= unbeleivable =

[d's mom]

OH

MY

GOD

the funniest thing just happened to me that ever happened in my whole life. not funny-weird, FUNNY HA HA.

I recently wrote, that I was doing my usual humilating dog-tricks to get my daughter here for her summer visit, in this case having to email my father and 'ask' for what is mine, even though we are supposed to have a month, we usually get no more than a week, ten days if we are REALLY REALLY lucky. <doling out their crumbs>

so he wrote me back, and i hadnt opened it, beucase frankly its hugely depressing and it really just hurts, so i dont like to do it. i knew he was going to turn me down, he always does, and i wasnt looking forward to it.

its been a week and ive finally steeled myself and just opened his email.

AND what happened was sooooo funny that it literally blew me right out of my chair. the force of my surprise, took me halfway across the room.

usually my father has an impenetrable facade. nothing can crack it. he is cooooooooooooooooooool as a cucumber. nothing will get to him, nothing he lets you see anyway. EVER.

well...... lately ive started referring to him as 'bruce' instead of 'dad'. hes not acting like my dad. hes never acted like my dad. i dont really feel like he is my dad. it feels more natural, to refer to him as bruce. so thats what ive been doing recently. it wasnt purposely to 'bug' him or anyone.  it realy didnt involve much thought at all.  hes just not 'dad' to me. so what.

well.... in this most recent email... i addressed it to 'bruce'. just so you guys can see that i am totally reasonable even though it makes me want to puke - below is my email: (the reference to our 'agreement' was beucase when she first went there, we made an agreement together that she'd visit me for a whole month every summer. thats never happened once, of course. last year they gave some excuse about 'scheduling' so i told them last -september-, that we'd be expecting our full month this year. you can see what they thought of that.) i wrote:


Bruce:

It is time to plan Delphine's summer visit with me. We have much to do, and
since we expressed last year that this year we would be expecting a full
month, I am confident that this year you have had plenty of notice and
fairly allotted us our full month together, as outlined in our original
agreement.

I have been careful to check this with Delphine and she has verified
several times that she would like to be here for a much longer period.

There are several fairs, a number of public classes, and many things we
plan to do in addition to the usual movies, shopping, gardening, and other activities.

Please let me know which four weeks she will be here.

thank you very much,
Anna





well - this is what he wrote back, mr. ultra reasonable and in control as always:


Hi Anna,
Delphine has two months out of school. She will be going to Lazy J Ranch
Camp for four weeks, and  reasonably, whe will need time between school, camp, your place, and school again. Delphine will be at your home for two weeks this summer. I will let you know exactly the schedule as we get closer to it.

By the way,  
My name is Dad to you, Bruce to personal friends and Dr. Goldreyer to those who wish to annoy me.





BWAAAAAHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"those who wish to annoy me?" i dont know about the n's in your life. but for my father to say that - is equivalent to ... ... i dont know... i cant even think of anything. ive never seen him admit to any expression of emotion ever in my life. hes an iceberg.  i can almost hear the little three year old, truly insulted that this forty year old woman is taking back some of her power, by relating to him on my own terms.

i know ive read that n's biggest peeve is to be treated as plain, ordinary, unspecial, insignificant, or not worth your time. well.... i guess this just proved, that theory is COOOOOOORRECT.

ive never done any action in my life (except exist) that has gotten under my fathers skin....  for my father, that was a major, unprecedented crack in the facade. he SNAPPED. becuase he cant control what i CALL HIM. i LOVE it.


then again i just had my phone conversation with delphine which is always sad, awkward and heartbreaking. they will always find a way to punish me somehow. but, we tried to have fun. but it breaks my heart so bad what they do to her.  

those fleeting moments of happiness. over so fast. how dare i not be a beaten down slave.

[d's mom]

ps im sorry if that was confusing, i wrote most of it when i was really feeling happy, which is really rare, then finished it after i talked with delphine so i was back to feeling all of that again.

i reailize that might have seemed strange.

[October]

ps im sorry if that was confusing, i wrote most of it when i was really feeling happy, which is really rare, then finished it after i talked with delphine so i was back to feeling all of that again.

i reailize that might have seemed strange.

Can you not enforce this month stay?  If it is agreed with the courts, can they not have a say in this at all?  However, if that means you would miss out on the two weeks, then I would understand you not doing it.

It must be very tempting to get your daughter for those two weeks, and take her abroad and stay there.  Fantasy is a wonderful thing!!!!!!!  Or maybe ....

Sorry if I don't understanding your position properly.  And if I were you I would continue with the first name; he is an adult; you are an adult.  First names are fine.  Ignore the rest.  

If you go back to 'dad' you put him back into the parent position, of power.  I don't think that would be a good move.  Well done for making him reveal his true self!!!!!

[Portia]

Hey not confusing at all, I got it and yeah, it is funny in that dark way I understand. Funny in a shocking way. Funny in a “wow, look at the anger and shit underneath that façade!” kind of way.

But I am sorry that yet again you’re being deliberately frustrated and denied justice/fairness.  

What will you do now?

Obviously not call him ‘Dad’! or maybe you should? If you call him ‘Dad’ from now on, he’ll think he’s ‘won’ but then he’ll reconsider and know you’re just doing it to take the mickey out of his insecurity.  Yeah, call him Dad, that’s what he wants and it will show that actually, it doesn’t even matter to you. In fact, it might be worth doing a really over-the-top apology. “I’m so sorry, I didn’t realise that my calling you Dad was so important, I hope I haven’t upset you Dad.”

Maybe not. But I don’t know. Dealing with people like this, whatever we do will be interpreted in their own crazy way so we might as well do as we wish, if it helps us.

Also I guess you’re not a ‘personal friend’? Oh I could go on about that email. But what’s the use. Call him ‘Dad’ – he’ll know you don’t mean it and that you’re doing it to patch his weak spot. That will irk him. That you’re strong and he isn’t.

The important thing is what will/can you do about the 2 weeks vs. a month?

[vunil as guest]

Wow, talk about a dismissive tone!  I get similar e-mails from my mom-- I call it the "off with her head!" approach.  Royalty has spoken.

I love all of the declarative sentences (presumably handed down from the mountaintops):  It WILL be two weeks, etc.

I agree you should get the courts to enforce the one month.  Your asking is not going to make them do anything differently.  In the e-mail it is pretty clear what this man thinks of your desires and opinions.  He even pronounced  HIS idea (and by contrast, not yours!) "reasonable."  Thus spake him.

A higher force is going to have to work with you to get what you want.  I believe in spiritual higher forces, but for this I bet on legal higher forces. Get them to give you what you are owed.

As for the "don't call me Bruce" thing, it was sort of funny at the end there-- almost like he was pulling back in a way, a little teeny bit aware that he was sounding ridiculous.  Not that he can ever truly be aware of that.  But even that part of the letter had the "I am not declaring from the throne" tone to it.  Certainly isn't a conversation, is it?  You don't get to decide what to call him with your own mouth.  I guess he's in charge of that, too.

I am so sorry!  I don't know your situation well enough to truly provide advice (just guesses) but it does sound very stressful.

[vunil as guest]

oops, I meant "NOW declaring from the throne."

[gardener]

d's mom...
I don't come here often, but I felt I should mention that you may wish to edit your thread and remove the identifying names, you can't be too careful.
It's not such a good idea to add things which can be traced back to you or others on the internet.
I hope you don't mind me mentioning it....
I really do hope you find a resolution.

[Anonymous]

Hiya Anna:

By the way,
My name is Dad to you, B.... to personal friends and Dr. G...... to those who wish to annoy me.

What if you were to ask him a few questions such as:

"What is a dad?
Is it just a title, or a way to act/behave toward a child?
How do you feel when I don't call you dad?
How do you feel when I do call you dad?
Do dad's demand to be called dad, usually, or is it a natural, comfortable  thing that happens because it feels right and because things are right between child and dad?
Do you want to know why I don't feel comfortable/natural/right calling you dad?
Do you care?
Would a dad usually care/most dads care?
How do you feel about me?
Are you really my dad?"

Makes me sooo curious to see what his answers would be!!!!

But...........you are wanting something from him......a month visit with your child.......and he is demanding something from you....to be called dad.  I wonder if it might be possible to trade?

"Since I want to visit my child for a month, and since you want me to call  you Dad, do you think we could trade?  I love my child and I am her mom and the agreement was that I will visit with her for one month.   Are you my dad?  Do you love me?  Is that why you want me to call you dad?  How about if I visit with my child for one month, as agreed?  I could call you dad, if you acted like you loved me/understood love for a child and showed it by doing what was agreed.   How about being like a dad to me?"

This might just be me venting on your behalf.      

Only you can guess how he might react and whether it would be a risk worth taking, or better to try another approach?

((((((((((((((Anna))))))))))))

(You can always call him dad without meaning it!!)

GFN

PS:  Gardener is probably right.......isn't it dangerous to have his name here?  Isn't it a good idea to edit it out??

[Portia]

Just a quickie. About editing.

Only members signed in can edit posts. Guest posts (by anyone) cannot be edited (as far as I know).

Anna, if you’re bothered about your stuff on posts here, you can email Dr Grossman and ask him to delete certain posts (or the entire thread I guess). This has happened several times to my knowledge.

If you’re not bothered, good. Most abusive folk couldn’t even find a board like this and if they could, they wouldn’t be bothered to read it. They’d just want to post all about them!   take care all

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's unbelievable or even surprising. You provoked him by calling him Bruce and he reacted. You must have known he wouldn't like it. My strategy is usually NOT to let the other person know what I'm really thinking.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Maybe you should call him Dr. G and then he'd really know how you feel.  I mean if you call him Bruce, you're admitting to being his "friend."

My exNH always signed his cards and notes to me .... " Love from your  husband John Smith."  Even love letters.   Like maybe I wasn't sure which John was my husband? Weird.

You have my sympathy.  I hope that it won't be too long before your daughter is able to make her own decisions with regard to where she lives.
They usually can figure it out when they get a little older.

I have no children with exNH but three stepdaughters.  One hasn't spoken to him for nearly five years, another for nearly three.  The youngest is still in college (far away).  It will be interesting to see what happens when she graduates.

Have faith,

Gingerpeach

[mum]

Anna, your "father's"emails about time with your daughter sound eerily like my ex's. Are they all the same?  I know why you sound so compliant and reasonable in your letters.....you must.  I have to play the same game.

Didn't he say people who really want to annoy him call him Dr......?  Do that!!! No, seriously, he doesn't deserve "dad".... not while he "owns" your daughter and keeps her from you.

Bless you Anna, you are amazing....your situation is unthinkable, and you are inspiring.

[vunil as guest]

Makes me sooo curious to see what his answers would be!!!!

I am pretty sure what those would look like-- a very long very dismissive and "rational" e-mail "explaining" the answers to the questions in the most insulting tone possible.  With some self-aggrandizement thrown in there.  It is so tempting to ask rational questions of N's!  And those questions make so much sense.  And it would be soooo frustrating to hear his answers.

I am with the subversives on this one-- don't give him a clue what you are thinking and definitely don't ask him what he is thinking  We pretty much know anyway:  Me superior, everyone else not so much.  If he wants you to call him King Daddy, I would do it for now while you secretly plot...

A lot of stuff in his manner gives me the impression he feels he has all of the power.  Why does he feel this way?  I am sorry I don't know the whole story.  But does he really have all of the power over the situation?  His cockiness bugs me...  Is there some subversive way to take some of that power away?

[d's mom]

A lot of stuff in his manner gives me the impression he feels he has all of the power. Why does he feel this way? I am sorry I don't know the whole story. But does he  really have all of the power over the situation? His cockiness bugs me... Is there some subversive way to take some of that power away?

hi vunil and all :}  you can see im sure, why his manner is so difficult. i love that 'off with the head' thing! > its perfect.

ive been working hard all day, working at my business, one thing i know is i need to make more money to get anywhere.... all your responses have been thought provoking and helpful.... being here is like getting ointment on a chemical burn........

i have thought a lot about these responses and will answer more tomorrow to explain some of the reasons he thinks he is able to act as he does. he does always demand all power, not only over what you do but also how you think and how you feel. (as you can tell)

he is some kind of uber-N. before i knew about N i always comparred him to charles manson. he is hypnotic and mesmerising and demands control of not only actions but emotions and thoughts, and he is absolutely ruthlessly brutal in getting that control. utter submission is all that is acceptable. nothing is EVER good enough. he is also brilliant and very very cold. its not a good combination. i really appreciated all of your responses and like i said it was just like getting ointment on a very painful burn. theres a lot id like to share that will explain the details further, if you can take a little more venting. its not a very delightful story!@

thanks soo much for all your  responses. talk more tomorrow. (((((((all)))))))
d's mom

[Anonymous]

Hi all:

...theres a lot id like to share that will explain the details further, if you can take a little more venting. its not a very delightful story!

No worries Anna.  Vent away.  As it feels comfy to do so.

GFN