I need help to survive

[Joey]

I'm new to this group and a little nervous talking about my personal life, but here goes.  I have two narcisstic parents, 1 N sister, 1 N brother, and a brother who is an enabler.  I moved away 33 years ago and it has taken me this long, and psychiatric help, to realize how I was disliked, used, emotionally abused, rejected, and deeply hurt by my entire immediate family members.  Iv'e been on anxiety and depression meds for many years and am told that I have been so indoctrinated, that I may need them for a lifetime.   My story can go on and on since I'm 54 years old and have vivid memories of this abuse from the age of 3.  

I finally cut off all ties after much work, on my part alone, to learn to love them for who they are.  But, I never came away from a converstaion with them without feeling guilty, hurt, insignificant, and confused.  My biggest problem is "honor they mother and father" which I feel I am no longer doing.  Does anyone out there have any comments to my problem?  I am also having a hard time knowing that my siblings don't care about me unless they have something to gain.  

[Anonymous]

Hi Joey,

The "honor thy parents" theme comes up frequently in this group. My take on it is that "honor thy mother and father" allows N-victims to tolerate more abuse (including self-hate) when they aren't yet ready to protect themselves. When a person is ready to protect themselves, they see the difference between honoring a parent and tolerating abuse from a parent. It's something that kind of happens when you're ready. I'm not sure you can force it.


bunny

[miaxo]

Welcome Joey.

I don't think you are doing anything in particular to "dishonor" your parents.  It sounds like you are getting the help and attention that you need in order to cope and function in the world.  

I can't imagine your devestation of losing an entire family to N so I won't pretend to know.  Your parents made a choice to act the way in which they are acting.  I'm sure that only intensifies the loss that much more.
In situations like these I wonder if it would easier for an individual to comprehend the loss of their entire family to a tsunami (in no way am I minimizing this tragedy) as opposed to losing an entire family to something as pathetic as Narcissism??? Just thinking out loud.

Joey, I hope you stick around here and find the extra support you are looking for.  

God bless you.
Mia

[Jaded911]

Hi Joey,

I understand how you feel.  Someone once asked me if I would cry at my mom's funeral.  I said I would cry but the tears would be for the mother I DESERVED to have, not the one that I had.

A lifetime of negativity would make a saint question their worth.  Dont you let them have that power Joey.  The little boy that so desperately sought out love and approval still hides deep within the man you are today.  Take a deep look inside your heart and soul and find that little boy and give him the naturing and nurturing that he longed to have.

IMHO when that little boy realizes that it wasnt his fault that his family was incapable of loving, one hell of a man will emerge!  Whoever said that it was "better to have loved and lost then to have never loved at all" obviously never knew the sting of a Narci.  But you know what Joey, love isnt in a Narci's vocabulary.  They cant love and they sure in the hell dont feel a loss when someone breaks free from their tangled web they weave.  They put blame on that person and consider theirselves the victims.  

You LIVE your life, dont just exist in life because of their lack of ability to make you feel worthy of the life they gave you.

[sleepyhead]

Hi Joey, welcome. As far as the "honour thy mother and thy father" goes, I would like you to look at it from another point of view. Was your mother a mother to you? Was your father a father? N's aren't capable of being "real" parents, and this, I think, absolves us from the obligation to honour them. There is nothing there to honour. Well, just my opinion, feel free to disregard it if you want, I'm not even religious so don't really know what I'm talking about.

[longtire]

Hi Joey, welcome!

We all need (emotional) help to survive.  I'm glad you are aware of this. A lot of people are not. My understanding is that unless you have a genetic or chronic physical problem, you would not need medication after you have dealt with the core psychological issues that cause the anxiety, stress, depression, etc.  Who told you that you might need medication for the rest of your life?  Were they saying they thought you actually did, or just that you "might?"

I think that the fact you are concerned whether you are honoring your parents "enough" shows that you DO honor them, to the extent it is safe and healthy.  You seem to be comparing honoring that you are able to do based on THEIR behavior to some "ideal" and judging that you fall short.  If they truly want to honored more by you, they need to change their behavior to wllow that.  I agree with bunny that this commandment was never intended to subject the child to abuse of any kind.

[Anonymous]

Welcome Joey:

I am 56 and was raise by and N father and probably a bipolar mother.  I have two N brothers.  I was also "invisible", of no worth, devalued etc.  Welcome to this club of survivors.  The very fact you NOW know what the problem is, you will be able to confront life on different terms.  

I came to the realization that no matter what I did (going home for visits, making the phone calls, making the effort to be family) was there going to be any return on their part.  Your family and mine are simply to self absorbed to notice anything outside their "little universe".  I decided that I would take care of myself, hence no more phone calls, no more visits.  If they wished to call then they would call, if not then I would cope with that as well.  I have also come to terms with who and what they are, what they can and cannot do for me (which is very little).  I can only love them from a distance.  Anything else would subject me to their Nness and I protect myself just as if I were protecting another person from their Nness.  

Please do not be shy about relating your experiences.  We are all suvivors and this board will help immensely in your growth.  Just let it flow and if you want to reveal bits and pieces that will be ok to.  

Patz

[Joey]

For all of you that have sent me a reply and encouragement so quickly, I can never thank enough.    I have been told by three different psychs that the psychological damage done to a child's brain the first three years of life can create a person prone to anxiety and depression.  Makes parenting a scarry thing doesn't it?  

[vunil]

Hi, Joey--

I can relate to your reluctance to break from your parents completely.  It's a tough thing to do, and many of us are struggling with it.

This morning I was thinking about this issue and I was feeling guilty that I don't want my parents here when my child is born. I just don't.  I think it would really hurt them for me to tell them that, which fills me with shame and remorse. It would devastate them.

And then I remembered two things-- 1.  I spent a lot of time devastated and they didn't do a thing to help me, in fact they were the cause of my pain, and 2.  Everyone reaps what they sow.  If you want your child to feel normal child feelings toward you, you have to act within the range of normal parent.  If you do not, then maybe they won't. If you are selfish because you feel like it, then fine, but people notice-- and children especially notice.  


I am not sure I'll ever cut things off completely, but these two revelations helped me give myself permission to let go of my guilt.   Maybe there is something there for you? If not, I do send my support and empathy!

Oh, and do keep in mind we all obsess about what *they* want/need/might feel hurt by, etc. because they taught us to do that.  We put them ahead of ourselves more than we should because that's what they like.  [expletive] that!  It's not a way to live.

[Anonymous]

Hi Joey and Welcome:

Sorry you have had to endure such an devistating childhood and especially for the

 vivid memories of this abuse from the age of 3.

That is so awful and so unfair!!  No wonder you suffer from anxiety and depression.  Who wouldn't?

I don't think the effects of thier treatment of you have to last forever though.  I really believe that in time, we are capable of healing from such experiences, but it takes a lot of effort and work.

I also think one must be honourable in order to be honoured.

Your parents acted dishonourably, to say the least, so how much honour do they deserve?  Not much, if you ask me.

I don't think God meant for us to tolerate abuse and worship parents who treat us abusively.

I think He may have meant that Honourable parents deserve to be honoured and not to do so, in such cases, is dishonourable on our part.

You are not acting dishonourably by not honouring abusive parents.

You can still be polite and respectful without glorifying them, in any contact that you might have with them.
And you can preserve their dignity by not being abusive, by not treating them the way they've treated you yet, without pretending they have any special merit, or giving them extra credit, where it is not earned or deserved.

Are you a parent yourself now, or thinking about becoming one?

GFN

[2cents]

Dear Joey,

Are you the youngest child in this family? Don't know why, but I get that impression...

I'm so sorry for all the things that you've been through. I hope you don't give up hope,

2cents

[mum]

Welcome, Joey.  I didn't suffer with N parents, but my children suffer with one (my ex).  I am so sorry that your life has been so difficult, it truly breaks my heart as a mother (and a sentient being)  but the good news is: you know what you are not. (see the "good thing about having an N" thread!)

The first definition of honor in Webster's is:
"honesty, fairness, or integrity in ones' beliefs and actions."

I think I heard the word honor as a child used interchangebly with obey. I had them confused for years.
I now know, that for us to honor anyone else, we must first honor ourselves.  First and foremost, or we are not acting with integrity or honesty or fairness, but a facade of such.
For many of us, this is in direct contradicition to the "OBEY me, do what I want you to do in order to be a good person" that we have learned (from N abuse, or in my case, organized religion).  We form our core belief system on that early information, as you did, and even though it is totally UNTRUE, it's pretty hard to re-wire it all.  But it can be done.  You have been doing such work, so you know that.

If you want to truly honor anyone in your life, even someone who does not deserve your respect at all (and your family sure as heck doesn't) then the TRULY honorable thing to do is what you have done:
be true to yourself, honor yourself first.  
Your horrific "family" may not deserve even a phone call, but you can honor what they do deserve: the bed they made, the mistakes they are paying for, the life they created.  They get to own all of it.  Go ahead and honor that.  (and you don't have to "do" anything, but take care of yourself.  Bless you.

[Joey]

Dear 2cents, I'm actually the oldest in the family and was the mother of 5 of them - my three siblings and 2 parents.

Dear Guest, I have three grown children who love me and support my decision to cut family ties.  They have never had a real relationship with their grandparents, aunt, and uncles.

[Stormchild Guesting]

Hi Joey --

Lots of folks here have touched on the honor thy parents theme, but since it's from the OT, I thought I'd follow up with something from the NT. I don't know your faith background (if I missed it in a post I apologize) but hopefully this will help - and I'm not trying to evangelize you; I promise. I just wanted to respond in the same spiritual context as that in which this issue is so often set:

First - per some of the gospel writings, JC himself said, "who among you, if your child asks for bread, would give him a stone? or if your child asks you for a fish, would give him a snake? Therefore if you, being imperfect, yet know how to give your children good things, so does your Father in Heaven know how to give His children good things."

Everybody looks at this in terms of what JC is saying about God. Look instead at what he is implying about good parenting! He's basically saying that it is unthinkable - UNTHINKABLE! - for a parent to respond to a child's authentic needs with cruelty, with evil, with destructive harm.

This is the same guy who did things, according to gospel reports, like healing a sick man on Shabbat, and gleaning on Shabbat as he and his ancient yeshiva were crossing a field, and hungry; and when criticized about this, asserted that Shabbat was created for man, not vice versa. Again, he's saying that human needs are respected and honored -- by GOD.

Later, in the epistles, Paul points out that parents should not exasperate their children. He's said something about children respecting parents just before. Remember, Paul was an extremely learned Talmudic scholar... so his interpretation wouldn't be off the wall, here. He's pointing out, very clearly, that it is supposed to go both ways.

That's it for the ecumenical Christian seminar   . The point I wanted to make is pretty clear in these bits... that business about honoring your parents was not intended to give parents carte blanche to abuse their kids.

Sometimes, all you can do is honor the intended relationship, by refusing to participate in a travesty of it. This hurts like crazy, but there's another bit - in Psalm 27 - "For my father and my mother have forsaken me, but the Lord will take me up."

Again, I'm not intending to evangelize. This is my faith tradition, and the point of faith is to comfort and encourage and so forth.  Years ago I realized that I had a lot of nerve calling myself a Christian when I hadn't even read the Christian scriptures through. So I did, Genesis to Revelation, and I find there is comfort and encouragement in them in ways that are quite different than a lot of folks suppose. Such as the above. So I hope this helps. It is rather different than what one normally expects, isn't it?  

((((Joey))))

Stormchild

[Anonymous]

Stormchild:

Yeah that!
Great post.

Mia