how a 7 yo copes

[miaxo]

My daughter recently told me that she will tell her N Dad "Okay" when he is hounding her, yelling at her, etc in order "to get him off my back."

X N will ask things like, "You want to stay here more, right?"  In the past my daughter would say, "No" only to have him "go off" on her.  Basically she is learning how to appease her Dad .  She will tell me these things b/c she is upset and doesn't want to stay there more but tells him otherwise to keep the peace.

My daughter is usually targeted by him b/c she has a strong personality and tends to challenge him on things whereas my little guy still thinks Dad is great.  

I am very torn about this entire scenario.  I will be bringing this up to the children's therapist but their next appt isn't for two weeks.  The kids only had one meeting and the therapist doesn't see anything of crisis proportions.  Overall they are well adjusted children considering everything they have been through.

Anyway, I wanted to see how others felt about a 7 yo adopting an appeasement policy towards a N parent.  I am especially interested in hearing from those of you with N parents.  What other coping strategies would be appropriate for my daughter?  What do you wish someone would have told you at this age regarding your N parent/s??

I feel sad in many ways b/c I feel like my daughter is forced to grow up faster and to learn how to *deal* with Dad.  When I was her age I wasn't burdened by such things.  I was allowed to be a carefree kid.  I respected, honored, loved, and feared (in a good way) my Dad and Mom.

I look at what she is doing and realize that it was smart of her to know how to adapt to Dad's environment when over there.  It's just so unfortunate that she is only there for short time periods and he still is able to ride her back about everything.  For goodness sake, she is only in first grade.

Thanks for listening to me think out loud.

[bunny]

Mia,

Child therapy is about helping children find ways to cope with their parents. A child can't escape from their family. They can't change their parents. All they can do is develop better coping mechanisms. And if they have a place to safely vent or express their feelings (therapy) hopefully they will be okay.

Your daughter is doing the right thing by appeasing this idiot. It's far better than getting into a battle with him, which he will win. She can feel more powerful appeasing him (managing her own situation) than battling him and losing. This way she actually wins.

BTW my niece is seven and has two N-parents. She's struggling to find ways to deal with these losers. Your children are lucky to have one good parent.

bunny

[Brigid]

Mia,
It is terribly unfair that a 7-year-old must appease her adult parent, but I agree with Bunny that she cannot escape her family (at least for now) and good for her that she is learning coping mechanisms at such a young age.  Thankfully she has you and her step-dad to come home to and show her what a loving adult relationship should look like.  

When I see how much more emotionally mature my 20-year-old son is than his almost 50 yo father, its positively scary.  Slowly my son is learning what a pathetic child his father is and that he will have to father his dad for the rest of his life.  My son has given up on looking to his dad for any guidance or help with life's issues as that is just beyond his dad's grasp.  My son now understands that I did make all the important family decisions and kept the household running smoothly with no help from his father, even though I gave him credit for things he never did.

I had one n parent and one who enabled and then married 2 n men.  When I look back the only person I had to turn to for stability in my childhood was my grandmother.  However, she would move away for years at a time while I was young.  In my not-very-enlightened opinion, I think your daughter will be OK if she has you as her beacon of strength and light and she has a therapist she can trust.  Kids are pretty resilient if they have at least one good mentor in their lives.  It sounds like you are doing all you can to monitor the situation and protect your children the best you can.  Its heartbreaking that children so young must grow up so fast.  Keep praising her for learning how to work with her father to keep the relationship as free of disagreements as possible.  It will be to her advantage in the long run.  When he realizes he doesn't have her to manipulate anymore, it may help to lesson his desire to manipulatate you.  Who knows?

Mia, you are a great mom and you just need to keep doing what you are doing.

God bless.

Brigid

[October]

My daughter recently told me that she will tell her N Dad "Okay" when he is hounding her, yelling at her, etc in order "to get him off my back."

X N will ask things like, "You want to stay here more, right?"  In the past my daughter would say, "No" only to have him "go off" on her.  Basically she is learning how to appease her Dad .  She will tell me these things b/c she is upset and doesn't want to stay there more but tells him otherwise to keep the peace.

As far as I can see this is a problem with boundaries.  A 7 yo is not old enough or strong enough to establish and maintain her own boundaries, and an N parent is going to trample all over any attempts.

I think this is certainly something to discuss with the t, and to help your 7 yo understand that she is allowed to say no to her Ndad, and that you will back her up in that process.

I am having this same discussion with my daughter (and hopefully her t - we see her for the first time on Friday and I am hoping this will help).  It is very harmful for her father to push and push until she says yes.  This sets a bad precedent for future interactions with men, and she has to be enabled to say no, even if you do it for her.  She has to be able to choose.

In the past I used to say to my daughter, if your dad pushes you to do something that you don't want to, just say; 'mum won't let me.'  That gets you out of the loop of explaining and supporting him through his emotional response, and leaves me to sort him out.  Which I did.  Often.  

[miaxo]

bunny said:

 

A child can't escape from their family. They can't change their parents. All they can do is develop better coping mechanisms. And if they have a place to safely vent or express their feelings (therapy) hopefully they will be okay.

brigid said:

think your daughter will be OK if she has you as her beacon of strength and light and she has a therapist she can trust.

At their first session the kids felt so comfortable with the therapist that they both kicked off their shoes and were very relaxed.  The T is really a remarkable woman who has a natural sense for what children are all about and the kids picked right up on that.  They so enjoyed the session that neither one wanted to leave when it was over. My daughter keeps asking when she is going back.

October said:

I think this is certainly something to discuss with the t, and to help your 7 yo understand that she is allowed to say no to her Ndad, and that you will back her up in that process.

This is one of the things on my long list to discuss with T.  It is a concern for me.  I'll see what the T's take is on this mess is.

I hope your daugther is fairing well.

Thanks all for the replies.

Mia

[Anonymous]

Mia,

Your daughter's "Okay" was a good response, to such a question ("You want to stay here more, right?")  It's not a "no" that will cause her problems and it's not a "yes" either.  It's more like a "Well what choice do I have here for now" kind of Okay.  It's good that she can talk to you about this afterwards.  What else is she to do, if it's not possible to really talk with him.

For now it's up to you and him and the courts to determine "how much time she has to be there".  Some day it will be her decision , maybe he ought to think about that one.

When I was young (5 or 6) I realized that there was something not quite right with my mom.  I think realizing at a young age is good.  When I was in my 20's I was talking to one of my brothers and he said when he was young he thought he was the problem, not our parents.  Having realized it young I think it helped me a lot and also helped me deal with others in life also.

If she's like me, she will just be biding her time till she does not have to put up with his BS anymore.  Nothing wrong with that.

LM

[mum]

Mia: you probably know by now this hits right at home for me, too.

Your child is in therapy with a good attitude toward it at an early age.
YOU are her mother (the best thing she has going for her).   I think you are doing what you can, by listening to her and getting her a professional to help her with her feelings.  I think just by this, she will fare better than my daughter has (and she's ok, don't get me wrong).

My son (almost 17) does not want to cause any trouble.  He will complain about dad to me, but wants to just keep it quiet around dad....he will stay "under the radar"  to get out of his dad's way.  That and play a killer jazz sax.  He is "outta there" mentally (and almost physically) anyway.  He did have some success with a therapist, and has developed some coping mechanisms that work for him. He just wants to be happy, and pretty much ignores everything else.  As much as his dad makes him uncomfortable, he will not speak up to him at all.

My (almost 13) year old daughter, however, is much tougher.  She was only 3-4 when he left, and doesn't have a dad in the house memory.
She is tougher for her dad to deal with and it has been clear all along, my ex has no idea what to do with a girl.  She has tried to speak up to him, but any personal expression that threatens his fragile dad ego, has had serious repurcussions for her.

So my daughter has learned:
Do not speak up at all around dad and step mom unless it is to placate them.  
Mom understands, tell her, but dad doesn't listen to mom either.  
I will be punished for asking to go "home" when I am supposed to be at dad's. (long, traumatic story) I will never do that again.
(you can see, Mia, why I would want an evaluator involved...PAS or no PAS).

And she has also told me: "I have my way with dad.  I know how to talk to him. I say what he wants to hear, and don't really listen to him." (sound familiar?)
And SHE WILL NOT SPEAK TO A THERAPIST!!!!  Shuts down, won't talk, absolute refusal.  She will talk to me, but since dad won't listen to me, really, it is still safe to do so, perhaps.
She has recently been studying  with a professional theater group and doing extremely well.  She is also in several choirs....so, she is not failing to find some voice, somewhere!  This is her therapy for now, I guess.

I'm happy you have a therapist to help your kids, but always remember the addage: "kids really only need ONE VERY GOOD PARENT" (and that is you)....and then I add this part: " and they will be especially fine if that one very good parent is no longer married to a very bad parent!"

[miaxo]

LM said:

If she's like me, she will just be biding her time till she does not have to put up with his BS anymore. Nothing wrong with that.

My daughter is already asking when she can stop going.  I told her that she will have to go for a while still until a Judge feels she is old enough.  Of course she asks how old is that.  I told her when she is a teenager.  Well, she didn't want to hear that.....way too far away. She told me that when she is at Dad's for two nights that it feels like she is there for over a week.  


Mum said:

My (almost 13) year old daughter, however, is much tougher. She was only 3-4 when he left, and doesn't have a dad in the house memory

This is true for both of my children.   X N left b/f son was born ad when daughter was 2.  They are very close with their stepDad and call him "Poppy".  I had to smile when I was reading the other posts about naming a baby Poppy.  That name is filled with such love and tenderness. My kids started calling him that on their own.  I think it's adorable.

I'm very thankful that my daughter feels free to confide in me, my H, and my Mom.  I'm very careful not to question her upon her return from visits as she will become guarded.  Usually within two days after a visit she has told myself, or my H, or my Mom about what happened during her visit.  She knows she can tells us the good along with the bad.  

It was a great concern of mine that she wouldn't trust a therapist... just like your daughter, Mum.  I was worried about this b/c X N had used info the child custody evaluator told him and used it as a weapon against my daughter instead of using it as a tool to help daughter adjust better to visits with him.  He told her that the T thought she was a liar and that so did he.  My daughter cried and cried over this and was so upset that the T "told on her to Daddy".  He is just plain evil .

[bunny]

Mia,

When she asks, you might say, "A few more years" instead of when she's a teenager. Their tracking of time is different from an adult's as you know. She might get too despondent if she hears that.

As she gets older, she might find it easier to deal with her idiot father, as she is more sophisticated and can tune him out, spend time with friends, etc. Or she'd be willing to tell a judge how unhappy she is. She won't be 7 forever and your ex will find it harder and harder to manipulate her.

For him to sadistically lie about the therapist is really chilling. Does the therapist know he did this?

bunny

[miaxo]

For him to sadistically lie about the therapist is really chilling. Does the therapist know he did this?

Bunny

Yes, the T does know he said this....he even admitted to doing so in an email to me...he's not denying it.  

The current T knows the custody evaluator and knows she NEVER would have told N to use the info the way he did.

Right now he is in contempt of court since he has not contacted the T.  The T needs to hear from him so she can try to work with him.

He didn't want my daughter going to T in the first place....I had to have it court ordered.  He sabotaged daughter's relationship with her first T by sending her nasty letters, etc.  Old therapist recommended new T b/c new T will go to court if necessary whereas old T doesn't do the court thing.  

Whether or not the T knows X N is a N....I don't know....but at the very minimum she knows he is very difficult to deal with and that he says and does inappropriate things in the presence of the children.

I'm just continuing to build a case against him.  Slowly but surely.  

I hope he hangs himself.

[sleepyhead]

Good to hear your X is in contempt, I remember reading that he might be on another thread, it is something worth celebrating! Your daughter is so lucky i having a mum like you, keep up the good work! I'm sure she will grow up to be an absolutely lovely person, your good influence is all she needs.

[Anonymous]

Mia,

Is there any consequence to being in contempt of court?

bunny

[miaxo]

sleepyhead,
thanks.

bunny,
I don't know what the consequences will be.  I emailed my attorney about the situation.  When I find out I will let you know.  This will be just one more instance where he doesn't follow through with anything regarding the children and only feigns interest when he wants the Judge to reduce his support, etc.  
I do want this on record so the Judge can see more clearly what he is all about.

[Anonymous]

Mia,

Yes do keep a record of such things as his email admitting what he did to your daughter concerning the therapist.  I think it is good the one therapist turned you over to one that would go to court.  If your ex continues his BS it's very possible that the court will agree to discontinuing visitation.  Maybe as a step you might want to see if there can be supervised visitation, for only a couple hours a week.  This is all just very upsetting and I am so sorry for all of you.

LM

[Anonymous]

LM

thank you for your concern.  The kids will be going with their Dad for five days (Easter break). ACCK!!

This is the longest stretch of time that they will be with him alone EVER.

My daughter was crying on Wednesday b/c she doesn't want to go for that long.

She has calmed down considerably as i have tried to ease some of her fears.

Since it is the holiday I am hoping that X N will be taking them around his relatives.

I would like to ask you kind folks to say a prayer or two that all goes well for the my children during this extended time with X N and if you don't pray then any positive thoughts, vibes, or energy would be welcomed.

Early this morning I celebrated Easter with the kids and read from the Bible about Good Friday, Jesus' crucifixion, and His rising from the dead. They sat and listened.  This gave me much comfort.  I told them Jesus loves them and is always with them.  My 4 yo son said a prayer all on his own, "Thank you for loving me, Jesus".  My heart smiled.

Just thought I'd share.

I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday and weekend.

Mia