Feelings

[October]

My daughter has a new counsellor.  When we saw her it became apparent that she is not very good at tuning into my feelings, and she and I have to work at ways of me communicating, and her understanding, what I am feeling.   Bit tricky, because I seldom know myself, so good for both of us.  

During the conversation C said that she was surprised recently to see that I still care about her dad.  The t said that it is important for C to know that I care about her dad, because he is an important part of her, and of who she is.  

Which led me to the thought about my own parents.  My dad often told me how fond he was/is of my Nmum (never of me, though), but from her I have never heard anything about my dad but sneering, deriding, ridiculing; you name it.  She has never had a good word for him that I can ever remember, and he has never done anything right.  Never quite good enough.  Neither for anyone else.  She can't even write 'with love from' in cards.  She just signs them 'mam and dad' or 'gran and grandad'.  Nothing else.  (And incidentally, I don't call her 'mam' and neither do my brothers.  Don't know where she gets that from!!!!!)

So what has this taught me about part of myself which comes from dad?  (Which hopefully is most if not all!!!!!!!!!!)

What do others think about this?

[Stormchild]

Hi October... I could be waaaaay off base here because I don't know your history as well as some folks who've been here longer, but do you think your Nmom has any influence over the way your daughter sees either her father (your ex) or you?

Complicated as heck to explain. I'm just wondering if your daughter has gotten her ideas about how you feel about your ex - more from listening to Grandma than from asking Mommy.

God knows, it happens - that's why I thought about it. Anyway, could be way off base, but I thought I'd share.

(((October)))

[Anonymous]

October,

I think your daughter will appreciate your reflecting on this. You two can collaborate on ways to express feelings so she can know what's going on with you. Sometimes a therapist can ask the daughter, "What could mum do to show you how she feels?" (answer) and ask you, "Do you think you can do that?"

I think it's common to have an inhibition against showing tenderness, when it has come to be equated with dangerous vulnerability and high risk of being rejected, etc.  It's just a defense. I have it myself.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hiya October:

Could you write down some of your feelings toward your daughter and give them to her in a note?

Even a simple line....."I love you".

Slip it under her pillow?

I learned in a parenting class, years ago, to write down the things I liked about my children, how I felt about them, etc and just leave the letter where they would find it.

I did that.  Neither of them ever said a word but I bet they kept those letters, as our instructor said they probably would.  They might not know how to respond, and I wrote that there was no need, just that I wanted them to know how much I cared etc.   Reading the words and knowing their mother bothered to write would likely have a good effect.  I may never know but I do know I tried very hard to tell them how much they mean to me.

I say things out loud to them, sometimes, but I never thought of writing it down, in black and white, for them to ponder and possibly refer to later.  
It might be easier than trying to speak out loud, if you're not sure or uncomfortable?

Just a thought?

GFN

[Portia]

Morning October  

My dad often told me how fond he was/is of my Nmum

Now why would he need/want to do that?  Because he wanted to reassure you as the evidence suggested otherwise? Your parents are still together, it’s just not necessary for him to say this. Guilt on his part? Trying to lead you by example (“yes Dad, I’m fond of mum too”)? Whatever, he wasn’t being honest. It sounds like it could have been ‘I’m very fond of your mother BUT….’ And the but didn’t come? I don't know.

(never of me, though),

maybe he was saying he was ‘fond’ of you by association. ‘I’m fond of your mother and therefore of you’. Who knows. I don’t expect men (or women) of a certain age in this country to express any tender loving emotions, it just isn’t done it seems. Or maybe that’s just my family. No. It's cultural too.

She can't even write 'with love from' in cards.

Wow. Serious stuff. Very bitter.

She just signs them 'mam and dad' or 'gran and grandad'. Nothing else. (And incidentally, I don't call her 'mam' and neither do my brothers. Don't know where she gets that from!!!!!)

her ‘mam’? Is that where it comes from, is she just copying her mother and treating everyone (including you) like her mother treated her?

I don’t know. Hey, my Dad used to ask about my mother (‘how’s your mother? Have you seen her/spoken to her lately?’) every time he saw/spoke to me. (They divorced when I was very young.) After a while, ooo 40 years, it started to annoy me. if he wants to know about her, he can darn well ask her himself. Why is everything about me linked back to my mother??   I don’t exist in my own right! Whoops.

So what has this taught me about part of myself which comes from dad?

Um, I don’t think we’re a product of our parents in terms of basic personality, genetic. I think we’re all different. The problems come from thinking we are like our parents in terms of abilities, personality etc. We want to see patterns in everything and it’s too easy to imagine we’re like them. I don’t think you sound anything like your dad at all. Maybe because you’re a lingchange like me!  

[October]

do you think your Nmom has any influence over the way your daughter sees either her father (your ex) or you?

(((October)))

Well, this certainly raises serious questions.  As we know, Ns are made in one of two ways; either spoiled rotten or else ignored totally when very young.  Either way they fail to learn empathy for others, and remain at the centre of their own world.

I am a very giving person, and perhaps someone like this is the ideal person to create a spoiled N in their own child.  C is capable of empathy, but perhaps I have not allowed/enabled/encouraged her to develop this area of her personality as much as I could have done, by always meeting her needs, and not showing her how to even recognise mine.  But there is nobody in my family who knows how to recognise my needs; not even me.

Meanwhile, yes, gran has an influence, and I do sometimes hear C sounding like her.  Mind you, I sound like her myself at times too, so it is an easy trap to fall into.  

I think there is a lot of thought needed around this issue, and a lot of care to ensure that my daughter does not fall into the N trap.  I have an aunt who prides herself on not being at all like my mum (her older sister0, and yet her daughter, my cousin, is very N.  VERY!!!!!  She was staying with me once, and I asked her if she was comfortable, and if there was anythign she wanted.  She replied, 'Yes, I'm fine.  If I wasn't I wouldn't still be here.'  Struck me at the time as a bizarre thing to say, but it was pure N language.  

Clearly there is a very strong genetic/behavioural strain in our family, and it does come from my maternal grandmother, I am sure.  Time to break the connection, if I can.  (With the help of two ts.  Mine and Cs. )

Thanks for your concern, Stormchild.

[October]

Hiya October:

Could you write down some of your feelings toward your daughter and give them to her in a note?

Even a simple line....."I love you".

You're right, that is a good thing to do.  We leave messages on the board in the kitchen, and on the mirror, so that the next person to have a bath sees it when the room gets steamy.  

Fortunately, she knows I love her.  If she doesn't, then she hasn't been listening for the past 12 years.    

Beyond that, if I ask her how I am feeling, she has to guess.  It makes for a fun game.  

[October]

Morning October  

It sounds like it could have been ‘I’m very fond of your mother BUT….’ And the but didn’t come? I don't know.

You're right, in fact there was a big 'but' and it did come.  He said he loved her, but he did use both me and my brothers for emotional support - he talked to us for hours about how hard it was to be married to my mum.  From a very young age.  And he still does, if he gets half a chance.  Very old record, that one.  So it wasn't really about love, or if it was it was about his own loyalty.  He was fishing for validation, and used to get it. Well spotted, Portia.  

Is she just copying her mother and treating everyone (including you) like her mother treated her?

Yes.  Mum is just like Ngran.  Very similar people.  Can freeze water at a glance, from 50 yards away.        Gorgons both.  She mistakes me for Ngran too, sometimes.  I look a lot like her, and having a toddler mother, that is very confusing for her.  I have always been able to get her to do things that nobody else can.  Like if she is going off into a hysterical outburst, I can stop her by being ultra calm, rational and parental and telling her not to be so stupid.  Been there many times.  

Maybe because you’re a lingchange like me!  

That's for sure!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Good morning all:

Hi October:

I must appologize:  Somehow....

...she is not very good at tuning into my feelings, and she and I have to work at ways of me communicating, and her understanding, what I am feeling.

I computed this to mean that you were having a hard time communicating what/how you are feeling about her and gave you a suggestion that you really didn't need.  

Duhhhhh! Sorry about that.

Anyway.......I love the idea of the messages in the mirror!  That is so nice!  Your daughter is very lucky to have such a mom!

GFN

[October]

Don't worry, GFN.  Communicating in written words is not easy.  Bits are bound to get misunderstood from time to time.  

((((((hugs)))))))