Author Topic: Are you afraid you show N traits?  (Read 12722 times)

Anonymous

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2005, 11:20:08 AM »
Sleepy:


Sometimes I think this "second guessing" is a consequence of the distorted reality we have suffered.  Constantly questioning "is it me" because that is what we have been led to think.  Patz

longtire

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2005, 11:25:38 AM »
Patz, I am going through a horrible period of self-doubt right now coming out of my last therapy session.  I find it really difficult to put my experience with my N wife in concrete observable terms.  This really makes me question whether any of the behaviors I remember  happened or whether I may have made it all up or misinterpreted everything.  Yech!
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

sleepyhead

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2005, 11:26:41 AM »
How true Patz! We have heard all our lives that it is our "fault", it is our "problem", or that there is nothing wrong at all, and we are "crazy" for thinking so...Or maybe just for thinking for ourselves!  :roll:
Rip it to shreds and let it go - Garbage

Anonymous

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2005, 11:50:28 AM »
Gwyn:
Quote
I wonder whether I truly CARE about other people, or if I only care about them to the extent that they affect me.

It's not black or white. Are you a Saint? No. If someone beats you up do you still offer them your love? No. Unconditional love is for children, not for adults (unless you are that spiritually evolved, or you a Saint - and there simply aren't that many of those around).

Relationships are reciprocal. I do things for you not because I have to, but because I want to. Why do I want to? Because it makes me feel good! Very little is truly altruistic and that's okay.

Do you want to harm people so that you get en ego-kick from their suffering? Are you cruel? That's what you should worry about! Correction: that's what THEY should worry about...

I like your honesty Gwyn :)

Anonymous

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2005, 12:52:48 PM »
Hi Gwen,
You wrote,

Quote
This (and other readings) really made me think about how I relate to other people, which often seems to consist of trying to get them to like me or protect me or take care of me or make me happy or make me look good. In other words, it is manipulative and it is concerned with THEM only insofar as they relate to ME.


If those are your criteria for unacceptable behavior then lets all go jump off a bridge together. We all NEED those things from other people. In a healthy relationship others give us those things knowing we will give them back.  That isn't greed or selfishness, that is what connects us to each other. In fact it is one form of love.
God loves unconditionally, and so do children. I believe that is why He tells us to come to Him as a little child, but as adults in a fractured world we lose that ability with others. Love between adults is not a perfect thing, thats for sure. But that doesn't mean it isn't a wonderful thing anyway.
Its only when it becomes onesided, as between an N and a normal person, that it is perverted into something ugly and selfish.
You're not displaying N tendencies, you're displaying nice human tendencies, something Ns envy you for.

mudpuppy

catlover

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2005, 01:50:53 PM »
Thanks for your supportive posts assuring me that I'm not an N!!  It's definitely my black-and-white thinking again (which I advised sleepyhead against!)  i.e., if I'm not all good, then I must be all bad.... In reality, it's just that I have some habits that it would be good for me to change, and that I'm just normal, not a saint!!  Thanks for bringing things back into perspective  :)
Gwyn

Screamer

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2005, 05:51:59 PM »
Quote from: mum
Also, one of the things that people in our lives (probably N's) tend to do to us, is attack where we are most vulnerable...get us where we live so to speak.  For me, it's calling me selfish (which I am not, to a fault).  Ironically, those are the people who are trying to keep me in a position where they can take advantage of me, or use me for something.  They know it's my soft side and that accusing me of that (used to)change my behavoir to thier liking.


Mum,

Wow you really nailed!  My mother has often called me selfish.  Usually this is if she is not getting what she wants.  A therapist once told me that people who are abusive will take something that is a value to you (like the desire to be a giving, self-less type of person) and turn it against you.

I guess that is what my mother does.  Wow... it is enlightening to know that this happens to others... I'm not just crazy!

Screamer

Screamer

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2005, 06:02:17 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
If you think you're being selfish, ask yourself: who is dying because of my selfishness? Who am I hurting? Then compare yourself to a global corporation! If you're with someone who isn't an N, ask them - "do you think I'm being selfish?" - the results can surprise. What do you think Screamer?


This is great advice!  I don't think I am hurting anyone.  It's just that latley I seem to have so many needs, I worry that I am sapping all of my husband and friends energy.

My husband and I are trying to have a baby.  But just last year I was diagnosed with diabetes and am now on insulin.  We have talked to a specialist and have been assured that I can still have a health baby if I take the right precautions.  It is just taking a lot of my energy. (See... I'm talking about my problems again!!!)

I worry that I may be so focused on getting healthy to have a baby and finishing my MBA, that I forget about others.  For example, I have a friend I haven't seen in over a year.  We just e-mail from time to time now.  Between my health, my mother, moving, full-time school, full-time job, and attempting pregnancy... I feel so self-absorbed.  My husband is sweet, but I worry so often that he is not getting his needs met.  He tells me he is, but I worry.  

Screamer

October

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2005, 06:14:35 PM »
Quote from: Screamer
A therapist once told me that people who are abusive will take something that is a value to you (like the desire to be a giving, self-less type of person) and turn it against you.



So because I value my own moral integrity (which is non negotiable), and my sanity (which I try very hard to maintain), my t abuser attacked me in these specific areas.  That makes a huge amount of sense.

So, what he actually meant was, that I am very sane, and of high moral integrity.  And that he felt threatened by those things, because they exposed his own weaknesses, perhaps in those very areas.

My Nmum is the most selfish, self absorbed person I know.  She calls my current illness 'attention seeking', and tells everyone to respond by ignoring it, and me, which they do.  

Which means that she recognises that I do not court the limelight, and that I am self contained without anyone's approval, unlike herself.  (Not true in actuality; I do need my friends, but not her, so that is what she sees!!)

Rather complimentary if we turn these round!!  What fun!!

Thought of another one.  A friend who called me thoughtless.  I am one of the most thoughtful people I know.  So it was his own problem he had identified (which is true) and he was threatened by my ability to consider others, and specifically himself.

Not sure I can sustain this.  Very difficult to unravel the Alice in Wonderland world.

Last try.  My brother told me to 'cut some slack' for a nuisance neighbour, after I established and maintained an appropriate boundary by complaining to the police about a loud, late night (4am) party.  

So what he meant was that I am tolerant and understanding, not that I am not.  And it is his own intolerance that he has a problem with.  Which is true, he has anger issues.  

Next time any of them accuse me of stuff like this, I am going to say, 'Thank you very much, that is a very kind thing to say.'  Or perhaps not, but I will try to think it.   :)

Anonymous

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2005, 06:59:12 PM »
Octo and screamer,
Quote
So because I value my own moral integrity (which is non negotiable), and my sanity (which I try very hard to maintain), my t abuser attacked me in these specific areas. That makes a huge amount of sense.

Quote
A therapist once told me that people who are abusive will take something that is a value to you (like the desire to be a giving, self-less type of person) and turn it against you.


Is this the same as projection? I know when my brother accuses me of something, often times it isn't to get at me, its because he is in the process of doing it himself. If he tells me I'm having a nervous breakdown or acting greedy you can bet your bottom dollar (or pound, in your case October) that he is doing that very thing right then and there.

Screamer, good luck with the baby. Incidentally if your husband is sweet (like me :roll: ) he probably considers it a priviledge to give you extra help you when you need it. Its an honor to serve a really good wife.

October,
When did your social phobia begin, or get bad enough to be obtrusive? What helps it?

mudpuppy

mum

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2005, 08:49:03 PM »
screamer, october, mudpup:
"projection" has always confused me, but if that's what I described, perhaps I get it now??
My ex would always give me crap if a man looked at me or told me or him that I was attractive....he would say he imagined I was having an affair.  Sometimes he would wake me up to tell me he dreamed I was cheating on him and proceed to treat me like shit for the day because of HIS dream!
All along, HE was cheating on ME (I never did, never would....).
Interesting.

Anonymous

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2005, 05:36:35 AM »
Screamer:
Quote
I forget about others. For example, I have a friend I haven't seen in over a year. We just e-mail from time to time now.

Is it all your responsibility to maintain a friendship? Or does your friend make attempts to see you, and you say no? I wonder if you only look at what you do/don't do, and maybe looking at what others do will help.

If your friend hasn't made an attempt to see you, who's forgetting who? Please don't take all the responsibility/guilt on yourself.

October

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2005, 06:50:07 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous


October,
When did your social phobia begin, or get bad enough to be obtrusive? What helps it?

mudpuppy


It crept up on me while I wasn't looking.  It started with avoidance, a normal part of ptsd.  First you avoid the dark, and loud noises.  Then you avoid crowds.  And anger.  Then you avoid any situation where anger has happened in the past, and anywhere that might get loud, or crowded.  Then you avoid any situation which reminds you of places where there has been anger ...

It takes a few years, but eventually you get to the point where going out at all is a real problem.  It can be done, but it costs a lot.  Flashbacks, sleeplessness, replays over and over, thinking without being able to stop.  Retraumatisation sometimes.  Very bad stuff.  

Staying at home is deadly dull, and bores the life out of me, but it keeps things calm and minimises symptoms.  

What helps?  Well, I thought therapy was helping, but if that stops before it helps enough, then I will get worse.  Negative thinking - or maybe realism?  Ha ha!!   :lol:   What else helps?  Focussing on someone else rather than myself, and 'doing it for them'.  Bypasses the fears and disconnects the hypervigilance a bit.  Also gives sense of achievement, so is well worthwhile.

And meeting people online helps.   :D

Portia

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2005, 07:16:18 AM »
Can I interject please? (it's the 'J' again October, looking for conclusions...) October, if I asked, would you do something for me please? Or would you do it for The Board? Please? Stop deleting recent posts, say, posts only a week old. Delete anything over a week old, but anything under a week stays. How about it? Would you do that if I asked....? See what you think, you could even apply conditions if you like.. P

Anonymous

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Are you afraid you show N traits?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2005, 08:44:24 AM »
Screamer:

All the things you have listed are off the chart on the stress o meter.  Exactly who is supporting you while you deal with your health issues and the difficulty in having a child?  Who is helping you with getting your MBA?  Who is helping you to move and all the other things you are trying to do at the same time?  The point I am trying to make is that you are doing a TREMENDOUS job of taking care of yourself, and your future.  This are issues that cannot be compromised.  This is not self absorption.

I real a great deal on investments, books etc.  Warren Buffet stated something that has stayed with me for a long time.  He stated, I will paraphrase here, "that people are given a card in life. On this card we have about 20 financial hole punches that can last a life time.  If  you punch a hole on the wrong side it will cost you financially and emotionally.  These can take the form of not going to school ( a wrong hole punch)  going to school (a good hole punch)  getting married to early (wrong hole punch) you begin to get the idea.  You are making all the right hole punchs for your future and your child's future.  This is not self absorption but and adult way of providing for yourself and your child.  To do otherwise would be foolhardy.  Self absorption would be smoking or drinking or other risk taking behavior that would compromise your health.  NOT finishing your MBA because  you didn't want to put in the time would be compromising your future and your family's ability to have a good life.  NOT dealing with other people who are negative, who take up your precious time and are not uplifting (N's) is a wrong hole punch.

From my vantage point, I think you are doing a fantastic job of  juggling all these stressful things.  Give  yourself a break and look in the mirror and tell yourself you are doing great, and are a successful person, because you know what, YOU ARE.  Just my 2c.  Patz