I'm new to the board...have a question:

[Holly]

Hello,

I have been doing a lot of reading about Narcissism lately because of a bad breakup back in December, and a few messy relationships before that.

I am a 35 year old woman.  After doing all this reading, I have begun to see my own narcissistic tendancies.  I feel like they were stronger in my 20's, and in my 30's I've managed to let a lot of them go.  However, since I've done that, I've found myself in painful relationships with men who exhibit narcissistic traits.  My question is this: is it common for someone who is 'getting over' narcissistic traits to find themselves involved with narcissists and getting hurt?  I realize some of the pain comes from narcissistic injury, but some is just from downright nasty behavior.  Am I punishing myself for 'past crimes'?  How can I break this cycle?  Is this common?  Like an alcoholic who starts dating other alcoholics after becoming sober?

I really don't like this.  And sometimes I wish I was more like I was in my 20's when relationships didn't phase me too much.  But I have no desire to hurt anyone.  I want to find a 'healthy relationship' but I'm beginning wonder if that really exists...well, I know it exists but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.  And it has never happened for me.

Yes, my dad is a narcissist (haven't spoken to him in over 10 yrs), as well as a sex addict (has been arrested for 'public exposure', etc) and I know that is affecting me to this day...but I'm really getting fed up!  I've had therapy, and I know I need to start again, but the last relationship left me financially strapped and I'm just starting to get caught up.

I also think I've been doing too much reading about this, because it doesn't leave room in my mind for healthier thoughts, etc.  I'm at a loss.

Thank you for reading and any comments would be appreciated...

Holly

[Anonymous]

Hi Holly,
I'm not touching the relationship thing with a barge pole as I don't have experience with any N romances. I have one of the rare 'healthy relationships'.
My problem is sibling in nature. But I did want to respond to one thing you said.

I also think I've been doing too much reading about this, because it doesn't leave room in my mind for healthier thoughts, etc. I'm at a loss.

When you're trying to get over the effects of these people, sometimes the healthiest thoughts can be immersing yourself in what makes them tick. I had the same fear as you when I first discovered what NPD is. But its hard to just have 'healthy thoughts' when your mind is bent by the manipulations and abuse. First, I think you have to get your mind unbent, so to speak, to even have healthy thoughts. Make sense?

mudpuppy

[longtire]

Hi Holly,
What N tendencies do you think you have/had?  The reason I ask is that it is a common theme for people posting here to be afraid that they are really N's.  Most of the time, that turns out to be laughable when it gets spoken out and examined here.  I'm not saying that you do or don't have these tendencies, I'm just curious.  If you do and you recognize them, good for you!

As for the relstionships thing, it seems unfortunately common for people to repeat the relationships they had growing up with their parents with romantic partners.  I don't think you are punishing yourself.  This may just be an opportunity to learn more about yourself.

[Holly]

Yes, that makes sense.  Doing all the reading and research has helped keep me 'sane' and prevented my mind from careening off into 'it's-all-my-fault land', etc.

But sometimes I feel like...enough already!   It's been 3 months!  I guess 3 months isn't that long when dealing with this stuff.  And it's only been a month and half since I stopped working for him (EX hired me to work with him, broke up with me 2 weeks later and got involved with another girl working on the project who he always had a crush on...long story, ug).

I just want to have some fun.  I was unable to for so long while working for him.  And now that I'm free from seeing him everyday I just want to MOVE ON.  But it's difficult.  And that was one of the ways he 'devalued' me:  he taunted me contemptuously when I tried to express my feelings calmly after our breakup.  He actually said, "relationships end all the time, so it hurt you more than it hurt me!"  Well, yeah, he was more hurtful.  Anyway, it's a long story I won't go into now...I'm so sick of rehashing it in my mind I could go bonkers!

I just feel so...damaged.  Yuck.

Holly

[vunil as guest]

Hi, Holly!

Deep breath  Be patient with yourself.  You are berating yourself for not being "finished" with the work you feel you have to do or should do or whatever instead of congratulating yourself for everything you have accomplished!  This stuff takes time and space.  Getting over a breakup isn't easy.  And you can't know what you are learning and growing from now; it's all too fresh.

A lot of us here do this, feel badly about ourselves for what we aren't instead of recognizing what we are.  I think this is our N parents (or whoever) in our minds telling us negative stuff.

If you want, feel free to share more about what just went on with you.  Why did the relationsip leave you "financially strapped"???  That seems unusual.  

All of us here are struggling with the same stuff.  It was really hard for me to admit how messed up my family life had been, and how that affected my relationships.  I just think it's not easy to do all of that.  You are lucky you are doing it when you are so young!  

And don't worry about having exhibited N traits.  What else would you have done?  It's what you were taught.  I have my own cringe-worthy memories of ways I acted in my 20's too.  Sigh.  I guess that's what our twenties are for .

hand in there,
vunil

[vunil as guest]

Hi, Holly!

Deep breath  Be patient with yourself.  You are berating yourself for not being "finished" with the work you feel you have to do or should do or whatever instead of congratulating yourself for everything you have accomplished!  This stuff takes time and space.  Getting over a breakup isn't easy.  And you can't know what you are learning and growing from now; it's all too fresh.

A lot of us here do this, feel badly about ourselves for what we aren't instead of recognizing what we are.  I think this is our N parents (or whoever) in our minds telling us negative stuff.

If you want, feel free to share more about what just went on with you.  Why did the relationsip leave you "financially strapped"???  That seems unusual.  

All of us here are struggling with the same stuff.  It was really hard for me to admit how messed up my family life had been, and how that affected my relationships.  I just think it's not easy to do all of that.  You are lucky you are doing it when you are so young!  

And don't worry about having exhibited N traits.  What else would you have done?  It's what you were taught.  I have my own cringe-worthy memories of ways I acted in my 20's too.  Sigh.  I guess that's what our twenties are for .

hand in there,
vunil

[vunil as guest]

sorry double post!  With typos, too!

[Holly]

Good question.  The N qualities I feel like I had were:
sensitive to being slighted, and rage (I usually kept hidden quite well, and now I have a much more realistic reaction to it)
a need to feel unique
sought out drama and chaos to numb myself from reality
idealization/devalue cycle of friends/lovers/just about anything (but I would catch myself before being cruel to them)
lack of empathy (only sometimes, when stressed)
need for significant others to mirror me in a certain way, etc.
grandiosity

I really took a good look at myself when I turned 30 (after a narcissistic injury from a rejection from a guy who meant nothing to me), and with the help of a therapist, really started to see what I was doing, etc.  I may have just 'swung to much the other way' in that I managed expectations of others by ended up not having any expectations at all and 'living on crumbs', etc.

I think being with my last boyfriend (who I had known for yrs, we were platonic roommates before I had my 'epiphany' at 30) brought up a lot of these issues for me.  Like maybe he somehow represented that part of me I had 'rejected' (the N parts).  I started to feel more self-centered around him (well, kinda HAD to to survive).

Anyway, thanks for the comments.  I know that we all have tendancies and that's it's just a matter of degree...

Hi Holly,
What N tendencies do you think you have/had?  The reason I ask is that it is a common theme for people posting here to be afraid that they are really N's.  Most of the time, that turns out to be laughable when it gets spoken out and examined here.  I'm not saying that you do or don't have these tendencies, I'm just curious.  If you do and you recognize them, good for you!

As for the relstionships thing, it seems unfortunately common for people to repeat the relationships they had growing up with their parents with romantic partners.  I don't think you are punishing yourself.  This may just be an opportunity to learn more about yourself.

[Holly]

Hey don't feel bad, I just looked at all my typos too!

The financially strapped scenario is a little complicated.  It had to do with the nature of the job (television production, project basis) and how I took a paycut to get my foot in the door to a potentially lucrative career...then the abusive breakup led me to talk on my cell too much (to friends, etc) and charge up $600.  Then some emergency therapy sessions.  Then a kidney infection which cost me time off work as well as medical bills (I somewhat blame the stress, but don't want to get into 'everything is his fault' mode, however fun that may be! )

Then the fact that I WANTED to leave the job so bad, to get him out of my mind (and the other girl!) and didn't really enjoy the idea of working in this area (reality TV--OY! don't get me started!).

Then when the project finally ended, it took me 2 1/2 weeks to find another job (NOT in production, thankfully).  I realize that isn't much time and I was lucky to find a good opportunity so soon, but I am paying off credit card debt and don't use credit cards anymore so it made for some lean times.  I think I'll be able to afford therapy by June.

Anyway...I like this board and may torture you all with the entire story soon.  It's a good one.  

Thanks for the support.

Holly

If you want, feel free to share more about what just went on with you.  Why did the relationsip leave you "financially strapped"???  That seems unusual.  

[bunny]

Welcome Holly,

Three months isn't long to heal from a breakup, especially from a narcissistic man. His lack of concern for your feelings has to be very painful. In a non-N breakup, both people would feel sadness and concern. They may need to practice NC, but each person would know the other was grieving the relationship. In this case, he didn't seem to grieve the loss and basically told you flat-out he didn't care. That was ugly. A person reels from that kind of emotional attack. Personally I think he felt ashamed that he could not express the appropriate feelings, so he devalued your feelings. That's an explanation, not an excuse.

It takes time to give up the addiction to narcissists (they are quite addicting) and accept a relationship with a regular man. There is a process there, too.

How's the therapy going?

bunny

[Holly]

How's the therapy going?

Hi, thanks for the reminders...yes, he was very cruel and I was so confused by the time everything went down I did not protect myself from his emotional beatings.

The therapy isn't going.  I had a few sessions with a therapist I had only seen a few times before, and she didn't seem to understand why I was having such a hard time.  It was like she thought I was so wonderful she didnt' understand why I would be upset over such a jerk.  Well, yeah, that's the problem!  

She referred me to a psychiatrist for possible meds and I connected to him and he seemed to have a better grasp of what I was going through in just 15 minutes.  We decided against meds bc I took one dose and had a reaction that indicated I had too much seratonin.  He said the best antidepressant would be to get out of the job.  I want to go back to see him, but won't be able to swing it for another couple of months.

So I'm in an emotional holding pattern.  At least, that's what it feels like.  I really want to tackle this and make some real progress this time.  "Fed up" is the best way to describe my feelings.  And I still have awful dreams about the ex and the new girl--getting married, etc.  I just want to feel free of all this.  I know it takes time and I know there are no shortcuts.

Thank you!

Holly

[Brigid]

Hi Holly,
Welcome to this site.  Don't feel badly about  how long you are taking to deal with the break-up.  It has been 18 months for me (albeit from a 22 year marriage) and I'm still working through certain aspects of it.  Good news!! It does get better and you will be so glad that this man is out of your life.  I'm sorry that the therapy can't happen right now, nor can you take meds.  Both were a big help to me.  I've been off the meds for a year, but the therapy continues on a weekly basis.  

Bunny is right that these men take some time to get over.  Be kind to yourself and take time to heal and learn.  I had an N father and 2 N husbands.  I don't EVER want to make that mistake again.

Feel free to tell your story when you are comfortable.  We will be happy to listen.  

Brigid

[Stormchild]

Hi Holly

Glad you found us; hang in there, it sounds as though you've already accomplished a tremendous amount; and R&R has its place too.

Hopefully when you do get back to the psych doc, he can talk with you about other meds if that's appropriate then. They don't all affect serotonin, some affect other types of brain chemistry.

Narcissists are definitely a fatal attraction, as a lot of other folks here have said, and even worse, when we're raised by them we're drawn to them because that's what feels like home. Sigh...

Welcome, glad you're here!

[promqueencasualty]

...I have begun to see my own narcissistic tendancies.  I feel like they were stronger in my 20's, and in my 30's I've managed to let a lot of them go.  However, since I've done that, I've found myself in painful relationships with men who exhibit narcissistic traits...

Dear Holly,

Welcome to this site---I think that you are to be commended for the introspection and self-awareness that you possess. Many folks here can attest to the fact that the N's in their lives would rather have their eyes poked-out than have their behavior and attitude held up to scrutiny. You are way ahead of the game--you desire a loving, trusting give-and-take relationship with someone, as opposed to picking an emotional "host" who will just continue to feed N supply(I think that a parasitic analogy is appropriate when discussing N's!).

While I'm on the topic of analogies, you said, "Enough already!" "I want to feel good and start having fun again!" We've all been there---this stuff is painful to examine, but(and here's where the analogy comes in) think of the Ncism in your life being akin to a big boil on your keester. If you try to put some sort of salve on it, you may get temporary relief from the pain, but it's not going to heal completely---it will probably continue to grow in size(or the infection could spread), and every time you sit down you're gonna feel it(think of sitting down as being analagous to jumping into a new romance before working-through some of these bigger issues in your life--it will probably bring more pain onto you).

In order to stop the infection from spreading, you're probably going to have to lance the boil, so to speak(gross, I know)---it will be painful for a while, but after a spell, you'll notice that the healing has truly begun. Each day you'll feel a little better...but first, you have to "lance" it. Give yourself time(hey, it's only been three months! and you're not just contending with the aftermath of that creepy guy, but chances are some of your Ndad's stuff is lurking around there, too). As I have said on other threads here, I knew as a child that something was not right in my family, but it took me thirty-some years to understand what it was, be able to articulate it, and start the pursuit to restore some semblance of emotional equilibrium in my life.

You have come to the right place, and you have a voice here. Please keep sharing your story, because there are a lot of very wise and caring folks here who can help. Hang in there!  : )


PQC

[Lara]

Hi Holly,
I wanted to reply to you because people on this site have been,( and still are being,) absolutely my greatest help in getting over a romantic relationship.In my case I had a five-year relationship with a guy, which ended in Jan 2004, and I started posting here in January I think, of this year, because I still could not 'get over' it.

I am so familiar with that feeling you have of 'enough already,' where you are so sick of rehashing everything but can't stop. I agree with Bunny that it is much more difficult to come to terms with the end of an N relationship, and therefore it takes longer too. I've been processing all this stuff for over a year now, and I think it's difficult because there are two separate things to get your head round:                                     First, the shock of how the r/ship ended. We don't expect the person we felt so close to, to give us a kick in the teeth as a parting gift, by apparently not giving a damn when it's over.
Second, as we begin to get over the shock of the ending, we begin to realise that there's another increasingly plausible interpretation of the whole r/ship, and that perhaps what we thought was happening in it (somebody loving us as we loved them,) was not the reality. This is another enormous shock which I think takes a long time to work through.

I also feel that if you are drawn to reading books on the subject,you should.I have found that some of the books have been sad to read but very enlightening, because until reading them I had assumed that my ex was working from the same emotional principles as me. His behaviour doesn't make a lot of sense EXCEPT as part of a disorder,and he is still marching around in my head a lot of the time, which I feel is another sign that he was exerting some kind of sick hold over me.

Holly, I'm sorry that you are having such horrible dreams.Shortly after the break-up I was having similar dreams, and they hurt very much. I think that as you start to recover, your dreams will change.

So the bad news is that it may take you a while to feel better. The GOOD news is that you certainly will feel better, and that this site is a great place to be now that you are on the way there!

Sincerely,
Lara.