Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Great List of Narcissistic behavior
Acappella:
Thanks Jaded,
I like the list. How to detect specific behaviors that indicate those characteristics is something I am really working on, at least some key ones.
Healthy relationships or unhealthy, titles are just guidelines anyway. Ultimately, there are as many different manifestations of a given "disorder" as there are individuals. Your 1-10 scale is an indication of that. It is sooo customizable.
There is an article I posted here that elaborates on apologies, levels of effectiveness of types of apologies (effective meaning truly connected, heart felt apologies that are felt also by the person being apologized to). It is posted under "Steath Radar, Is that Nism I just experienced?"
When I get some time I'll come back here and post specific hints about these characteristics, hints that I missed or ignored when I met people with what turned out to be a damaging level of one of those qualitites. Also maybe something about what I am learning is a good alternative. The later may sound weird but I am learning that the fact that I didn't recognize those characteristics sooner is a symptom of my needing to learn what a healthier relationship looks like and FEEELS like. Like you were getting at...if X trait is no good then what is the good alternative to look for? What is a reasonable expectation, etc.
ECHO
Acappella:
I'd really like to hear about signs that anyone else here now realizes they missed....signs that indicated a one or many of the tendencies on the list.
And alternatives or whatever, such as what was an example of a flag that indicated someone didn't have that strong tendency.
For example, I have begun to feel that anytime (most of the time) a sentence is prefaced with "in my opinion" it means somebody is worried about being too outspoken. I mean isn't it obvious it is someone's opinion? Unless there is some underlying fear or assumption of grandiosity, why say it? I am paying attention to when I have the urge to say or write, "in my opinion" and trying to just say what I say. I feel better when I do so and I feel I am learning about myself when I notice under what situations I raise the "in my opinion" flag. It isn't exactly an example from the list (well I didn't read the whole thing yet, but will) but I feel it is relevant....relevant to insecurity and fear and is a flag that tells me about my own attitude as well as perhaps about what is going on for someone else too possibly.
Echo
Jaded911:
Amen Echo,
In my opinion either signals 1.) the person thinks they are talking to someone who takes offense easily 2.) they do not feel their opinion is worth much so they state it right up front.
I look at that list now and he demonstrated every one of them. A few he was pretty weak at showing, but most he did with out a drop of sweat on his brow.
I also looked back at our emails and thought about our fights. I described a N to a T to him when I told him how he acted. I just did not know it had a name to it, well I knew it had some name to in, but I didnt have a clue. Now I find myself thinking how different it is to read something and to live it. Living it you get a whole better understanding, how many of us wish we couldnt say that? My hand it up on that one.
clara:
Jaded, I like your point about remorse. The term certainly does imply that there is sorrow, or regret, and that the person experiencing it will make a sincere effort to make amends. As you point out, this is clearly not the case with an N. The only attempts they make at righting a wrong are at the expense of others and the gain of their own flailing ego.
What if my definition replaced the word remorse with the word shame? It is common to read about Ns suffering an inner shame and self-loathing. From this shame comes their offensive behaviors -- like putting others down and bragging about themselves.
How about this:
We all make mistakes with others. For a healthy individual we feel guilt, shame and (depending on how much the mistake hurt another) remorse. From those feelings we make amends and apologies that are sincere.
A psychopath just doesn't get it at all when he or she makes mistakes to hurt others. In other words, not much in the psychopath to keep them up at night worrying if they "hurt someone's feelings."
Ah, but the Ns are (once again) in a class by themselves. They feel the shame (not remorse) of their social blunders because deep down it reinforces their inner fear that they are inferior and worthy of rejection. How do they deal with this shame and fear of rejection? They set out to prove to others and themselves that in fact they did nothing wrong. They twist the story around. They counter-blame. Their best defence is a good offence. Like my N husband bragged in marital therapy once, "Yah, I fight to win. You bet I do." The problem is that in attempting to repair their feelings of failure they just dig themselves deaper because their attempts at repair are so offensive that people really do start loathing and rejecting them -- just as they fear.
Someone here asked me how I stood being married to a N for 21 years (good question). The answer relates to what someone else already pointed out in this thread: Those of us who grew up with it and surround ourselves with it just don't know any better. That's why I totally agree with a point made earlier that boards like this should indeed also discuss positive behaviors, as they contrast with the negative N behaviors.
If I can help anyone in fast tracking them through their relationship with an N, then I guess there is another "good" coming out of my relationship with an N (aside from my three great kids!!)
Lizbeth:
This is the best list I have seen. I sent it to my youger son last evening and we spent the rest of the night writing back and forth about how sad it is that 90-95% of these items fit his older brother, my 27 year old NPD son.
Lizbeth (lurker)
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