a mistake marrying him, my therapist told me the people still happy in marriage were simply lucky, rather than smart. She said they go around telling everyone how smart they were at 18, choosing a good partner, but in reality, it was just the luck factor. So, don't blame yourself. You were nice and he turned out to be a very good actor. If others don't understand our lives, there is nothing we can do, except change the topic, which is easy to do.  :wink:

Good luck,

s

delphine

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2005, 12:59:15 PM »
Quote
my therapist told me the people still happy in marriage were simply lucky, rather than smart. She said they go around telling everyone how smart they were at 18, choosing a good partner, but in reality, it was just the luck factor.

(trying the quote thing)That's really incredible, and made me smile!

But I have some older friends who I observed when their kids were dating and getting engaged. My friend, the dad, told one daughter that he didn't like her BF because he "didn't know how to love." That  was never the discussion in my house, it was always, what's his zip code? What did he buy you?, etc.
So some families can tweek the luck factor a bit...

mum

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2005, 04:17:02 PM »
Delphine:Then there are those of us whose loved ones said exactly that:
"this man doesn't know how to love" and we married them anyway....
It happens, we learn, we move on.

My two cents: decide for yourself which sounds better:
the money and the struggle to get it or
peace of mind and not having to think about him.
Of course there are all kinds of things in between.....decide what you want your life to feel like and go for whatever makes that happen.  Either way, anger is definately something that will keep you stuck to him emotionally (even worse than sharing a child with him.....)

People have told me I was a nut to engage in a court battle with my souless ex, I could've saved all kinds of money (I am now in debt a year's salary!).  But it was important to me to do it, because it wasn't over money, it was over freedom.
Some of the same people told me I was nuts to let my second husband walk away with so much of my money.  It was worth it to me to get out of the marriage, a price to pay for education, I guess.
I've been broke before....I'll manage ( you did!).
 
Write a list.  Decide what  you want.  Do it.

New life?  Awesome.  Money is money.  It comes and goes....fighting keeps us attached to things....sounds like you have more important things (people) to be attached to now.

delphine

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2005, 08:03:33 AM »
Thanks for your thoughts, Mum. It's really true that anger is a tie, one I don't want.  I'm not even aware it's there until some little incident with my X provokes this unstoppable Tsunami of anger, and then I realise that the past angers are still there, waiting to attach themselves to any new incident.
What gets me every time- and both my NXH and Nmom do it- is the way they emulate real, caring compassion right before they make unreasonable demands. And the way they try to stand by their lies. My X was TOTALLY INDIGNANT that I questioned the account value he first said, of $2,000. Why am I such a suspicious person? Why am I trying to make things so hard all the time? and etc. Then as he raised the amount in increments (it is now at $10,800) each time he completely glossed over the former amount. Each time he had this air of absolute certainty that the new amount IS the value of that account. His own contradictions never bother him. They are not even worthy of a footnote explanation.
Its so dam hard to resist the urge to argue, reason or chastise him, all of which are a waste of time. So, while he rages and blusters on the phone, I remain calm as a computer generated telemarketing call until I get off the phone. Then it hits me.
Is this perhaps PTSS, this anger that hits after the fact? Or, when you bottle your emotions, hold them in check, will they always explode later? And, is there any way to make it go away, or less intense?

Guest from afar

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hi
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2005, 08:53:35 AM »
Quote
"But I have some older friends who I observed when their kids were dating and getting engaged. My friend, the dad, told one daughter that he didn't like her BF because he "didn't know how to love." That was never the discussion in my house, it was always, what's his zip code? What did he buy you?, etc.
So some families can tweek the luck factor a bit..."


That was the parents who provided the additional assistance, not the spouse choosing the partner.

You were given no appropriate guidance by experienced wiser people who might recognise your husband-to-be's hidden flaws, and you were also unlucky.

Clearly in NO way was it your fault that you ended up with an N for a hubby!

((hugs))

S

mum

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2005, 10:43:52 AM »
Delphine: boy, oh boy, do I know exactly what you just wrote!  I work on detaching from this anger all the time.  

My very first therapist, post divorce, 8-9 years ago told me, "he will always try to hurt you, and he will use the children to do it".  She really knew what she was talking about!
I will be totally calm, together, loving life and then BOOM, another legal thing, another lie, another manilpulation with the children, another email trying to GET something out of me (which now means time with children...).  Such a mess.  Yes, I can be calm and together with my ex (very smart, by the way) and then later, it hits....damnit! He did it again!!!

How do I deal?  Well, I work at it every day.  I practice very hard at releasing his energy, because I know I not only feel it, but had a long habit of holding onto it (many years of a habit is hard to break)

 So I use visualization and breathing to clear it out of me.  Some days it's an all day long thing!  I try to only hang on to my own energy...I feel for those I care about (my children, friends and family) but my best bet, even with them, is to let go of any negativity I may hold, even thiers. a little example: my son just realized  a huge conflict coming up.....an extremely important jazz festival out of state and his girlfriend's prom night. He was so upset.  I felt his frustration (hard to miss!) but even he needs to feel this and then deal....so how helpful would it be for me to focus and dwell on how much that sucks?  No solutions ever come from focusing on what is going "wrong".  So we decided, yes, this is a drag, but lets not dispair, let it sit a bit and we will find a solution.

Ok, so much easier to do with someone you love, no?  In this way, though, I help my son.  I don't care if I help my ex, and certainly don't share what I do with him, this is to help ME!

 This is, in a nutshell, what I do.
 I identify what hurts me and say it!  Then I visualize it clearing out of my body (I use a toilet flushing image frequently!!!) sending it down my spine, to the center of the earth, where it (negative energy) turns back into love or goes back to it's owner (HIM).  Then I focus on how I want to feel......imagining I already have that in my life and feel how happy I could be  (no fear of him, a peaceful home, life with my fiance, etc).

It may sound airy fairy, but what the hell.......on this board, everyone knows how the N's effect our energy (read any post) in a negative way....
so why not take the  bull by the horns and TAKE CONTROL and stop being victims of the N's and decide to CHANGE our own inner energy.  
I am getting better all the time with this. Does this stop him? NO.  It actually makes him madder and madder, and soon, I hope he will just implode!  In the meantime, I could give a damn how he feels, and I will happily move on with my day.  Screw him.  He doesn't get to decide if I'm happy or not!

However, another thing I felt, reading your post, was if you can expose his lies, and you can release any of this negative enegy (that he will certainly dump on you) while you expose him, then even if you break even (as in no money earned) it would be a worthy exercise in power for you, and an example for your child.  But the example has to be worth it.  

For me, it was, as my children could see that even though he won a case against my relocating with them, my own convictions about what a woman should be able to do in this life were demonstrated to them. (even if the "system" supports a screwed up philosophy).  Only you can decide what things are worth.  I wouldn't go for the fight, however, unless you know what to do with the negativity. I didn't during the trial, and I believe my anger could very well have cost me my freedom to move.....but the good news is, real freedom is in my mind and body.....and he can't imprison me there without my consent.  I guess I had to lose the case to find that out! Not a horrible trade, really.

delphine

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Caught in a web of anger
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2005, 09:09:14 PM »
Mum,
Thank you so much for the understanding and helpful reply. I tried your visualisation while I was reading and could feel the negativity draining away.A reminder that anger is just energy and that I can move it out of my body was a perfect antedote.
I am leaning toward taking $4,400- less than I am owed but what he''ll cough up without a court battle.  I think I gave my daughter the right message by leaving, finding someone better and moving on with my life. My daughter loves my BF and is excited about us all living together.
As another poster said, its just $$$. N would enjoy the battle more than I would enjoy a few extra grand, and we'd both spend $$ I'd rather put into other things- a vacation, new furniture, etc. My revenge is going to be living well. BF and I will have a much better lifestyle than he does and he knows it.
I'm really done with trying to settle any scores and I would love to have no contact with him at all- so I generally aim for the least possible.
Letting go of the anger is like getting rid of the scent of someones body odor. AHHHHHHH fresh air!