exhusband and daughter

[desperatemom]

This is my first time and I'm a horrible speller! I recently got the courage to divorce my Nhusband. Everyone in the community (except those closest to us) think I was crazy. We have 2 child. Son 13yr, daughter 11yrold. I thought the divorce would help my daughter but she seems to have his personality and you never know at home who you are going to get. Am at a loss as to what to do. Thought I could love her enough to make up for how horrible her ndad was to her and I (very belittling and demeaning) but not to my son, who can do no wrong.(he is a very good child)

[femfree]

Hi. I have some advice from a professional psychiatric nurse that I like to pass along. And, through your local mental health association and your family doctor, getting a sound diagnosis and entering Parent Management Training will go a long way to teaching you the skills to manage your young "N"? daughter.

Here is some advice from a pro…
“I am a psychiatric nurse and have often worked with this type of client on our admission unit. They are considered to be one of the most difficult to work with. As the discussion mentions at the base of this is poor self-esteem and an inability to accept consequences. How do we work with this type of client? Focus on the behaviors that are acceptable and not acceptable. Set limits. Family members should agree on what they are and be consistent. Set up consequences and work as a group. It is strongly suggested that we do not ignore the behaviors for two reasons. Firstly, the person learns that there are not consequences for what he says or does. Secondly, this could lead to and "acting out" (act of verbal or physical aggression). These behaviors should be totally unacceptable and the family should make that clear. Set limits. Agree upon what is ok and not ok and all members should do the same thing. Example: Asking the person to leave, giving a firm "no" and ending the discussion. When the behaviors are neutral or even pleasant, point out that that time was positive. When they are not, point them out in a non-judgemental fashion and set the limit. The prognosis is poor for this type of personality disorder. Often these people are rejected and alone over time. Of course these are my thoughts and not everyone will agree with me.
Hope whatever I added gives some help."

Take Care
femfree

[trish]

Hi DesparateMom...

This is my first time, too, and I'm also in the same place you are.  I've been divorced from my exN-husband for two years and my youngest daughter is 10.  She is so much like her dad and it worries me.  The divorce made it worse with her, partly because of the inevitable anger and confusion a child feels when their parents get divorced and partly because she gets more alone time with her Ndad now than she ever did when we were married.  He plays major mind games with her.   Anyway, I know how much it hurts to watch your daughter act this way, and I know how tiring it is to try and guide her past it.

I'm agreeing with what Femfree said because it seems to be working with my youngest.  Nothing else I've tried works.  Separate the actions from the person...you know, her action is damaging but she's not damaged.  Don't argue or explain in great length.  Just plain No, Enough, Stop.  Putting a whole lot of emotion in it seems to make it worse with my daughter.

Mostly, I just wanted you to know that I completely understand.  I do believe that children are amazingly resiliant (heck, look how good I turned out..wink, wink)...especially when there is a stable role model who provides boundaries with unconditional love and acceptance.

Funny thing is, being raised by an Nmother I am lously at setting consistent boundaries.  Be gentle and forgiving with yourself.  The fact that you recognize the problem, that you are worried about her well-being and future are signs that you are doing a great job.

Warm wishes,
Trish

[rosencrantz]

Ii wonder if it's the other way round...our Ns are like our children and our children are just being...children!!!

Children need the consistent boundaries to fight against and they need to be aware that there are consistent consequences for the actions they take - and that's our responsibility.  If we dont' take that responsibility that's when we fail them. It's hard going and we have to steel ourselves to having a bit of hate directed at us - but that's our problem not theirs.

I have a plea not to label kids as Ns. I don't believe it's the same at all.  They are 'self'-centred because that's where we all come from. We can teach kids consideration for others (AND US!) - it's a learned skill and doesn't come automatically (so we have to respect ourselves first if we want our kids to respect us, too!!!)

I have a card on my wall of a mother telling off a small child.  Don't be so childish, she says. (Er, yes...?)

My son and I have that as a joke between us.  When I get really exasperated but realise that I may be asking too much I tell him not to be so, so, so...CHILDISH!  And he always responds 'But I AM a child'.  He enjoys the joke at my expense and it gets it out of my system!!!!!
R

[Discounted Girl]

When I had my first child I remember reading that infants view "themselves as the center of the universe." I had 2 children and believe that is an accurate statement. As infants develop into toddlers they discover the world does not revolve around them -- they are supposed to. It is my opinion that N's, be they 10 or 110 still believe they are the center of the universe and will do whatever it takes to keep that belief a reality in their sicko minds. Therefore, N's may be more Nfantile that we think. Maybe they need to have a pacifier stuck in their mouth so we don't have to listen to their cruel voices ? Maybe they should be voiceless instead of us.  

[Anonymous]

Hi.

I have the same problem with my oldest daughter.  I was married to an N and my best friend was an N.  I ended up spending all my time between the 2 and my kids didnt' get the attention I should have given them.  My youngest are doing fine now and both N's have been out of my life for a couple of years.  My oldest is still very angry with me for all the energy I spent trying to keep them happy and not giving her enough attention.
I got her back from my exN about a year ago.  It's been hard.  
I don't know what to do for her.  I've been trying to be there for her.  I spend more time and attention on her than my other 2.  I love her very much but she gets mad when I set down rules.  As long as things pretty
much go her way everything is fine.  
Last week she broke up with her boyfriend.  I didn't know about it until the
next day when her sister got it out of her.  I asked her why she didn't tell me and she said it was because I didn't care.  I found out that she'd been on the phone and computer until 1 in the morning so I grounded her from both.  She got mad and a guy (friend of her boyfriend) asked her if she
wanted to get away for awhile.  This was 3 in the morning I found out later.  I got up at 5 to get ready for work and found her gone.  I called the police and they found her with this 21 year old guy.  She's 16.  The
police brought her home.  I took her to work with me (I wasn't ready to let her out of my sight) and I went home to take my son to school.  On the way home I told her she had acted very irresponsible and that it would be awhile before she got her drivers license and that she wouldnt' be able to go into a job program she wanted to go to until she could prove to me she was responsible.  She got out of the car and said she needed to get something.  I went upstairs with her because I had to use the bathroom.  When I came out I heard a bottle of pills.  I ran out and grabbed her until her sister managed to get them out of her hands.  She had managed to take 2 of them.  I called a pastor friend over to come talk
to her and the next day I took her to her regular counselor.... who then had her put in a crisis center.  The next day she had a psychiatric evaluation and the psychiatrist said she was depressed and needed to go
to the hospital and be put on zoloft.  I took her out against doctors orders.
Why does she only seem depressed around counselers, doctors, etc?
I asked her why she gets all gloomy when they come into the room.  She told me it was only when I was in the room, too.  I love my daughter very much and she's usually a very good kid.  But there are times that I really
don't understand her.  I feel manipulated.  And once again she's gotten her own way.  I took her over today to talk to that job place.  I told them about the pill thing and he told her that it's lucky it didn't go any further because they wouldn't let her in.  As it is she needs letters from her counseler and doctor and I don't know if she will get in.  I really want her
home and not in another state.  She's all happy again for now... but if the doctor or counseler say something that will keep her out of the job thing I think she'll go into the depressed thing again.  I know I need to quit giving into her.  She's still grounded from the phone and computer.  
I really don't know what problems she has.  She's been seeing a therapist
since March.  She has a journal that she writes in and the stuff she writes can be really weird.  Sometimes it's like 3 different people talking to each other.... she doesnt want me to read it... but then why is it so easy to find?
The day the pill thing happened.. my sister called the night before.  She was drunk again and told me she was going to kill herself.  My daughter heard that.  The next morning she'd fallen asleep with a small reading lamp on her bed and I scolded her telling her it could have caught fire... so later that day while talking to her therapist she happens to mention that she started a fire in my kitchen 3 years ago.  We had the firemen in and they said something was wrong with the stove.  The landlord said nothing was wrong with the stove...  we figured it was the old dry wallpaper and kept the stove away from the wall...   so now the day I mention the lamp to her she starts telling the therapist she wants to light fires and that she lit that one 3 years ago.  I don't know if she did or didn't.  I just wish I knew how to help her.

[Jaded911]

Desperatemom and Guest,

I hope by some way this will make you feel like there is hope for your children to mend their wicked ways.  I was not married to a N so my children were not raised in an environment as crazy as that N crap can be.  I do not think my children were even exposed to my xhusband and I argueing.  No matter what they are  or are not exposed to, they just seem to do some things that are rebellious.

My middle daughter is lucky to be alive today.  I seriously thought I was going to kill her during age 16-181/2.  She was a brat.  She called me the C word, I slapped her across her face.  Next day 4 cops at my door for child abuse.  She stold my x's car, drove 4 other girls on her  cheerleading squad to FLORIDA, we are in Indiana.  On the way there some other girl was driving, rear ended a brand spanken new Cadilac Escalade, kept on their merry way when some nice guy gave them a ride blah blah blah.  Nice guy??? With 5 teenage girls who are built like you would not believe.  This nice guy my butt, he could have killed them.  I told her one time to lock herself in her room, she asked why, I said for your own safety, Im gonna kill ya.  

I could have at times.  I mean darn 7 times turned in for child abuse.  One was because I would not buy her a $650 dress for a semi-formal.  She said I am running away, I said go for it, but you won't come back here when I sick the hounds on your trail.  You will go to a girls school and you will then see what child abuse is. She said she hated me, I said girl, at this minute I promise you I have the same feelings but they are 20 times stronger then yours.  It took every thing I had within in me to love her during that time.  Do not get me wrong, my kids are always loved no matter what they do.  Nothing could make me ever stop loving my kids, but at that time, I had to fight myself to remember that.  She pushed me and the more she pushed, the more I pushed right back without wavering on my limits and rules set down for her.  They need and want limits set by parents but for some reason they buck against them.

She pushed every button I had.  She threatened to go live with her dad, I told her it would be a cold day in hell before she would back me in a corner with threats.  I also reminded her that if she continued to behave like this, she was out but not to her dads where she would have very little supervision.  This went on for a couple of years with her.  She would threaten to do this if I didnt do that, it was a constant battle.

I do not know what made me do it but she began to do the routine on me one day and I had just realised I had enough.  I told her to pack her crap up she was a goner.  I called her dad and said come and get her and I made both of them realise that it was not a revolving door.  She left, she was not coming back.  My x refused to back me up with discipline during the entire time.  I just thought to myself buddy have at it, best of luck.

It wasnt two weeks and she called to tell me how sorry she was and wanted to come home.  I told her she made her bed and she was going to have to lay in it.  Every thing you do has reprocussions and I knew what it was going to take was for her to realise this.  I refused to accept that from her.

That is what saved our relationship.  Until she learned how to respect me I would not allow her to upset the entire house.  I really thought that her and I would never be able to spend an hour together let alone become as close as we had been before her bossy days.  Well I was pleasantly surprised, our relationship is better that before.  She also told me the other day that she hopes when she gets married she has all boys.

My response to her is that I hoped she had one little girl so she could then realise how special it is as a mother to watch her little girl turn into such a wonderful woman.  Then I stated I wished she had triplets and they were all girls and the paybacks would begin.  I got up and hugged her and said but I wouldnt trade ya for the world, even back then I wouldnt have either, but I sure did think of giving you away to a pack of wolves.

It does get better with these girls.  For some reason it seems that this is happening more each day.  We are not alone on that fact.  I have heard it over and over again.  I do not know what the other childrens home lives were like, but I can honestly say that my kids had a great childhood, great parents who worked to raise the kids as a team despite our divorce.  So my daughter had no predetermining factors.  I just think that times have changed and so have the kids.

Chins up, before you know it you will like those kids again.  I didnt think it would ever come, but reflecting back, the years with her have flown by to fast.  Blink and they are grown.