help for 12 yr old :}

[del'smom]

Hi,

My name is Anna. I've been looking for people to talk to about this for years with little success.

My life feels like the landscape left after the tsunami.... Thats what my mind feels like..  I have complex ptsd from a truly nasty alcoholic 'N' father. He held my head underwater, and many similar things to stop me from using 'my voice'. I was rebellious and he thrived on crushing me.   In 39 years (today is my birthday:) I have never submitted, even though hes beaten me physically and mentally and finally resorted to institutinalising me after I ran away from home @ 16.

after getting out of the mental hospital.... i was 'disowned' and put out of the will (my family is very wealthy) and had nothing to do with them for ten years.

I had a very difficult life becuase of everything they put me through, but  so happy to be free. Everything healthy about my life had to do with getting as far away from my 'family' as humanly possible... the farther away from them, the healthier i got.

All that was fine until 3 years ago when my 'relatives' did an awful thing. They betrayed me, its a long story, and they stole custody of my 8 year old daughter from me. I know with every cell in my body they are doing it to control and disempower me, (how else could they figure out a way to control my life when I am almost 40 years old) and continue the cycle of abuse..... they think they can make me jump through any hoop they want, by using my daughter as  bait.........which is precisely what they do......  

its made my hair go grey and gives me repeated nightmares that are absolutely horrifying.   i know more yoga and deep breathing and relaxation, and it really only goes so far.  I want these people OUT OF OUR LIFE.

if i dont submit and do all kinds of arbitrary humiliating things that make me want to kill myself,  in the way they 'approve' then I am not allowed contact and treated like a leper. did i mention im almost 40 years old?

the story would fill a book, but the bottom line is, despite everything I do she remains trapped there.... they listen to all our calls and if i speak in the wrong 'tone', they take the phone away and hang up. they lose our mail and control everything we do. the constand mind games are really getting to my daughter.

she is now 12..........  she tells me that -she- is having nightmares now, every few weeks. she is being bullied in school. she is writing poetry about knives, and broken glass, and a lot of mention of blood and betrayal and secrets and suicide. that is wayyyyyyyyyy out of character. theres so much i want to say to her,  but they monitor our interactions so strictly, that i cant talk to her. the first thing they told her when they took her was that im crazy, and the things i say should  absolutely not be listened to... a convenient way to disempower my 'voice'.

im in a constant struggle to deal with the fact that these maniacs i want nothing to do with basically control (for no good reason) every thing that is important to me.. and also to do something to help my daughter retain her sense of self, and help both of us assert ourselves. her mental state is really alarming me.

i noticed a 'delphine' here. thtas my girls name. hope to read and learn.
thanks
del'smom

[P]

Hi Anna, well, happy birthday for today and welcome to a place where I hope you’ll feel at home.

I read your post with horror. I’m so so sorry that they have taken your daughter. And I’m worried about your daughter too. I don’t know what to say.

Do you still see her? If so, how does that work – do they accompany her and so on? Please keep posting........best wishes, portia

[delphine]

Hi Sweetie,
I was knew I was going to reply while reading your post, but when I got to the end and read

i noticed a 'delphine' here. thtas my girls name. hope to read and learn.

That was a WOW! I ALSO have an almost 12 year old daughter and it broke my heart to read that she is having nightmares, etc. You've GOT to get her out of there..

Tell me about your attorney- is s/he forceful, resourceful enough? Are you in a small town or large city (how many lawyers/ resources are available?) Have you talked with women's resource advocates?

And, if I were you, I'd play their game enough to get your baby back, while fighting like mad behind their backs to strengthen your legal position. Just knowing that Mom is fighting for her, even if it means superficially complying in some ways, will give your daughter strength. You have to model for her how to deal with bullies. Sometimes you need to outsmart them, trick them, sometimes you need to get support from others to face them.

You are so smart and brave to not give up on your child or yourself. Keep that spirit!!! She is your natural child and you have legal rights, you just need to find a way to get the legal machine working for you, not them.

Happy birthday, and please give us more details,
Delphine

[longtire]

Happy Birthday, Anna.  You are welcome here.  I'm sorry to hear that you're going through such a hard time.  I have a couple of questions.  What was the basis for your family gaining custody of your daughter?  Was there something going on at the time, or was it based on past history?  Do you have a good lawyer?  Is there anything you can do legally over time to demonstrate that your daughter is safe with you?  Can you can get supervised visits with an independent person like a social worker, etc. rather than family?

[mum]

Anna: Oh, my heart aches for you.  I also have a 12 year old daughter.  It's a rough time for them in life.  I can't imagine what's it's like for you. My own uncomfortable parenting situation looks like utopia in comparison.

 You are brave, and announcing out loud how horrible things are for you (even if it's here) is the first step to healing.  I will shout it for you as well!!!  I will get behind you and send you whatever power I can.
I know everyone here will too.  This energy has power.  Call it prayer, call it whatever you want.  People can help.  All is not lost.  There is hope.

Do you have legal aid? If you can contact a mother's rights  organization, perhaps you could find a little muscle.  This situation must come to light, your family must be exposed.  Your power in this happening is within you. A mother's love.

Look forward, and feel how it would be to have your daughter back safe and sound.  Spend a few minutes a day at least thinking and feeling that.  Why not?  When I started this, I was afraid to, for I thought when I "woke up" from that nice day dream I would be dissapointed.  And I was, at first, however, I get to choose what I think.  I would rather day dream pleasant things.  Nothing will ever be created that is positive if you won't even let yourself THINK it first!

I know how those N's work.  They are masterful in forcing the "it will never end....you will never be free" mindset on us.  But our biggest weapon against them is our own MIND.  In your mind, you can think whatever you want.  Thoughts are what start EVERYTHING.  Look around you, everything you touch began as a thought.  That said, believe me, I know how tough it is to "reprogram" our thoughts (count 46 years of it for me, and without your horrible overt abuse, either!!!!).  But have faith, Anna.  It can be done.

You have already started this process.  Keep it going.  You can do it.  Amazing things happen in life.  Your life CAN turn around. You have nothing to lose (it's already been taken) by reclaiming your power.  Never underestimate a mother's love.  Do you see that you already have a bunch of people sending you love?  Love ALWAYS conquers fear.  It's like a light in a dark room.  The dark cannot win.  Keep sending your daughter love and healthy images....believe in this.  Believe in yourself.  
I do and I don't even know you.  Your life is painful, beyond description.  It will change. It happens all the time. Why not to you????

Bless you Anna.  Bless your daughter as well.  Sending you both light and love!!!

[Anonymous]

Welcome Anna,
There seem to be lot of people here with twelve year old daughters, me included. There's strength in numbers.
Your post is well stated, level headed and sensible. All I hear in your post is the anguish of a mother having a bunch of demons steal her child. But its kind of hard to know what your circumstances are as far as how they took her. If you are comfortable sharing the long story you will receive nothing but support here. If you're not comfortable, that's OK too.

Do you have legal help?
If not, have you contacted Legal Aid, the Legal Services Corporation or the local bar association? The local bar association usually has a list of lawyers who will help for free, if you are not in a position to pay. Maybe a local women's shelter could direct you to an attorney?
Did they put you through a psychological evaluation to steal her?
If so can you be reeavaluated?
Are you in therapy?
If so, is it helping?
Have you documented the things they do, to you and her? Things like 'losing' your mail or the arbitrary humiliating things they make you do.
Do you have any allies or friends there to support you?
You sound very intelligent. Do you have a plan on how to regain your daughter? Or have you been paralyzed by the turmoil?

I know its not easy opening up with this kind of stuff, but if you can give more info there are a lot of people here who could direct you to the right area for help. If what you have shared is all you can, that is OK.

In 39 years (today is my birthday:) I have never submitted, even though hes beaten me physically and mentally and finally resorted to institutinalising me after I ran away from home @ 16

You should be very proud of never submitting to him. That shows how strong you are. A mother who loves her daughter can do just about anything to protect her little girl.

It may not mean anything to you, I don't know, but I am going to pray very hard for you and your daughter. And I am going to pray against the evil people who are hurting you both.

mudpuppy

[Anonymous]

Hi Sweetie,
I was knew I was going to reply while reading your post, but when I got to the end and read

i noticed a 'delphine' here. thtas my girls name. hope to read and learn.

That was a WOW! I ALSO have an almost 12 year old daughter and it broke my heart to read that she is having nightmares, etc. You've GOT to get her out of there..

Thank you so much. yes - there arent many 'Delphines' around ;} so nice to meet you! Yes Im concerned for the nightmares. that isnt 'normal'. the funniest thing is my father is so deluded, he wil actually write to me telling me she is 'doing well socially'.  like.. weekly nightmares, bullying, and poems about broken glass and knives is 'doing well socially'??  hullo?

Tell me about your attorney- is s/he forceful, resourceful enough? Are you in a small town or large city (how many lawyers/ resources are available?) Have you talked with women's resource advocates?

no, no, and yes :}. i will write a different post about it since people asked about the legal aspects.

And, if I were you, I'd play their game enough to get your baby back, while fighting like mad behind their backs to strengthen your legal position.  

thanks for the b-day wishes. :} i totally agree with what you just said. this is exactly how ive been playing it. i 'lull' them by pretending to comply, while i put together strategy behind the scenes. thats how ive gotten all the rights i have right now.  i pretend to do what they want, to get what i want. but its very stressful, im a bad liar, and its real confusing for D. since our relatoinship, and my idea of 'love' is based on honesty and open communication, having to constantly 'lie' in effect, =especially= to my kid,  makes me feel =very= sick inside.

also they are such powerful brainwashers, they have tried real hard to convince her 'if i loved her' i would -stop- fighting, becuase im jst 'being selfish' and 'stubborn' becase 'if i loved her'  i would let them have their way.  they make it soooo excruciating for us to have the slightest contact, becuase they are hoping to make it so unpleasant that we dont even want to be together anymore. to some degree, its working. only they could make something so fantastic, (our relationship) into something thats literally 100% a drag.  shes under constant pressure from them to look down on me, devalue me, basically treat me the way they do, in order to 'be accepted' by them... if she doesnt treat me like dirt, -she- is treated like dirt.  its ALL pressure and control. but inside, i know she wants me to stand up for us.

what really hurts is to see her get more hopeless every year. she starts excusing them, denying herself. its just becuase she needs to survive there.. but, i know the damage its doing, it makes me crazy. how well they hide what they do, and shift the 'blame' to me...... it makes me crazy.

well..... i will write more.

i need very much to talk with people who understand these kind of people. most people in real life DONT. not at all. and it makes me feel =very= isolated. thanks so much again...... i know theres a way to get free. i wont stop working at it.
thanks
del'smom (anna)

[Anonymous]

Happy Birthday, Anna.  You are welcome here.  I'm sorry to hear that you're going through such a hard time.  I have a couple of questions.  What was the basis for your family gaining custody of your daughter?  Was there something going on at the time, or was it based on past history?  Do you have a good lawyer?  Is there anything you can do legally over time to demonstrate that your daughter is safe with you?  Can you can get supervised visits with an independent person like a social worker, etc. rather than family?

hi! thanks for replying. I read some of your story too and you seem like a really caring person. i will write a seperate post on what exactly they 'did'  to get her. it wasnt based on anything legal whatsoever.. they just have a lot of money and are ruthless and socially prominenet liars.. it was waht could be called a 'smash and grab'.  i will describe it in another post.

thanks so much for writing. it meaans SOOOOOOOO MUCH! thank you!
d's mom (anna)

[Anonymous]

Happy Birthday, Anna.  You are welcome here.  I'm sorry to hear that you're going through such a hard time.  I have a couple of questions.  What was the basis for your family gaining custody of your daughter?  Was there something going on at the time, or was it based on past history?  Do you have a good lawyer?  Is there anything you can do legally over time to demonstrate that your daughter is safe with you?  Can you can get supervised visits with an independent person like a social worker, etc. rather than family?

hi! thanks for replying. I read some of your story too and you seem like a really caring person. i will write a seperate post on what exactly they 'did'  to get her. it wasnt based on anything legal whatsoever.. they just have a lot of money and are ruthless and socially prominenet liars.. it was waht could be called a 'smash and grab'.  i will describe it in another post.

thanks so much for writing. it meaans SOOOOOOOO MUCH! thank you!
d's mom (anna)

[Anonymous]

Anna: Oh, my heart aches for you.  I also have a 12 year old daughter.  It's a rough time for them in life.  I can't imagine what's it's like for you. My own uncomfortable parenting situation looks like utopia in comparison.

 You are brave, and announcing out loud how horrible things are for you (even if it's here) is the first step to healing.  I will shout it for you as well!!!  I will get behind you and send you whatever power I can.
I know everyone here will too.  This energy has power.  Call it prayer, call it whatever you want.  People can help.  All is not lost.  There is hope.

Do you have legal aid? If you can contact a mother's rights  organization, perhaps you could find a little muscle.  This situation must come to light, your family must be exposed.  Your power in this happening is within you. A mother's love.

Look forward, and feel how it would be to have your daughter back safe and sound.  Spend a few minutes a day at least thinking and feeling that.  Why not?  When I started this, I was afraid to, for I thought when I "woke up" from that nice day dream I would be dissapointed.  And I was, at first, however, I get to choose what I think.  I would rather day dream pleasant things.  Nothing will ever be created that is positive if you won't even let yourself THINK it first!

I know how those N's work.  They are masterful in forcing the "it will never end....you will never be free" mindset on us.  But our biggest weapon against them is our own MIND.  In your mind, you can think whatever you want.  Thoughts are what start EVERYTHING.  Look around you, everything you touch began as a thought.  That said, believe me, I know how tough it is to "reprogram" our thoughts (count 46 years of it for me, and without your horrible overt abuse, either!!!!).  But have faith, Anna.  It can be done.!

this was all so nice that i had to quote almost all of it. i agree i agree i agree !! and im so thankful for freedom to speak and be who i really am.. (i would do it anyway, just usually i get punished for it) and the positivity, and the NOT telling me its my fault or in my head or im 'exaggerating' or the one i really hate, usually from people who hve never met them, 'they wouldnt really do that'.....

they are so good at making people feel hopeless, powerless, defeated, useless, like nothing. they send these messages,  so that noone ever sees it. no scars, no bruises, not any more.  just incredibly sophisticated emotional torture, scars on the heart, that im not sure can be changed. i REALLY need to be around people who CALL A SPADE A SPADE a spade a spade a spade!!!!!!!!!!!!! for my own sanity, to keep it together and set this all right. talking openly and feeling positive is a pre-requisite for my mental health.
sooooooooooooo good to be here. thank you so much.
d's mom (anna)

[Anonymous]

Welcome Anna,
There seem to be lot of people here with twelve year old daughters, me included. There's strength in numbers.

yes. im very happy to see this. i remember how i was as a teenager after how i was raised, and im lucky to be alive..

If you are comfortable sharing the long story you will receive nothing but support here. If you're not comfortable, that's OK too.

yes i would like to write waht happened.  im thankful for the opportunity.  i want to answer thse questions one by one becuase they are part of why im here trying to learn and find solutions.

Do you have legal help?

ok. this has been very complicated. ive had an awful lot of trouble with this. ive contact a lot of peopl, but its a very tough sell.  i receive disability, so i am very very low income. i have a supposed 'mental health' background, which lawyers avoid like the plague, & my parents are not only wealthy but also influential doctors with political connections. additionally they live in california, and i live in oregon.  so its -very- tough to find anyone that wants to take on something so complicated and something so likely to be long, drawn out, expensive, and ugly.

i have found lawyers that will take the case pro bono, beucase they =all= say the evidence supports me, but when they find out who im going against, they have 'suddenly' dropped out.  

my parents have so many connections in the system, that when i asked the judge to order us to mediate,  the court-appointed mediator ended up being a personal friend of theirs...so this has been a very very sticky problem.

after seeing me fight them for two years representing myself,  an uncle took pity on me and gave $4000 to hire a real attorny for the final hearing. this guy basically told me they had 'no case', not to worrry about it, which all the attorneys have said. i tried to warn him about my family and what they can do. but he underestimated them, was totally unprepared, and did such a poor job that my own mother thought he threw the case.. then he droped out when i wouldnt pay him any more. he just wanted to keep sucking money out of my uncle for doing nothing.  after 3 years, ive come to believe i need a really personally dedicated lawyer that has real chutzpah for this one. it will be a special case. still looking.

since what my parents did was verging on the illegal.... iim kind of hoping to find a lawyer that sees a way to not only go in and turn over what they did, but also then sue them civilly for what theyve done to us, thereby getting paid.

in other words - trying to turn my familys 'deep pockets' to an advantage, rather than disadvantage. im going to answer the rest in another post.

thanks for giving me the chance to sort some of this out. ;}
d's mom (anna)

[Anonymous]

Did they put you through a psychological evaluation to steal her?
If so can you be reeavaluated?

ok im continuing these questions. thanks so much for helping me lay this out. as far as psych eval: also very weird. i got fully evaluated by my own personal psychiatrist, and my peresonal therapist up here. also my daughters teacher and several other people involved. all these people wrote sworn affidavits that i was totally competent to make decisions and care for my daughter, but none of it was admitted as evidence! in other words, they didnt even read the recommendations of my *own* doctors regarding my health. i begged the judge to order an evaluation for me, since i know id pass. they wouldnt do it. so - ??

i also had myself evaluated, at a cost of $1000, by a special family evaluator who was supposed to actually testify. well, they didnt allow her testimony either. she told me i was one of the best motheres she evaluated in 30 years. she interviewed me several times, each time i had to travel to california at my own expense. and yet, her testimiony, was not admittted by the judge. a couple of attorneys told me that was appealable, but not without thousands of dollars.

additionally, my father hired a 'therapist' with only a few years experience, who had *never* persoenaly spoken to me, seen me, or met me one time..... but her testimony that i was unfit, was considered  admissable. so, that was all really fishy to me.

just recently my therapist told me, that if she had been taken by child services or any normal agency, not only would it not have happened in the first place, but i would have long ago met any normal requirements and gotten her back.  but there was no plan given me, nothing to comply with, nothing to work for.  the only requirement is acting like my parents want, and as we all  know, theres NO winning there.  every day its something different, no goals, no clarity, no timeline, no plan. just them dangling me on a string.

the whole thing about this, is that its never been based on facts to begin with, and so theres has been nothing factual i can provide anyone (so far) to counter it. ive had professionals telling them from the begiinning this is not necessary.. doctors and therapists all over the place..  i just cant seem to get them heard..

Are you in therapy?
If so, is it helping?

ive been in a lot of therapy. its on and off. i have a hard time getting even therapists to really understand my family. i am looking for a new one right now that will be -really- on top of this kind of thing. thats one thing im looking for guidance on. im tired of having therapists enable my parents.. becuase they 'cant see' what they do or they 'ddont blieve' people could really be like that. i am looking for a more 'with it' therapist rigit now.

Have you documented the things they do, to you and her? Things like 'losing' your mail or the arbitrary humiliating things they make you do.

i document everything.

Do you have any allies or friends there to support you?

very, very few. its real isolating. last question next post.
thanks, anna.

[Anonymous]

Did they put you through a psychological evaluation to steal her?
If so can you be reeavaluated?

ok im continuing these questions. thanks so much for helping me lay this out. as far as psych eval: also very weird. i got fully evaluated by my own personal psychiatrist, and my peresonal therapist up here. also my daughters teacher and several other people involved. all these people wrote sworn affidavits that i was totally competent to make decisions and care for my daughter, but none of it was admitted as evidence! in other words, they didnt even read the recommendations of my *own* doctors regarding my health. i begged the judge to order an evaluation for me, since i know id pass. they wouldnt do it. so - ??

i also had myself evaluated, at a cost of $1000, by a special family evaluator who was supposed to actually testify. well, they didnt allow her testimony either. she told me i was one of the best motheres she evaluated in 30 years. she interviewed me several times, each time i had to travel to california at my own expense. and yet, her testimiony, was not admittted by the judge. a couple of attorneys told me that was appealable, but not without thousands of dollars.

additionally, my father hired a 'therapist' with only a few years experience, who had *never* persoenaly spoken to me, seen me, or met me one time..... but her testimony that i was unfit, was considered  admissable. so, that was all really fishy to me.

just recently my therapist told me, that if she had been taken by child services or any normal agency, not only would it not have happened in the first place, but i would have long ago met any normal requirements and gotten her back.  but there was no plan given me, nothing to comply with, nothing to work for.  the only requirement is acting like my parents want, and as we all  know, theres NO winning there.  every day its something different, no goals, no clarity, no timeline, no plan. just them dangling me on a string.

the whole thing about this, is that its never been based on facts to begin with, and so theres has been nothing factual i can provide anyone (so far) to counter it. ive had professionals telling them from the begiinning this is not necessary.. doctors and therapists all over the place..  i just cant seem to get them heard..

Are you in therapy?
If so, is it helping?

ive been in a lot of therapy. its on and off. i have a hard time getting even therapists to really understand my family. i am looking for a new one right now that will be -really- on top of this kind of thing. thats one thing im looking for guidance on. im tired of having therapists enable my parents.. becuase they 'cant see' what they do or they 'ddont blieve' people could really be like that. i am looking for a more 'with it' therapist rigit now.

Have you documented the things they do, to you and her? Things like 'losing' your mail or the arbitrary humiliating things they make you do.

i document everything.

Do you have any allies or friends there to support you?

very, very few. its real isolating. last question next post.
thanks, anna.

[Anonymous]

Welcome Anna!

Thank you for sharing your story.  Even though I don't know who you are, I'm so sorry that you had to endure such hardship in your life.     I'm not sure how you feel about this, but I believe those who treat you badly will have to answer to a higher authority for their actions on this earth.  Justice will be served.

A rainbow appears after a rainstorm, right?  Keep being strong for your daughter and for yourself, Anna.   Goodness prevails over evil in the final analysis.  You are no longer alone on this journey.

[Anonymous]

Did they put you through a psychological evaluation to steal her?
If so can you be reeavaluated?

ok im continuing these questions. thanks so much for helping me lay this out. as far as psych eval: also very weird. i got fully evaluated by my own personal psychiatrist, and my peresonal therapist up here. also my daughters teacher and several other people involved. all these people wrote sworn affidavits that i was totally competent to make decisions and care for my daughter, but none of it was admitted as evidence! in other words, they didnt even read the recommendations of my *own* doctors regarding my health. i begged the judge to order an evaluation for me, since i know id pass. they wouldnt do it. so - ??

i also had myself evaluated, at a cost of $1000, by a special family evaluator who was supposed to actually testify. well, they didnt allow her testimony either. she told me i was one of the best motheres she evaluated in 30 years. she interviewed me several times, each time i had to travel to california at my own expense. and yet, her testimiony, was not admittted by the judge. a couple of attorneys told me that was appealable, but not without thousands of dollars.

additionally, my father hired a 'therapist' with only a few years experience, who had *never* persoenaly spoken to me, seen me, or met me one time..... but her testimony that i was unfit, was considered  admissable. so, that was all really fishy to me.

just recently my therapist told me, that if she had been taken by child services or any normal agency, not only would it not have happened in the first place, but i would have long ago met any normal requirements and gotten her back.  but there was no plan given me, nothing to comply with, nothing to work for.  the only requirement is acting like my parents want, and as we all  know, theres NO winning there.  every day its something different, no goals, no clarity, no timeline, no plan. just them dangling me on a string.

the whole thing about this, is that its never been based on facts to begin with, and so theres has been nothing factual i can provide anyone (so far) to counter it. ive had professionals telling them from the begiinning this is not necessary.. doctors and therapists all over the place..  i just cant seem to get them heard..

Are you in therapy?
If so, is it helping?

ive been in a lot of therapy. its on and off. i have a hard time getting even therapists to really understand my family. i am looking for a new one right now that will be -really- on top of this kind of thing. thats one thing im looking for guidance on. im tired of having therapists enable my parents.. becuase they 'cant see' what they do or they 'ddont blieve' people could really be like that. i am looking for a more 'with it' therapist rigit now.

Have you documented the things they do, to you and her? Things like 'losing' your mail or the arbitrary humiliating things they make you do.

i document everything.

Do you have any allies or friends there to support you?

very, very few. its real isolating. last question next post.
thanks, anna.