validation & anger - kind of a rant, please forgive me

[d's mom]

Anna, I know from my own experience how important it is to get your anger and rage under control. It needs to be channeled into productive action so the outcome is good, rather than just bursting out when they provoke you. As long as you react to them by being angry, they will be in control of your behavior and always able to push your buttons. Then your own behavior starts to back up their claims. All of this is easy to say and pretty easy to understand, but very, very hard to do. Detaching and choosing my own reaction has helped me immensely.

i started a new thread with this, becuase its something ive been wanting to ask about anyway. this was in response to something i wrote in another post, about feeling angry at the horribly disrespectful things being done right now to myself and much worse an innocent child. whats going on makes me furious, but comments like the one above, even though they were well meant and sincere,  really upset me.

becuase, it invalidates, even unintentionally, (so thats why im not holding it against you longtire > (im not upset with you, its just a sore spot) who i am as a person. thank you however for giving me the opportunity for a nice soul-cleansing rant, and also to bring up a topic ive been thinking about which is the value of validating anger to heal.

im not upset with longtire as a person or what he said, becuase i think hes a fine person and meant it well, and theroetically, i also agree with his viewpoint.

HOWEVER. that being said -  you make a lot of assumptions that it applies to me, and i want to say honestly it makes me feel very insulted, and its a very sore spot for me, because im just tired of getting crap thrown at me i dont deserve. for one, =who says= im reacting inappropriately? =who says= my behavior has been inappropriate? i do NOT deserve the crap they have thrown at me, and i wont own it, and i wont let anyboy convince me that i should.  (yes im mad, but this is a rant remember! )

i have NEVER lost my temper with them, never cursed, never yelled, never once, no matter how they provoke. it insults me deeply, to be called inappropriate, even in passing, when all im doing is feeling a perfectly natural feeling, that of wanting to rip these people to shreds for hurting my child, and -still- exhibiting self-control that mother teresa could learn from. i do NOT react inappropriately to these feelings, and i doubt many people could show the self control that i have under these circumstances. my behavior has NOTHING TO DO with what they think about me. i learned that at age 3. it wouldnt matter what i did or didnt do.  my 'faults' EXIST IN THEIR MIND AND THEIR MIND ONLY, AND I WONT OWN IT.

constant invalidation of my entirely appropriate feelings, (done constatnly by my parents and way too many other people which is why im really not liking it) which i =am= channeling and expressing in a completly appropriate way, despite pressure that im sure many people would probably not be able to withstand, is =constant= salt in this wound.

certainly nobody can say, my feelings are inappropriate. a pereson cannot control their feelings, and should not. to tel them they should, is to deny them their validity as a human being. a person can only choose their reactions to their feeligs, and the choices they make as a result of their feelings.  

my actions, attitude, and outlook continue to be positive and productive DESPITE constant disrespect and provocation - and direct violation of my maternal instinct which any mother knows, brings up fury like no other - no matter what they try to force down my throat or make me own. i wont own it. it isnt mine. its THEIRS.  my anger is normal, its healthy, its honest, its real, its mine, its human, and i =wont= apologise for it, and im really tired of feeling lectured about it and having people just assume somehow im doing somethign wrong.

i *know* your comment was meant to be kind and helpful, and it was good advice too... but, this has just been hurting me for so long, i just cant take it anymore, feeling blamed for being the target of abuse. it isnt my problem. it just isnt. i just wont take it....  its not mine.. i wont take it.. what i could use a lot more, is VALIDATION. the #1 reason this will not heal, 9/10 of my problem, is constant continual and total invalidation of my feelings.

i have learned you get what you need by asking. so, there it is. this is a -really- realy really really sore spot for me right now.
im interested to know others experience, with validation and anger. i know our abusers will never validate us. but that doesnt mean we still cant use it.
thank you, please dont take personally longtire - you just hit a reeally bad nerve,
d's mom

[Anonymous]

also i didnt mean to seem fakey with that smiley face, it went in there by accident. i dont know how to do all this stuff yet.
thank you.

[Anonymous]

Well D's mom, that was certainly a good rant, as far as rants go, and you get an A for it.

Ranting is good.  Taking care not to harm others, especially those who do not deserve to be harmed, is better..... but being imperfect, we don't always do that, do we?

I understand that Longtire assumed you burst out when provoked.  Is that what happened here?

You state that you haven't done that with your parents (and I am trying to imagine how tempting that must be and how good it might feel for you to do that???).  I don't blame you, though, for not doing it.  That would be dangerous.

I do think, in the long run, Longtire's advice is very good.  If only the energy from that anger can be channelled into achieving your ultimate goal......well think of the possibilities and smile.

I don't think anyone is asking you, or expecting you to own any of the crap your parents have put on you.    My bet is most people here understand exactly how appropriate your feelings are toward them and how those are your feelings and how valid that all is.

a person can only choose their reactions to their feeligs, and the choices they make as a result of their feelings.

I totally agree with you.  This thread was your choice of how to react to your feelings of anger and validation.

Your anger is valid.  I doubt anyone would argue that.

Your choice of how to ask for that validation.......may be worth a second look??  Maybe?

Take care, D's mom.  Hope you are feeling better.

GFN

[mum]

D's mom: go ahead. Let me rant along with you.

Seriously, I don't think there is anything wrong with anything you have said, no matter what or whose words may have triggered it.  I'm not even sure Longtire meant it this way, but you are right, the worst thing anyone can do, is deny or try to change how they really FEEL, without getting to express it, out loud first!  YELL and scream, go ahead.  This is a great place to do it.  Announce loud and clear how you feel....do it!

I'm not going to tell you how to "change it', that is exactly NOT what you need right now.  I'm sure you will know or find out what to do with this negative stuff when it's time....but it's simply not time, if you are not done expressing it.  And even when you do find a way to let go of it or whatever, negative emotions come up again and again and again (as long as you are alive).  You may learn ways to spend less and less time holding on to them (as I have) but no one ever gets totally "away" from that human-ness.
So right now, go ahead and express away.
I had a real scream fest a while ago, swearing and damning my ex as best I could (not to his face, mind you).....it is a necessary part of this whole process.  I had to identify and express how I felt way before I could transform it or let it go....
You can't "let go" of something unless you have it  in the first place, so go ahead, be pissed off.... own that feeling!  I for one, would never assume that means someone is using this energy (that was probably dumped on them in the first place) in an innapropriate way.  It just IS.  Say it and mean it.  
So much of my life (as you also describe) was spent listening to people tell me my feelings were not valid.....HUH? They are MY feelings... (damnit!)
I OWN THEM and I will do what I need to with them.  
FIRST STEP in healing!  It's just the first step and as long as I don't just stay there, screaming mad, forever, I will be fine.  I MUST walk through that dogdoo, to get to a better place. We all must. So what's wrong with going ahead and saying: "this S**T stinks!!!!"?

[Anonymous]

I understand that Longtire assumed you burst out when provoked.  Is that what happened here?

hi gfn ;} no, its not. what happened here was a straw breaking a camels back... what happened here was hoping i finally had found a safe place to let it all out (which i think i have) and i tried *realy* hard to do it without hurting anyone.. and i (hope) that i apologised enough times to let people know that wasnt my intent...

You state that you haven't done that with your parents (and I am trying to imagine how tempting that must be and how good it might feel for you to do that???).  I don't blame you, though, for not doing it.

no, i never do that with my parents, though they would love it if i did, and they tell everyone i do anyway. the main reason i dont, is exactly becuase i know its what they want, and that they would use it againt me instantly. i have a lot more self control than that - and im a lot smarter - than to play that game. the thing is, that means ive had to repress a lot of really powerful feelings, and thta is never healthy.  (again longtire, i hope i explained enough, it wasnt you!!!!)

additionally, sooooooo many people have me 'pigeonholed' as this 'unreasonable', dangerous person (becuase of the many lies that have been spread about me) that i cant make a sandwich without getting blamed for something, and it just gets to be a sore spot after awhile. you mentioned dreams: i have a lot of very vivid dreams. i have a lot of dreams where my family is torturing me and trying to lock me up. just a few nights ago, i dreamed they were torturing me and torturing me unti i got angry. then they pointed to me and said, "see, shes crazy".

that is the story of my life. they torture me until im angry, then use my  totally natural feelings to pigeonhole me as someone with a 'problem'. its a way to control, and after awhile, it does make a person very very angry inside, especially when people i dont even know seem to be buying into it. its a long, old frustration from many years ago.

I do think, in the long run, Longtire's advice is very good.

i do too and i told him that. as mum said - im not ready for that yet. i just need to express it first.

I don't think anyone is asking you, or expecting you to own any of the crap your parents have put on you.    My bet is most people here understand exactly how appropriate your feelings are toward them and how those are your feelings and how valid that all is.

i agree, and it was unfair of me to lay all that on this group. i do apolgise and that wasnt clear. the issue is that ive heard sooooo many times, for so many years, that it -is- my problem and that i -am- being unreasonable, and why cant i just do what my parenst say, and on and on. ive heard it sooo many times, even from people supposed to be 'helping' me, that its a sore spot.

i know from what ive read, that people here, know about lies being told, and all of that. i know the people here will understand my frustration, and how these people spread lies, and how much of a trap it can feel like mentally after awhile. i just feel so trapped, an animal in a cage. i didnt mean to be snarly with a friend.

thanks for your reply :}
sincerely,
d'smom

[Anonymous]

FIRST STEP in healing!  It's just the first step and as long as I don't just stay there, screaming mad, forever, I will be fine.  I MUST walk through that dogdoo, to get to a better place. We all must. So what's wrong with going ahead and saying: "this S**T stinks!!!!"?

mum - i love you already. i wish i had a mum like you. my own mum tells me that i 'like to be bad'. :{{{{{

i think emotions are like a river. they get dammed, and when they break, its ugly and theres a lot of flying sticks and mud and then you get the clear water.

i dont want to hurt anyone.
anna

[mum as guest]

Thanks, Anna...I think you are very loveable yourself!
Hopefully, my own children think I'm a good mom.
I just wrote a letter to my own mom, who you may have read, is dying.  I may send it and have someone read it, although I don't know if she is comprehending much now..or I will read it at her service.  But in it I said: "you have been what a mother should be: a teacher of love and a messenger of God."
That is what I believe mothering is about, bottom line.  I am sorry your mom wasn't capable of that....I'm glad you felt it from me.
"All you need is love" (ba ba ba ba ba).....the Beatles sure knew how to sum life up huh?
Sending you more.....

By the way, it never occurred to me ONCE that you were out to hurt anyone (I bet lots of folks would echo that!)

("you like to be bad" ???? oh please, let's talk projection! AWFUL, just awful....she is not a mother in body only, not in spirit!)

[longtire]

Anna, I've been trying to reply all day, but keep getting interrupted here at work.

Anna, I know from my own experience how important it is to get your anger and rage under control. It needs to be channeled into productive action so the outcome is good, rather than just bursting out when they provoke you. As long as you react to them by being angry, they will be in control of your behavior and always able to push your buttons. Then your own behavior starts to back up their claims. All of this is easy to say and pretty easy to understand, but very, very hard to do. Detaching and choosing my own reaction has helped me immensely.

i started a new thread with this, becuase its something ive been wanting to ask about anyway. this was in response to something i wrote in another post, about feeling angry at the horribly disrespectful things being done right now to myself and much worse an innocent child. whats going on makes me furious, but comments like the one above, even though they were well meant and sincere,  really upset me.

becuase, it invalidates, even unintentionally, (so thats why im not holding it against you longtire > (im not upset with you, its just a sore spot) who i am as a person. thank you however for giving me the opportunity for a nice soul-cleansing rant, and also to bring up a topic ive been thinking about which is the value of validating anger to heal.

Anna, I'm sorry I stepped on your emotional "toes."  That was not my intent, but I can see how my post could do that.  I believe you have every right to feel anger and fury about this situation.  It would be ridiculous of anyone to suggest otherwise (not that it stops N's from trying).  I was projecting myself onto the situation, because if what you describe happened to me I would not be very restrained, based on recent history of dealing with my own anger.

HOWEVER. that being said -  you make a lot of assumptions that it applies to me, and i want to say honestly it makes me feel very insulted, and its a very sore spot for me, because im just tired of getting crap thrown at me i dont deserve. for one, =who says= im reacting inappropriately? =who says= my behavior has been inappropriate? i do NOT deserve the crap they have thrown at me, and i wont own it, and i wont let anyboy convince me that i should.  (yes im mad, but this is a rant remember! )

Rant away!  It is good to get these things off your chest and share them with people who will care and support you.

I had 2 things in mind with my post.  The first was that you described your parents using evidence of your anger to try to prove some bogus point that it somehow makes you crazy.  What is the evidence that they see or hear to use against you?  It doesn't sound like your parents take your anger into account as important information, only as something else to manipulate to feel like they are in control.  I was trying to make the point that perhaps it would be better to not express anger around your parents at all if that is the case.  I realize this is way easier said than done.

The second point  was that even if you don't show the anger, if their behavior provokes these feelings in you, then perhaps you are not as detached as you might be.  They do not deserve to have that much influence with you.  You do not deserve to have to feel these perfectly reasonable responses to their irrational behaviors.  Even reacting only internally to their provocations is painful and I hope that is not the case for you.

i have NEVER lost my temper with them, never cursed, never yelled, never once, no matter how they provoke.

You are way ahead of me here.  I have done all of the above when pulled past my limits.  I am working hard to take good care of myself so that I don't behave that way anymore.

it insults me deeply, to be called inappropriate, even in passing,

I did not say, and do not believe, either you or your feelings were inappropriate in any way.

i have learned you get what you need by asking. so, there it is. this is a -really- realy really really sore spot for me right now.
im interested to know others experience, with validation and anger. i know our abusers will never validate us. but that doesnt mean we still cant use it.
thank you, please dont take personally longtire - you just hit a reeally bad nerve,
d's mom

I am sorry that you felt that I was not validating your feelings.  That was the opposite of my intention!  I do believe that you have every right to feel all kinds of anger about your parents selfish, infuriating behavior.  I hope that this anger does not either hurt your quality of life or get expressed in ways that end being used against you.

[promqueencasualty]

im interested to know others experience, with validation and anger. i know our abusers will never validate us. but that doesnt mean we still cant use it.

Dear d's mom,

First, let me tell you how sorry I am that you have had to(and still do) contend with such horrific people. I am outraged at your "family"(I put the word in quotes because as far as I am concerned, they tore-up their "family" card long ago) and the fact that they would put you and your child through such hell.

Regarding my experience with anger---for me it has been a coping mechanism since childhood. Crying was looked down upon in my family("Do you want me to GIVE you something to cry about?" was a commonly heard refrain in my home), and I am the product of two very angry parents, so as a child I guess that somewhere along the line I assimilated the idea that "crying=weakness, anger=strength."

I also think that anger is a natural outgrowth of the frustration a child experiences when the parent constantly minimizes, belittles or invalidates all of the child's other emotions.

Your family sounds very cunning(and I don't mean that in a complimentary way). It sounds as if they present themselves to the outside world as this neat little package, yet when no one is looking they're exacting terrible abuse upon you and your daughter. When you try and expose them for who they are, then they try and deflect the negative attention from themselves by saying, "It's not us, it's d's mom, SHE has an ANGER PROBLEM." It's so disgusting---people like this will NEVER accept accountability for their actions. What's worse yet is that they just cannot leave their intended targets the hell alone. They always need to have someone to dump-on.

I am the one in my family who has been labeled as "ANGRY," just because I am no longer willing to tolerate abuse at the hands of Nparents and Nsiblings. The sick thing is that now they label me as "cold" and "unemotional" because I don't cry in front of them(how sick is that, that they actually WANT to make me cry?) When confronted with all of their drama, I just put-up a "shield" of cold indifference, but underneath it all I am DEFINITELY angry with them. Over the years I have found anger easier to "compartmentalize"---I can still get through day-to-day living, be productive at work, blah, blah, blah...I guess that's why I instinctively turn toward anger(rather than some other emotion) when my family resurfaces with all of their unnecessary garbage.

I'm rooting for you and your daughter---I hope that you keep posting on this message board any time you need to, because it's important to let your voice be heard(especially since your family has wrongfully denied you of this basic right for far too long).

[Anonymous]

Anna, I'm sorry I stepped on your emotional "toes."  That was not my intent........ [/quote]

i know, and im sooooooooooo relieved you are not taking this personally.  im soooo so glad. pleeeease accept my apologies if you felt dumped on.

I had 2 things in mind with my post.  The first was that you described your parents using evidence of your anger to try to prove some bogus point that it somehow makes you crazy.  What is the evidence that they see or hear to use against you?  

NOTHING. its nonextistent. thats the thing. it exists in their brain. they make it up. its a fantasy. its projection. my father is the one with the anger problem. i dont go around holding little girls heads underwater and beating them and calling them sexual names and breaking their things and shooting at their friends with guns and screaming and yelling every day and being an alcoholic. HE is the one with the anger problem. what they are trying to pin on me is 1000000000000000000% grade A PROJECTION. there is no evidence. its projection, and their own sick fantasy. if i dont do it, they just make it up.

reality never bothered them too much. im not a person - im a role. im their garbage can. what i really do, or am, or think, is totally irrelevant, and if i refuse to play the part, they just make it up.  i moved thousands of miles away long ago, and have had no contact with them or any of their friends for 15 years.... most people dont know the real me.. so people just believe what they say. they make it up.

I was trying to make the point that perhaps it would be better to not express anger around your parents at all if that is the case.

im totally with you. the thing is, i -dont- express it. like i said, its a moot point, since they tell people i do anyway, no matter =what= i do, and they are good liars, and i live far away, and people believe them. they have me -framed-.

The second point  was that even if you don't show the anger, if their behavior provokes these feelings in you, then perhaps you are not as detached as you might be.  They do not deserve to have that much influence with you.

well ---- this is the beauty of their master plan. i am quite detached from them.... i really dont care at all what they do..... unfortunately, im very attached to my daughter. they could do backflips all day and i wouldnt care at all - but when they hurt my daughter right in front of me, day after day, and i have to hear about it from her, and she tells me shes having nightmares and is dissociating and has 'alter' personalities that she 'turns into', and on and on, and writes poetry about blood and knives and broken glass, and i have nightmares myself that all kinds of horrendous things happen to her and im unable to protect her or do anything, no mother can be detached from that. it isnt possible. inability to protect ones child evokes a deep, genetic fury that is  um.. hard to describe.

thats the evil genius of what they are doing, by holding my daughter hostage. they have finally found that thing, that will bring me to my knees. and they love it.

there is no way, really, to detach from caring that my daughter is being hurt.

I am sorry that you felt that I was not validating your feelings.  That was the opposite of my intention!  I do believe that you have every right to feel all kinds of anger about your parents selfish, infuriating behavior.

thank you.  i appreciate that. i learned long ago - it jut doesnt matter what i actually do. it never did. i dont exist to them. im a screen onto which they project their little games.

the only thing needed to make my feelings healthy, is to be understood, that my feelings are totally healthy. and that THEY are the one with the problem.

thanks for being understanding longtire :} didnt mean to be.. whatever i was.
d'smom


[/b][/quote]

[mum]

Anna: with all the people who post here, sometimes individual stories get forgotten..... and I wonder, honestly, when people remember what your situation is, if your anger toward your parents would not so much be examined, but instantly understood and lauded!
NOTHING, I mean NOTHING is more justifiable and understandable than a mother's righteous anger in protecting her child.  I think about my own situation and it's frustrations regarding my children and their N dad and step mom, then I multiply it by at least one hundred thousand, and maybe it would come close you feel.  Maybe.  I, for one, am surprised you are as clear headed as you are.
I think you are amazing.  One day soon, your daughter will know this firsthand.  Joan of Arc, perhaps (without the burning at the end) or some other heroic female figure, I have to think of it.....but that's how I see you.
Keep on.  You are amazing.

[Anonymous]

Hiya D's Mom/Anna and everyone:

I'm glad this thread has gone on the way it has.

 

what happened here was hoping i finally had found a safe place to let it all out (which i think i have) and i tried *realy* hard to do it without hurting anyone.. and i (hope) that i apologised enough times to let people know that wasnt my intent

...

In that case, I must appologize to you, Anna, because I think IIIIII was reacting to your post inappropriately and taking it the wrong way.  I am sorry and I hope you still feel safe here and I haven't added to your frustration.

You state that you haven't done that with your parents (and I am trying to imagine how tempting that must be and how good it might feel for you to do that???). I don't blame you, though, for not doing it.

no, i never do that with my parents, though they would love it if i did,

I would be tempted and probably lose it once or twice, at least because I am weak sometimes.  Good for you for keeping such a good check on yourself in thier presense.  It would only give them amunition.

and they tell everyone i do anyway.

&^%*()'n liars!!!  (now I'm ranting on your behalf!!! )

the thing is, that means ive had to repress a lot of really powerful feelings, and thta is never healthy.

And that's why it is a good thing you can come here and rant.

i have a lot of dreams where my family is torturing me and trying to lock me up. just a few nights ago, i dreamed they were torturing me and torturing me unti i got angry. then they pointed to me and said, "see, shes crazy".

Well.......I suppose you are releasing some of your anger through your dreams, which is probably a good thing too.

that is the story of my life. they torture me until im angry, then use my totally natural feelings to pigeonhole me as someone with a 'problem'. its a way to control, and after awhile, it does make a person very very angry inside, especially when people i dont even know seem to be buying into it. its a long, old frustration from many years ago.

This is in part, the story of my life too so believe me, please, when I say I totally understand your frustration and your anger.

I don't think anyone is asking you, or expecting you to own any of the crap your parents have put on you. My bet is most people here understand exactly how appropriate your feelings are toward them and how those are your feelings and how valid that all is.


i agree, and it was unfair of me to lay all that on this group. i do apolgise and that wasnt clear.

I think I thought you were laying it more solely on Longtire and because I know he would not mean you any harm by his suggestions, I guess I took your words as a bit hard on him.  Now my defending Longtire.....what the heck is that???  Injection?????  I tend to do that a lot!!

the issue is that ive heard sooooo many times, for so many years, that it -is- my problem and that i -am- being unreasonable, and why cant i just do what my parenst say, and on and on. ive heard it sooo many times, even from people supposed to be 'helping' me, that its a sore spot.

That is understandable.

i just feel so trapped, an animal in a cage. i didnt mean to be snarly with a friend.

Well........there are lot's of kind animal trainers here who will help you get out of your cage and see that you roam around, get to roll in the grass and play with your friends.    

I know that it seems like you are trapped because there is nothing you can do to immediately correct this situation.  I'm in a similar boat.  What honestly helped me a lot was to buy a bloody set of bongo drums and pound the kapoozas outta them!!!  Seriously!!  If you knew me, you would realize how ridiculous and halarious that vision of me is.

For that reason, I keep my talented performances for my pets only (2 doggies) and even they......get sore ears sometimes.

My prayers for you tonight that your situation will improve real soon!!

GFN

[longtire]

i know, and im sooooooooooo relieved you are not taking this personally.  im soooo so glad. pleeeease accept my apologies if you felt dumped on.

No problem.

NOTHING. its nonextistent. thats the thing. it exists in their brain. they make it up. its a fantasy. its projection. my father is the one with the anger problem. i dont go around holding little girls heads underwater and beating them and calling them sexual names and breaking their things and shooting at their friends with guns and screaming and yelling every day and being an alcoholic. HE is the one with the anger problem. what they are trying to pin on me is 1000000000000000000% grade A PROJECTION. there is no evidence. its projection, and their own sick fantasy. if i dont do it, they just make it up.

reality never bothered them too much. im not a person - im a role. im their garbage can. what i really do, or am, or think, is totally irrelevant, and if i refuse to play the part, they just make it up.  i moved thousands of miles away long ago, and have had no contact with them or any of their friends for 15 years.... most people dont know the real me.. so people just believe what they say. they make it up.

I'm both horrifed that they do this (I've seen this kind of thing too), and glad that you don't take their poison bait.

there is no way, really, to detach from caring that my daughter is being hurt.

I would hope not.  Nor would I ever suggest it.  This is a good connection to have.  I was only talking about detaching from your parents and their intentions and actions.  You need the anger about your daughters situation to energize, without getting caught up reacting to N foolishness.

thanks for being understanding longtire :} didnt mean to be.. whatever i was.

Human, like the rest of us non's?