Rich kids fighting over stupid stuff

[vunil as guest]

How do you not feel bad about yourself?

Hi, Bliz--

I really would like to second everyone here, and especially Bunny's first post.  I know it seems impossible now, but is there any way to not know who is getting what?  And not to count on any money from them?  I think what is bothering you is not the inequity, which you know already, but the constant reminders of it.  

Also, I have been reading about narcissistic families a lot, and one favorite unconscious game they have is to watch the kids compete with each other.  They encourage competition among the siblings.  So no wonder you are looking so closely at what your siblings get!  It is part of the whole pathology.


This may sound radical and even stupid, but what about making a mental decision not to take money from them?  You can inherit from them when they are gone, but as long as they are here-- could you just let all of the money floating around just not concern you?

I have parents similar to your parents, and the only way to really continue to deal with them, for me, was to just think of whatever money came their way as their money, nothing to do with me.  It bugs me that they don't set up any trust funds for the grandkids or do anything like that to show generosity, but they don't. It bugs me that they can be so cheap with their loved ones, and then turn around and be extravagently luxurious in their spending for themselves.  It bugs me that my father never acknowledged the piles of money he made from a business venture I suggested.  In fact, he doesn't even remember that I helped him with it!  Convenient N memory.

But I just think of it as a gift I gave him.  And that's that.  I do better if I just don't let myself even know what they are up to, financially.  If I don't know and don't expect any different, then that helps.  As my sister says about them "all rivers flow to them."  We just know it about them and never consider them in our financial planning.

This may be very difficult to do.  And I could be wrong that it's the answer.  But it is what my instinct is saying, so I hope it helps!

Could you give up the money in return for freedom?

[Bliz]

Yea, I am still processing this.  I havent asked them for money in a long,long time.  They offered some money to do the hallway.  My father felt the need to tell me as I assume he is telling everyone.  SO I guess I am saying that I feel I have disconnected from the money.  But it seems ridiculous that I should continue to struggle year after year while they are just handing it out to some of the brohters.

I hear what you are saying and will seriously think about it. Tonight I think I have been too much of a sucker by not having my hand out more

I just had a long discussion with a friend of mine and we both agreed we could never do this to sibling, kids, nieces that we love.  That is the hardest part of all to accept.

[vunil as guest]

I just had a long discussion with a friend of mine and we both agreed we could never do this to sibling, kids, nieces that we love. That is the hardest part of all to accept.

I know-- I'm so sorry you are having to deal with it.  It is not very great behavior on their part.

[Anonymous]

Hi Bliz,

I just had a long discussion with a friend of mine and we both agreed we could never do this to sibling, kids, nieces that we love.

Its terrible that they don't value you, their good and kind child the way they do your chump brothers.
However the silver lining is you are good and kind. You're not one of the Ns of the world. I know its not too much consolation when you're gettin' it in the neck, but at least you're worthy of respect and love, even if you don't get it from the ones you should.

(((((Bliz)))))

mudpup

[Stormchild]

Hey Bliz

I've been quiet on this because I went through something very similar.

My folks decided to disinherit me because my poor only sibling was such a basketcase and I could take care of myself. They expected me to execute a will disinheriting myself... anyway, their lawyer talked some sense into them, but then my father passed away first. So before my mother died, she made sure my sib destroyed the most recent copy of the will and did a few other legally questionable things.

I forced the estate into judicial probate and then relinquished my interest therein. My sib had intended to strip the assets and I would have gone broke keeping the estate solvent since I was the only one with any income or savings.

My sib's lawyer figured out real quick who the jerk was, and forced my sib to meet the terms of the will that was preserved, which stipulated reimbursement of all costs associated with preservation/maintenance of the estate... heh heh heh, that meant I got every penny of court costs back, plus funeral costs (you know who paid for the funeral etc.). Plus, as it turned out, a small life insurance policy payment which had been overlooked by my parents somehow and of which I was sole beneficiary. My sib got the entire residue of the estate and was still whining because I got my expenses and this beneficiary payment... apparently the lawyers started making noises about prosecutable offenses related to the disappearing of the current will, and my sib shut up and paid.

Here is the fascinating thing. I got the checks all within the space of about a week, and in each case, as soon as I opened the envelope, I was overcome by nausea. Literally overcome. I had to drive to the bank with the checks in the trunk of my car, I couldn't even have them in the same space with me, I could barely even touch them. It felt like I was profiting from the death of someone who had hated me, it felt like blood money, it felt like a price on my dead mother's head. And it literally sickened me.

My sib's lawyer knows how to find me. And knows that if my sib ever needs a bone marrow transplant or a sliver of liver the lawyer can call me, but forget it if it's a kidney. I'm willing to consider donating anything that I can grow back, but that's the limit of it. And that's the only reason I ever intend to hear from my sib again.

[Stormchild]

My mother (who is an out-of-the-ball-park Narcissist, but that's for another day), grew up as the child of a relentlessly "heliocentric" mother.  Everything revolved around the sons.

Daylily, this is magnificent phrasing. Absolutely magnificent. It is almost an anodyne, it's so gorgeous.

hats off to you.

[Anonymous]

Hi Stormy,

I don't know if this was supposed to be funny or not,

My sib's lawyer knows how to find me. And knows that if my sib ever needs a bone marrow transplant or a sliver of liver the lawyer can call me, but forget it if it's a kidney. I'm willing to consider donating anything that I can grow back, but that's the limit of it.

but it cracked me up. One of my sibs would be lucky to get a sliver of liver from me, unless it was a side order with onions.  

mudpup

[Stormchild]

half and half, mud. Dark humor. (what am I, chopped liver?)

fortunately, my sib wasn't quite as bad as Hannibal Lecter.

[Anonymous]

Sorry you had such a family Stormy.

There's plenty of good sibs here to take up the slack.

My wife and daughter are out tonight, so I got myself a pizza (the cats away) and ate too much.
Oh lordy what kind of shape would I be in if I wasn't married to someone who looks out for me? Spherical probably.  

Hope everyone has a good evening and weekend.

mudpup

[Bliz]

I am up in the middle of the night thinking about this..never a good thing in my book.  Stormchild, thank you for your story.  I am sorry also that you had to go through all this.  It happens way too many times in families.  

Very interesting about the checks.  It is not quite the same feeling but I have never been good about asking anyone for money.  I am on a community board of directors, where that is one of the board members primary goals..to ask other people for money.  I fail miserably at it.  I thought last night maybe I need to examine my own attitude towards money.  Maybe that the only way I am allowed to have it in my book is to work my tail off, be creative etc.  IN other words some feeing, that I dont deserve it , if it just to come to be.  I dont know.  THis is not the same thing and Stormchild's story but it is 2:40 am and babbling incessantly is about all I can do at this point.

I started a letter to the folks yesterday and added to it now.  It has some of the themes I have been playing out here.  I am tempted to talk to both of them tomorrow.  Dad wants to see me to talk about the river trailer thing.  Part of me thinks that is his way of "making nice."  Like. "see your goals are still importatnt to me."  Or that somehow he equates this to handing my brother a huge check.  I think what is keeping me up tonight is thinking I have to go over there tomorrow and act normal which I dont feel right now.  AND it is back to the horribly dysfunctional, "keep your mouth shut," "keep the peace", restraints I grew up with.

Anyway I digressed a little, but I am thinking of saying to both of them I wish they hadnt done this.  It is bad for the family, causes discension among the siblings.   He should know this as he did it many years ago for another brother and it caused a schism that still is not totally healed.  

Maybe then going into my love=money scenario,how it makes me feel, etc. They will try to interject but I may even ask them to let me get it all out before they comment.  Sunds a little dictatorial but I am doing it for myself and dont want to be dissuaded.  

What do you think?

I will have to pick my words carefully and I am sure they will want to counter everything immediatley but maybe part of my regaining my voice is getting this out.  It's a pretty short letter at this point but e>c

[Anonymous]

What I think:

Unfortunately a letter will not change people's long-held, unquestioned beliefs. My strategy would be to write a short letter about feeling hurt, excluded, and not given enough credit for my accomplishments when I try so hard to gain their approval. I would NOT mention that money = love in this family! Don't go there! That equation is for you to keep in your mind and talk about in therapy. They can't hear it! Okay?

bunny

[Bliz]

Well, I didnt get Bunny's advice until later and I did actually talk to the folks.  I had the letter with me but didnt read it.

Basically the following was said:

*********************
I love both of you and no amount of money would ever make up for the loss of you being gone when you have passed away.

That being said.  I wish you hadn't given the money to ____ for a variety of reasons.  Like ____, (older brother) said, maybe you should have talked to the rest of us first.  

Let's face it on some level, love=money and I would have to say I feel it on that level. I don't know how you put a price on a sibling. I tried to put myself in your shoes and imagine if I could do it with the nieces and the nephews and I don't think I could give a chunk of money to one and not the others, because it would hurt their feelings.

I think it is bad for the sibling dynamics.  Here we are attempting to embark on a venture together, the river trailer that has been fraught with childhood dynamics already, and once again this is thrown in the mix.   I would think you would have seen when you did it for _____, (older brother ),  that this wasn't a good idea.

 I don't think it is a good idea for ____. What have we all struggled with ____?  His immaturity, the  way he treats people, his sense of entitlement. This just further enables him to think his behavior is OK.  I could see a real change in ____as he struggled to make this huge decision.  A change towards more humility. It would have been better to let him do it on his own.

If love equals money I have to wonder what great sin I have committed that one brother is financially supported for life, another handed a business and now 200,000 yet I am never given this opportunity?  I could seriously use money for a lot of reasons. I struggle weekly to get my fair share of work because of _____'s archaic idea of women.  And I struggle on the family level continually for equal treatment.  This hurts.  

I also asked repeatedly for them to explain how they could single out one sibling and not be concerned about the effect on the others?  I said it seems like whoever has the best plan wins and realistically you should cut a check for everybody.

******************************

They listened mostly without getting mad but eventually said they could do whatever they wanted with their money and that everybody would be taken care of in the end.  I pushed a little farther for trying to figure out what classification they had me in where they either thought I didnt need the money or didnt deserve it for whatever reason.  

Evenutlly Dad was geting mad and close to storming out saying heatedly, "Well, just what did I want?  I was going to have to tell him what I wanted?"  I had already said I thought he should do the same for everybdoy and I could use a loan too but I dropped it at that point and we eventually returned to our lunch afer a few tense minutes.  

I doubt I would pursue money from them but did feel good that I got it out.  I did it for me.  I feel better so maybe it was the thing to do.

Input very much welcomed.

[Stormchild]

Bliz, I'm proud of you. Even though they didn't come around, you called them on the game. THEY KNOW YOU KNOW, As long as that was for you, and you don't look for anything significant from them, it may do a lot of good. For you. Inside.

Yeah... I've had plenty of bonuses from jobs and even gifts from relatives ($) and never felt at all ill at ease. The nausea I felt in connection with money from my mother's estate was directly linked to the fact that I was getting the money because (a) my mother, who hated me, had died before I did and (b) my sibling, who also hated me, was foiled in efforts to harm me and constrained, ultimately, by his own lawyers.

So it was a legacy from hate, received in spite of hate, and it just felt AWFUL to profit from a death in that way. Especially given who it was who died, and what the relationship between a mother and her firstborn is supposed to be. Geeeahhh, I feel queasy again now, just thinking about it.

But you know what? I deposited the checks, and kept the money, except for the part I donated to charity as almsgiving. I was able to see that it was simply replacing what I had spent, plus a very modest inheritance that I would have felt quite pleased about if there hadn't been any hate involved.

[Bliz]

Thanks for the encouragemnt, Stormchild.  I still do feel good about it. It is like a great weight has lifted from my chest.  I hope they do "know, that I know."  NO more "keeping the peace" and "seen and not heard" from me.  It hurts to stand up to your parents and say these kind of things, but it also hurts to keep it inside.  

I would have done that in the past.  I would have ruminated and stewed about it for weeks but put on the "happy face' in front of the family.  IT would have killed me inside, once again.  

Thanks to the board and the ability to see what voicelessness has cost me, I am starting to feel freer at different moments.  Thank you to everyone who takes the time to help me.

Stormchild, I do feel for your position.  It is a little like my mother's own mother.  It wasn't recived in hate but more the love never recieved from her mother.  She never had a good relationship with her mother who most probably is a classic nar.  

Mom's Mom didnt have much but she left Mom nothing and Mom was the one stuck dealing with her for years.  We got pictures and furniture and some minor jewelry but she left nothing in the will to Mom, her only surviving child.  She left what small amount of money there was to her 19 grandchildren and great grandchildren.  It wasnt much a piece but was a blessing of sorts.  

Not being mentioned at all in the will, hurt my mother, I know.  I considered bringing  this up today as an example of unfairness that was hard to justify, but decided against it.

[bunny]

Bliz,

Wow. That took a lot of guts. Too bad your Dad is a sexist and doesn't see that you are the successful son he wanted. He is such a loser, I'm sorry to say. I wonder if you will actually change things around there. It might happen. Well done!!!  

bunny