Over a year ago I copied some messages and saved them, from this message board. They seemed particularly interesting to me. One contributor, RM or Renaissance Man, had some words to say on how emotional pain can contribute in the process of our growth and development. I thought his insights worth repeating, so here is a copy of that exchange, just as I copied it a year ago.
It's great to see this board up and running again!!!!!!
radioman . . .
From: Sara
Date: 02 Jun 2002
Time: 14:21
Comments
I think I am probably suffering from narcissism and am currently undergoing therapy but it doesn't seem to be dong any good. My therapist doesn't even seem to think I'm a narcissist but I think I'm doing the thing narcissists typically do which is to charm and fool their therapists.
So what I want to know is: is there any type of therapy that is particularly effective at dealing with the narcissistic personality?
Any suggestions would be most appreciated as I really need to do something about this - it's ruining all my relationships and I think it always has.
Re: is there a cure for narcissism?
From:
Date: 12 Jun 2002
Time: 01:22
Comments
I believe that most of our discontent, pain and unhappiness arises from habits of thought and action, whose roots lie in our original conditioning (childhood). We all learned how to get along in the world in some original fashion.
Our learned techniques and methods for navigating our way through life may be effective, that is, get us what we need and want, or ineffective, that is, fail to get us what we need and want or perhaps get us something we didn't want. Fortunately for us humans we have a built in feedback system which tells us when we've gone astray by making us aware of pain and misery. So these are our allies in the learning process. We must make friends with these allies, at least tolerate them. Even if we run from them or ignore them they will not let us down. Just like true friends, they will deliver until we acknowledge them and their message.
Even though everyone can readily see this we still run from our pain-which-would-make-us-aware. Humans do have a tendency to repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over. Naturally this leads to repeated visits from our allies. An observer from Mars or Venus might think we were sado-masochistic or at least a little slow.
Being very clever and creative we have devised many variations on where to hide from our pain. When we can no longer ignore it we want to simply get it over with and stop the pain as quickly as possible. This error leads to more pain as we fail to connect with our allies message and incorporate it into our worldview.
How we got into these dysfunctional ways of navigating the world was one step at a time, day after day until it was simply a habit. And that is how we learn new ways, one day at a time until it is simply a habit (that works). One little step at a time at first. Then bigger ones until one day we are walking. Then running. Then doing gymnastics.
The rest is a piece of cake. How do we know which step to take next? Our pain will tell us. Let's say I'm a self-centered sob who could care less about anyone else and I can no longer ignore that I am miserable. What is my pain about? My neck is sore from contemplating my own navel for too long. Then focus outward, towards the concerns of other people. When your pain begins to subside you know you're on the right track.
Therapists can help us become more aware of our habits and our learned responses. Also they can help us learn new ways that work. But they cannot (and will not if you asked them to ) face your pain for you or feel your feelings. Why take it out on them by fooling them or charming them?
The problem, and therefore the solution, is within you, not out in the world. The world just is. We have very little control over much of what happens to us. We can control how we navigate through this world. A good place to start is using the time honored methods found in all of the worlds Spiritual teachings.
Is it not true that our situation is a bit like a dog tied to an erratic cart? No matter what the dog wants the cart will determine where things go. The dog has two choices; follow the cart or be dragged. There is some play in the leash, but not enough for the dog to stray very far. If the dog gets it just right he can trot along at an easy pace next to the cart. Then it becomes a habit. Best Wishes, RM
Re: Is my MIL a narcissist? PLEASE ADVISE
From: Renaissance Man
Date: 02 Jun 2002
Time: 14:38
Comments
How can one respond to being manipulated and lied to? You mean, after you beat the daylights out of them? The problem with being manipulated is you generally only find out about it after the fact. Thus, you've already been had. As in any situation there are a number of options to choose from for a response. The aforementioned choice being the most forward and direct response is not recommended for obvious reasons. But there are still at least four or five remaining choices.
For example, you could DO NOTHING. Choose not to respond. This may be a good option when you just have to put up with it simply because she comes with your husband. Or if you want peace of mind more than anything else. And because it doesn't reward the offensive behavior.
Or perhaps you might walk away. Exit the scene. Turn your back. Get out and into a safer place. This works when you need to think things through, which happens when you're trying to figure out how you were manipulated or what the lie was. Or maybe you are afraid of doing method #1 and need to chill. Or you are disgusted and need some air.
A fourth response could be the judicious use of deception as a tool for creating emotional distance from the offensive behavior while maintaining the necessary interactions. In other words lie when you need to in order to keep the peace. The main disadvantage is becoming one too. But unconventional techniques applied in the spirit of what's good for all involved can have beneficial results. I remember all of the wonderful holidays with my family as a child, not that Santa Claus was BS.
Related to, but essentially different from doing nothing is the ideal response of compassion. How else can we really view this kind of behavior? If one lies or manipulates to get their needs met it is kind of sad because most likely their needs would get met better without the games and BS. The question of compassion asks can I still love this person when they hurt me or others?
Sometimes you can tell when you're about to be deceived or BS'ed. A subtle cue can tip you off. Or you may hear stories that are not realistic or don't add up. Or just plain old gut instinct. Constant exposure to deception and lies can chip away at the ability to trust and maintain in good working order one's hunches, so it's important to practice using them as a basis for decisions. Being manipulated and lied to tests your resolve to believe in yourself, so vote for yourself to counteract this effect.
There are other options as well or combinations of different options. For example, walk away and then do nothing, or do nothing until that fails and then use deception. Awareness of more than one or two options enables you stay on your toes in the moment, which you'll have to do to stay ahead of the manipulator. If all of that is too much, may I recommend doing nothing as a sort of default option. After all, most of us have other things to do, places to go and people to see besides hashing through someone else's ridiculous machinations.
For me, awareness of options in my choices helps me feel somewhat more free- not so trapped, and so it's easier to choose compassion-embracing the other person while being aware of how they can hurt and sometimes do, and trying to stay out of the way when that needs to happen.
Best wishes, RM
