I think I might be a narcissist.

[mary up a tree]

A relation of mine told me she thought the boy I was seeing might be a Narcissist and so I have spent the last few days researching the disorder.  I was under the common misconception that it was about loving oneself too much.  Now I  know otherwise.  But, during this learning process I have become as concerned about myself as him.  This is why I previously asked if N's can be attracted to each other.  He is prevailingly the cerebral type, whilst I seem sometimes to be that and at others, the somatic type.

We both think of ourselves to be excessively empathetic - we have discussed this often.  But what I wonder is - whether it is merely our intelligence that allows us to 'think' ourselves into the perspective of others without it coming instinctively.  (Because we want the subject to consider us particularly sensetive and that there is a deep connection)... How does this work?  How can N's seem SO empathetic?

My background fits the parental profile of a Narcissist.  I have an emotionally absent mother who is an extremely intelligent, successful lawyer and an overbearing, tyrranical father.  The only time I felt noticed, warm, appreciated was when he would encourage me to perform at dinner parties because he prized my beauty and my ability to mimic.  The rest of the time my presence was irksome, I was a burden to both of them and because of that I felt I needed to make my 'self' invisible.  I felt I wanted to create a new personality and I've always assumed this to be because I had low self-esteem.  However, I had thoughts of being special too.  Secretly I was more beautiful, more intelligent, more talented, more insightful than others (I use the past tense because in having my daughter I have been forced to be less solipsistic).  I also pushed away anybody who tried to get close to me who wasn't a Narcissist, it feels as if only N's can access my soul.  They scratch me where I feel nothing.

These are things I have never said to anybody before and can only do so here because this is anonymous.  I am already panicking that when I check to see if there are any responses I will be rounded on.

I don't really know what to do...(another symptom of whatever this might be: I need every thought, feeling and action to be validated by everybody else).

[Anonymous]

Q: how old are you Mary?

[Anonymous]

Mary up a tree, Welcome to this site:

Question with a question:  You have a daughter......do you:

1.  Use her to manipulate to get the things you want from her?

2.  Do you  try to make her see things your way regardless of
     the truth of the matter?

3.  Do you treat her as an invisible person as you were treated as a
     child?

4.  Empathy is the ability to put yourself in another's place and have
     feeling and sympathy for that individual?  Can you do that and it
     not be a manipulative and calculating ploy to actually get YOUR
     needs met?

5.  When people are talking to you do you find yourself irritated that
     the conversation does not revolve around you?

6.  Do you use your daughter to make you LOOK good, just like your
     parents used your talents to make themselves look good?


The very question that you posed: Do you think I am a narc.  I would tend to think no because most true narcs or N's  (this is what they are called at this site) do not have the CONCEPT they have any problems.  It is you that have all the problems because THEY ARE PERFECT AT ALL TIMES.  Their ability to really empathize is zero.

Others will post and give you some sites to check other narc lists. Use these lists to check out the symptoms and dynamics of N's and then look at your significant other.  You might find out some important things.

Probably some can add their own questions that are far better than mine.
This posting place is a place of safety and sanctuary from narcs.  Patz

[mary up a tree]

In response to the first question, I am 31.

I am grateful for the questions you posed because I could see things much more clearly.  Some of the things you suggested I could never be but also many of them I have been and would have been but I think, somehow, for example, I have been aware of manipulating people but because I hated the feeling it aroused in me I have gradually trained myself away from that.

Sorry to talk about myself so much but I think I have been in a bit of a muddle recently...probably because of the N in my life!  But I thought that N's can't get better and yet I think perhaps I WAS one and have somehow just become co-dependent or something![/b]

[Guest from afar]

My questions are:

1. Do you rage at your partner or express open annoyance whenever he doesn't do what you want or somehow does not  fulfill your expectations?

2. Do you walk around haughty, telling everyone falsities about your past that are grandiose exaggerations?

3. Do you consistently refuse to take responsibilitiy for your own failures and mistakes, and instead blame everyone else, especially your parents?

4. Are you always bragging about what you do, what you have, who you are, etc, and actually believe what you are saying?

5. Do you turn every conversation into a conversation about you? (ie, is it "always about you?")

6. Do you judge others based only on the last deed they did for or agin you, rather than on the entire history of their actions towards you?

7. Are you constantly seeking admiration from others?

8. Do you feel empty towards your friends or family, including your daughter and partner (or do you genuinely love some of them? ) Do you feel nothing inside when they achieve something but rather, feel envious?  

9. Do you have a genuine sense of humour, or do you only laugh because others are laughing, but inside you are wondering what is so funny?

These must be strong patterns that define you, rather than occasional characterisations of your behaviour.

I doubt you are a narcissist anyway, as you came here to ask. None of the narcissists I know would ever realise they might be one.

s

[delphine]

Hi Mary,
I can relate to your situation. I had an N mom and in my teens and 20s people accused me of being selfish and self absorbed, but (unlike an N) I listened to this feedback and changed my actions. I think I was acting Nish because I was emulating my mom. I had acquired her way of assessing situations and it took a long time to find my own voice, but it was there. For instance, I used to react very innapropriately to kindness in others. I'd instantly start analysing what their motive was, what they wanted, what they were trying to get me to do. And I never asked for what I wanted, I used the power plays and manipulations that were the standard format in my family.
I was comfortable with other Ns since they used the same rule book that I knew.
I agree with the other poster that Ns don't typically ask if they are Ns- its not in their nature to be self aware. I think of the Ns in my life as automatons or vampires-people whose compulsions so run their lives, so determine all their actions and words, that there is nothing like a human soul, and definately not a conscience.

[vunil]

Delphine-

I had a very similar childhood and reaction to your description.  When people were turned off by my behavior, I actually noticed it and agreed with it! I just didn't know what to do instead.  I think it makes perfect sense that we imitate our parents and that if they are strange then we don't know what normal is... Now it embarrasses me to think back on how I acted sometimes.

Mary.  maybe that's all you are doing?  Although, honestly, back when I was reflecting my parents' behavior I would only go to a list like this to figure out how everyone else was flawed  No way would I have thought it applied to me. So, I think by asking the question, you are well off.


I am always recommending books, because they have helped me a lot. Mosey around Amazon and maybe read something or two--there is a reason you came to this list. If nothing else, it may help illuminate your childhood dynamics.

[mary up a tree]

Thanks for your support everyone.  Perhaps I shouldn't be so concerned about myself.  I suppose it's to be expected that I'd react the way I have to my up-bringing.

Delphine - That's exactly what I mean.

My other question about N's is whether they are obvious and obnoxiously narcisssistic because that is how you all seem to be describing your experiences.  My (not so) significant other has most of the traits but he seems so genuinely empathic... and he is really gentle and quiet, not the typical bombastic narcissist that I imagine N's to be.  I guess my dilemma is whether I should give him the benefit of the doubt and belive him that he just isn't ready for a relationship, (which, by the way, I also say to him).  Perhaps he isn't a fully fledged N.  He may be like me?   Or  do I run a mile?!!

[Anonymous]

A relation of mine told me she thought the boy I was seeing might be a Narcissist...

What led her to suggest this?

But, during this learning process I have become as concerned about myself as him.

Unfortunately, it's kind of easy, when reading about a disorder, to think we have it. From your posts so far, I don't see narcissism leaping out at me.

We both think of ourselves to be excessively empathetic

Can you explain what you mean by excessively empathic? Does it mean that you worry a lot about others? Thanks, I'm not clear on it.

The only time I felt noticed, warm, appreciated was when he would encourage me to perform at dinner parties because he prized my beauty and my ability to mimic.  The rest of the time my presence was irksome, I was a burden to both of them and because of that I felt I needed to make my 'self' invisible.  I felt I wanted to create a new personality and I've always assumed this to be because I had low self-esteem.  However, I had thoughts of being special too.  Secretly I was more beautiful, more intelligent, more talented, more insightful than others (I use the past tense because in having my daughter I have been forced to be less solipsistic).  I also pushed away anybody who tried to get close to me who wasn't a Narcissist, it feels as if only N's can access my soul.  They scratch me where I feel nothing.

What a sad childhood, I'm very sorry your parents were so self-involved and (yes) narcissistic. I think it's natural to create a secret, grandiose persona who is cherished, admired, and loved. And I don't think it's pathological. It's just a way of surviving the neglect. You didn't actually believe you were literally entitled to diva-like catering from others. This was a fantasy. And feeling that only Ns access your soul is the wish that your parents had truly seen this special little girl. [IMO] This doesn't mean you don't have some issues of narcissistic injuries and narcissistic fantasies to process. I have some of the same fantasies you do and I don't think I am a narcissist. I think I use them to cope with feeling neglected and ignored, even now.

I need every thought, feeling and action to be validated by everybody else).

Possibly your reality testing cognition wasn't developed by your parents [due to their self-absorption], and you lack some skills in that area. You can change this. Are you in therapy..?
 

bunny

[Anonymous]

My (not so) significant other has most of the traits but he seems so genuinely empathic... and he is really gentle and quiet, not the typical bombastic narcissist that I imagine N's to be.  I guess my dilemma is whether I should give him the benefit of the doubt and belive him that he just isn't ready for a relationship, (which, by the way, I also say to him).  Perhaps he isn't a fully fledged N.  He may be like me?   Or  do I run a mile?!!

Putting aside the narcissism for a minute, if he's not ready for a relationship, why is he in one? And what do you want from a relationship? Marriage? If that's the case, you may be waiting and waiting and waiting....and he will never get off the fence. At some point a girl has to move on and find the man who is willing and able to give her what she wants. Waiting for a man to be "ready" is not going to end up with him ready. He can postpone readiness indefinitely.

bunny

[miaxo]

The mere fact that you are reaching out and concerned about possibly being a N suggests that in all likeliness you are not.  Granted my experience with N's is limited to my exhusband.  However, I feel he is a textbook case of the disorder and I'm 100% positive that he would never entertain the idea that he could possiblity be a N.  He is disconnected to everyone around him and it's obvious that he has never been able to form bonds with anyone due to the emotional neglect he suffered at the hands of his parents.

I wish you well and if indeed your SO is a N then I would recommend that you move on as quickly as possible.

[mary up a tree]

Bunny -

Thank you so much for your response, it was really thorough.  My aunt thought he was narcissistic because he was playing the piano at my parents' house after Sunday lunch and I think she just got an atmosphere of needing to be the centre of attention.

He and I both have a strong sense that we know exactly what others are feeling.  Whether he manipulates that or not, I couldn't tell you.  I don't think I do anymore...

I have just started therapy.  Last week.

What you said about 'thinking about what I need' is true, but sadly I have no idea what that is.  I get confused about what I need, want, feel etc...  But maybe my therapist can help sort that out for me.

Thank you though.

[Anonymous]

He and I both have a strong sense that we know exactly what others are feeling.  Whether he manipulates that or not, I couldn't tell you.  I don't think I do anymore....

Thanks for explaining. How would you manipulate this information?

Children of narcissists do have very powerful antennae, but many times the antennae are inaccurate, as they are mainly good for reading their parents, not other people.

I'm glad you have a therapist, I hope you will enjoy therapy.

bunny

[Anonymous]

mary,

My other question about N's is whether they are obvious and obnoxiously narcisssistic because that is how you all seem to be describing your experiences. My (not so) significant other has most of the traits but he seems so genuinely empathic... and he is really gentle and quiet, not the typical bombastic narcissist that I imagine N's to be.

Read some of the posts of gals and guys who didn't even have doubts like you do. They were completely fooled. It can take months or years for the thing inside to be revealed. Plus N symptoms are still filtered through the personalities of the individual. Maybe your N is naturally quiet and gentle. The destruction quiet and gentle Ns can wreak is just as terrible as some loud mouth braggart.
 

I have been aware of manipulating people but because I hated the feeling it aroused in me I have gradually trained myself away from that.

True NPD is pervasive and darn near impossible to modify. You sound like a nice normal gal who has unfortunately bumped into some weirdos.

If Ns were obvious and obviously Narcississtic when people first met them there would be a lot fewer members of this forum. They're chameleons. It sounds like you spotted your lizard before it was too late. Count yourself one of the lucky ones.

mudpuppy

[Brigid]

Mary,
I lived with my N H for 22 years with no clue that this disorder existed or that he needed therapy.  He kept so much hidden from me and lied about so much that I had no idea.  But I did not catch him in lies and had so much faith and trust in him that I never looked below the surface of what he told me.  He would lie to avoid any kind of conflict and always appeared self-deprecating rather than a braggert.  This was his way of manipulating those around him and bring him attention.  

When he announced he wanted to leave the marriage he was literally like a snake shedding its skin or maybe my eyes just started getting a lot clearer.  With the help of my therapist I can now understand that he never meant any of the  things he said or wrote to me.  He would write all of us long letters professing his love, quoting statements from priests he knew and talking about how important his faith was to him.  When I read the few of them I still have now I see how empty and meaningless they are.  It was like he was composing a song for no one but himself.  He has spent his whole life charming people through humor and constant conversation so that no one can ever get inside.  People who do not know what I have been through, but still have contact with him tell me how badly he feels about the whole situation.  I wish they could have been in the room when he left our home with his daughter in tears without giving her so much as a hug goodbye.  I look into his eyes now and see no soul, sense of humanity, sensitivity or relationship with God and he almost scares me.  It is positively eery how much he changed in a very short amount of time or I guess more acurately became who he is really is.

Brigid