Rich kids fighting over stupid stuff

[Bliz]

That's what I think this will sound like to you guys.  First squabbling over summer camps and now this.  But you have all been so much help to me in my journey to regain my voice, power, centeredness, I have to throw it out there anyway.

The brother that I work with is about to liquidate most of his assets and make a foray in to a real estate venture that will probably pan out well for him.  He has actually asked my advice and I have encouraged him.  He will not sell his house or the office.  It was a bold move but he has has pretty good instincts.  

I felt great about  it until I found out today my father is financing a large part of the venture through a supposed "loan" with a written document against the parents estate. This is not the first time my father has throw money at a brother when a certain venture caught his eye.  

I on the other hand made several suggestions for joint ventures over the years, none of which Dad was willing to consider.  If he had made some of the real estate investments I had suggested years ago in Florida we would all be millionaires.  I made a personal investment the personal investment in Florida that has panned out well for me, at least on paper.  I didnt even tell the parents about it until afterward.  I had gone to Dad for advice only and he wouldnt even talk about it with me.  

It hurts on the one hand and angers me on the other. I was honest and told both Mom and Dad that it bothered me and wasnt consistent and seemed that the formula was "whoever came up with the best plan wins."  

I wouldnt even want their money, on so many levels, but it hurts to know that my ventures weren't considered, "good" enough or whatever to try for them.  I also felt that if the brother took the risk on his own it might be a great life lesson for him. Now his head will just swell more.  

Trust me I live pretty close to the vest.  I am the only sibling who really sturck out on their own.  I moved away at an early age because  I really had no choice. They wouldnt let me in the original family business because there was a "no women allowed" rule.  I moved to Florida and had every menial job in the world.  I could have used their help but I didnt get it.

In many ways, I am glad I have done it all on my own, but on the other hand maybe I should come up with some wild scheme to get money.  The thing is I probably couldnt live with myself, but hey if they are handing it out.  I am driving a 10 year old car.  Need many renovations at home including a new roof.  

I guess I just dont get the logic or is it just another the boys get it because they have kids or just because they are men?

The middle brother wil probably be ballistic. He already is the "angry" brother over stuff like this.  There goes working together for the trailer deal. All that work down the drain. AARRRRRHH!!  

Again it seems trivial compared to some of the things people are going through but I believe it is still about the same general issues if you all can only help me sort it out.

[Anonymous]

Bliz,
I honestly think you are some kind of a saint for being able to to function in the middle of such recriminations, injustice and unfairness.

It doesn't sound like a little problem to me, it sounds like something that would make the average person tear their hair out, or maybe tear your family's hair out.

Do you really want to be in the middle of your familiy's stuff all the time. It sounds like you are just there to make others look good while doing the hard and dirty work. Am I right?

I wish you could somehow strike out on your own professionally and stop the manipulation and use of your good nature and talents. Not possible?

I'm glad you have a voice here at least, even if they won't listen.

mudpuppy

[Bliz]

You are sweet, Mudpup,
Thanks for the encouragment.  I guess that is another reason I moved away so long ago.  I came back for a variety of reasons but also because my parents were getting older.  

Of course, my Mom said today that she knew I would be upset and couldn't I just be magnanimous?  Boy, how many of you have heard something like that before?  In effect, choke down your feelings and put on the happy face.  That kind of behavior nearly killed me several times.

Could I strike out on my own professionally.  Of course. I guess I still think there are advantages to staying . Actulaly the diving of the work has gotten much better and we ar finally doing it ourselves. One good thing that could come out of this is he may not be here as much which could be like striking out on my own.  I guess in the one sense I hope I can stick with it until retirement which is closer but not that close.

I so appreciate having this place to vent.  I can not tell everyone how long I have suffered in silence with this behavior.  LIke i said it nearly killed me. Just to have others verify that my gripes are legitimate is huge.

[Anonymous]

Bliz,

LIke i said it nearly killed me.

It seems to have nearly killed quite a few of us here.
And the sick thing is they think that's funny, or we should be 'magnanimous' about being driven to the point of death by their antics.

Whats really sobering to think about, is how many people aren't posting here that we'll never know about who weren't nearly killed by their Ns; they were killed. Not directly maybe, but they're still dead.

mud

[Bliz]

That is so well said and truly magnanimous.  I have been debating what I do at this point.  Write my parents a letter and tell them how this feels.  Say hey, cut everybody a check.  That would be the fair thing to do.  

I can feel it is hitting all those "hot" buttons.  All the breaks the guys got from jobs or  businesses handed to them, to this type of thing.  It makes me feel bad about myself, like there is something wrong with me.  I know there isnt, but obviously my parents think the boys are more worthy or lets say worth more if you put a dollar amount on it.  HOw sad and sick.  

The strange part to this story is there is my other brother.  It will be interesting to see how he takes it.  He has gotten some compensation over the years but it was mostly through a renovation run through the company that didnt cost him anything.  It was probalby 40-50,000 dollars.  

My mother's response to this is well they have helped us all. Last summer out of the blue my parents offered to pay to have my hallway redone.  I said sure.  The total cost was like 2600.  So let's see, brohter one is worth ---,---.  Brother 2 gets ---,---.  Brother three gets the renovaiton worth 50,000 and I get my hallway done.  

How do you not feel bad about yourself?  How do you process these feelings?

[longtire]

How do you not feel bad about yourself?  How do you process these feelings?

Pity them for not being capable of seeing what a wonderful person you are and not taking the opportunity to enjoy you in their lives while they have the chance.     (((((((((Bliz))))))))

[daylily]

I don't know how families stay involved in business ventures.  In mine, we would all have killed each other long ago.

I can speak to one aspect of your story.  My mother (who is an out-of-the-ball-park Narcissist, but that's for another day), grew up as the child of a relentlessly "heliocentric" mother.  Everything revolved around the sons.  My mother was the only one who gave a damn about my grandmother, but none of it ever registered.  Everything was for and about "the boys."  The boys who took her money, insulted her, and ultimately abandoned her--but always sent gigantic flower arrangements to the nursing home as visible evidence of their..what?  Concern?  Guilt?  Social hypocrisy?

My mother is much the same.  My brother, who can be selfish and downright cruel, walks on water.  There is no money to speak of, but my brother received privileges in his childhood that the rest of us (three girls) could not even dream about.  So I do know something about where the resentment and the longing for validation (in spite of your best instincts and your resolves) come from.

Common sense tells me, "Hang in there and keep them at arm's length."  I don't know how possible that is given how interconnected your lives are.  Every emotion you're having is completely understandable.  I'd be furious and hurt, and probably tell somebody off.  So I admire your restraint.

And always remember, they are not your measure.  Family is a very bad mirror; do not trust the image of you that they reflect.

Not much help, but I just wanted you to know that I sympathize.

[Bliz]

Thanks again for the kind thoughts and encouragment. My parents probably do think I am a wonderful person.  That is why I just can't process this type of inequity.  I am a little old for them to hope some rich guy marries me and takes care of me, kind of thing.  I wouldnt want that anyway.  

I try to put myself in their shoes.  Imagine it is my nieces etc and I had to dole out the, (whatever..love, cash, etc.), I would be bending over backwards to try to be fair.  It would just kill me to think that one of them thought I loved the other more.  I mean how to the parents justify it in their head.  I would love to know.

[Anonymous]

Bliz,

I'm going to be straight here. Your parents are sadistic to dangle wealth and privileges to your brother(s) while throwing you a few crumbs. It's very, very cruel. My sister is married to a "man" whose family is much like yours. Someone comes up with a risky business proposition and they get the father to finance it, to the financial loss of everyone else. The family is constantly squabbling over money, who is getting a loan, etc. In these families, money = parental love. It's a very very cruel way to parent a family.

Anyway I think an option (perhaps strange to you) is to detach from the money, accept that they will give your brothers the money, and know as little as possible about who is getting money from dad. The "who is getting what" stuff is very enmeshing and keeps you trapped in their dysfunction. Another option is to first tell them how unfair and hurtful it is, and see if they can be 'magnanimous.' If they flunk that test, then emotionally detach from their fortune and have a relationship with them based on non-monetary things. I know that sounds like more punishment but it's liberation.

bunny

[Bliz]

To Bunny and Day Lilly
Thank you for your thoughts and validation. It helps to know there are other families out there where this goes on.  I did tell both of them, (the parents), that it bothered me.  Told both of them that everybody could use the money.  I am thinkng about what, if anything, I may say further.  

It does seem to be that love=money.  And I wonder what great sin I committed to be so unloved?  I have always been the one to struggle, even though I was very good in school and resourceful also.  WHen you think about it I have done very well despite them.  

In past years I have detached from the money.  I think that is why it is so very difficult now to have it all come up again.  I mean this reaches deep to things going back to my high school years.  I am so pissed off that all that stuff has come back for me again.

I just may ask for a check against the estate also.  Will be very interesting to hear what the other brother who is kind of left out of these things feels and has to say.  

I guess for now I will try to write my thoughts down in a letter.  Hopefully that exercise will help me process my feelings and decide what if anything to do next.  It is such a double bind.  So many people think I am rich just because my parents appear that way.  Nothing could be further form the truth.  I work hard at two jobs to make a living.  So I kind of get it on both ends sometimes.

In the midst of all this, Dad says to me out of the blue, "I always thought you would adopt a child."  I dont know where this came from.  I said I thought about it or having a child on my own but didnt think it was fair to the child.  I also told him there were other reasons.  THose other reasons were I was afraid I couldnt adequatley support the child.  I couldnt see at the time how I could work, afford day care etc.  Guess that could have been one of my master plans to get money.  

I think you guys know the victim mentality is not the way I will go.  I just need to process this and get it out.  This board helps so much.  Also I have a therapy appointment next week.

Please keep you thoughts and advice coming.  It is so helpful.

[bunny]

It does seem to be that love=money.  And I wonder what great sin I committed to be so unloved?  I have always been the one to struggle, even though I was very good in school and resourceful also.  WHen you think about it I have done very well despite them.

Your sin was being a female in a strictly male-centered family. You are wise to do well without them.
 

I just may ask for a check against the estate also.  Will be very interesting to hear what the other brother who is kind of left out of these things feels and has to say.

My unsolicited advice is to avoid hearing anything your brother has to say. It only keeps you enmeshed in the dysfunction.
 

In the midst of all this, Dad says to me out of the blue, "I always thought you would adopt a child."  I dont know where this came from.  I said I thought about it or having a child on my own but didnt think it was fair to the child.  I also told him there were other reasons.  THose other reasons were I was afraid I couldnt adequatley support the child.  I couldnt see at the time how I could work, afford day care etc.  Guess that could have been one of my master plans to get money.

YOUR FATHER HAS NO BUSINESS IN THIS. Do not explain, justify or tell him why you have/don't have children. He is intruding and putting MONEY into this deeply private issue. I hope you'll bring it up with your therapist. Geez...your father is quite a piece of work.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Bliz,

As bunny said, I'm going to be straight as well.
I hear me a few years back, when I hear you.
To an outsider looking in it appears you are really being screwed and taken advantage of. I know you recognize that to a certain extent, but when you're still on the inside it is difficult to see just how much you're being given the shaft, and I don't mean primarily the money.
Until I extricated myself from my brother's system I could not see just how tangled up and used I had been.
Also from the outside looking in, it often sounds as though you are giving way more defense to your parents behavior than they deserve. While I was in the 'system' I could recognize how my brother was treating others but I would still defend his behavior to outsiders.
I wonder how differently you would view your family after a few months of  you being on the outside looking in?
I know you love your parents, as you probably should, but you need to love yourself enough to prevent the damage it seems they are still doing to you.

How do you not feel bad about yourself?

You are a good and decent person. For them to perennialy reward the creepy N men in your family while devaluing you, means there is something wrong with them not you.

mudpup

PS. What are the odds of your parents cutting you a check for your share of the estate? That sounds like the source of their control over your family. Cut check=no control over bliz.

[Bliz]

Everyone please continue to be honest. You do not have to worry about being to "tough love" with me.  I appreciate the straight forward approach.

When you say get outside the system I guess I am curious as to what you mean?  I have worked outside the system of the family all my life and that gave me no peace.  In many ways, having this job where I have more autonomy and freedom due to the nature of the job has helped both my self esteem and feelings of empowerment.  This is only my take on it but I believe I worked out the refuse from the family dynamics probably at every job I ever had.  I feel like here at least I am dealing with the root cause of these things.

I disconnected from the family many times when I was younger and lived far, far, away.  In my mind I had more problems there and then just felt disconnected from the family to boot.  When I did see them it was even worse, because I had no skills in dealing with it.

If I disconnect from the family I also disconnect from the nieces and nephews I love dearly so I dont think that will help me.

I am not trying to defend my position or attack anyone that has said to disconnect or otherwise get away from the situation.  I hope it does not appear that way.  I guess I dont know exactly what you mean..switch jobs, leave town?  I guess I think it is simplistic to think that leaving this job or leaving town will solve the problem. I dont think it will.  Or maybe I believe that fighting the issues out with the people that are causing the problems is healthier than fighting these same battles with other people.  Dont know.

I defintely want to  disconnect from the drama etc., and not let my self esteem suffer becuase of their behavior.  Posting, venting and brainstorming here has really helped that.  Please feel free to give me your impressions.

[Anonymous]

Hi Bliz,
By getting outside the system I'm not necessarily suggesting cutting them off. I'm suggesting maybe trying to disconnect emotionally.

Its possible to go to a Tibetan monastery in the Himalyas, not contact your family at all, and still be enmeshed emotionally with them.

Have you ever really been substantially emotionally independent of them?

Why was it worse or harder when you were away from them?

Just how N are these people? They sound uniformly unpleasant, but perhaps they are more tolerable than many other Ns.

I never thought you were attacking anyone. Just the give and take of learning about each other.

mudpup

[Bliz]

Thanks, Mudpup,
When I left this area after college and lived away from here for about ten years, I believe I was emotionally disconnected from them.  They could not harm me there. However, in some ways I think their behavior got worse. My much younger brohters were probably thrilled to have me gone as I was a source of influence at one time,  while still in the house.  At least to some extent.

The gradual taking over by the eldest brother and eventually the others may have happened anyway if I left town or not.  Since I was away from them it gave them more fodder to discount any power I had when I was home.  It was easier to dismiss me I think.

This is a hoot. They actulaly had  a family meeting when I decided to move back to this area, 20 years ago. I am thinking..what was that about? They could not control me at that point.  

In some ways I have made great strides haveing come back and faced them.   I was able to gain my own credibilty and measure of success here from other sources, which helped my self esteem greatly.  Obviosuly things still come up which impact me.  SUppose that is why I am here.  

My mother and I have vastly improved our relationship since I have been back in this area.  That alone was worth coming back for.  I suppose my father's and my relationship haev also improved.  Still you see it does effect me.

They may not be as bad as others but maybe just horribly archaic in their attitudes.  That is the hardest part of all for me. Here I am a independent woman who has made it on their own without becoming callous.  A loving person, an attractive person and yet so often discounted for being female, I suppose.