Does the pain ever stop?

[lahunt]

I am 35 now, and a survivor of family sexual abuse, suicide attempts, eating disorders, and emotional and physical abuse.  To my parents' credit, they both came from incredibly abusive backgrounds as well.  I have two siblings, both of which are coping with substance abuse, divorces, custody battles, and the like.  They are both still very innappropriately entwined with my narcissistic parents...accepting financial support, allowing them to interfere in relationships, completely care for their children, and so on.

Through decades of therapy, sobriety, and antidepressants, I have moved on and lead a rewarding life with a supportive husband of ten years.  We have a wonderful 1-year-old son, and life couldn't be better.  My dilemma: as the holidays grow nearer, I always dread that I will have to have contact with my cruel parents and crazy brothers.  My folks still do very nasty stuff to me, mainly because I don't get entwined in the family dramas: e.g., nearly boycotting my wedding, boycotting my son's christening, ignoring my achievements, putting down my husband, coming to town every other week to visit my brothers but never ever calling us or dropping by, because my mother took insult to something innocent my husband said after my son was born.

I know what you'll say...I should run as fast as I can, since any contact with them will put me in a funk for days.  But now there's a grandchild involved, and I fear it's unfair to cut them off.  I also feel so sad for them because I feel like it's not their fault that they are the way they are.  Yet, if I never saw or spoke to them again, my life would be so much happier.

Any suggestions? I've been trying to work through this issue for years, and since the birth of my son, the situation is really deteriorating. Thanks...

[Jaded911]

Hi lahunt,

I can sympathise with you about the holidays coming up.  My family (especially my mom) is dysfunctional in their own ways.  Every year the holidays role around I dread them as well because there is always a drama.  It usually revolves around alcohol and most of the time my mom is smack dab in the middle of it.  My mom and dad are divorced, I am divorced from my kids father, so the holiday schdule is very tight.  I made the decision to put my family first.  Who do you consider to be your family lahunt?  Speaking for myself, I feel the day I got married and I began to have children, they became my family.  A family was something I always wanted, well a functional one that is.  I finally had it and it suddenly hit me one year that I continued to feed my moms frenzy when I rearranged my schedule with my family to accomodate her.  

You see all of the advertisements coming out now about Christmas and you remember how you always thought those families looked so perfect on the Xmas shows and the advertisements for Xmas.  I think that added to my awareness how miserable I was with the family I was brought into.  

I let it go.  I made my children and my husband my family and if my maniac mom called me, she called me.  If she would go for months without calling me, so be it, she went months.  Nothing I did as a child pleased her and I promise you nothing I do as an adult pleases her.  Guess I finally and thankfully came to the decision that the woman was so unhappy herself she couldnt be happy with anyone.  So she can just sit there miserable by herself for all I care.  She once made a comment to me that I brilliantly replied to.  Words could not describe how wonderful it felt for me to say this to her.  She told me of course how blah blah bad I treat her, sniff sniff, How that when she died I would cry and regret how I treated her.  I said ya know what, you probably are right.  I will cry, that I do not know for sure.  But I do know this for sure, if I cry when you die, those tears will be for the mother I should have had, not the one I had.  

Make new memories and traditions with the family that loves and appreciates you.  That being your husband and child.  Heck look at it this way.  Even if you do continue to go to her house for the holidays, you are not going to please her about something.  So please yourself and begin new traditions, she will be mad no doubt.  But like I mentioned if you go, she will still have something to bitch about.

[rosencrantz]

Hi Lahunt - I have no wisdom to offer tonight.  Just a reaction.

Tough!  Tough on them!!!

I just cannot understand why we continue to put ourselves through it.  

I fear it's unfair to cut them off. I also feel so sad for them because I feel like it's not their fault that they are the way they are

Yes, been there but finally realised that we react in that way because we are 'normal'.

The thing is that THEY work by different rules.  They don't and won't feel sad for you because they are not capable of knowing what it feels like to be you.  And you are projecting how YOU would feel in similar circumstances, not how they really WILL feel!!!  Do they really care - and for healthy reasons (ie not just for show)???

There's nothing 'unfair' in doing something that will prevent them from damaging you. Why would it be 'fair' to them to give them an opportunity put you into a funk?  I think that we, the victims, are trained to become masochists (kick me again so I know that you love me).

Don't do it.

From what you say, they constantly manipulate you to make you conform and return back to the fold - and so far you're doing a pretty mega job of keeping out of the fire. Don't let guilt and those soft feelings of motherhood lead you back in!  Your child has no need to be touched by them in any way whatsoever and they don't deserve the privilege of touching.

Good luck whatever you decide.
R

[Nic]

Hi Lahunt,
Right off the bat ,let me say  I understand your feelings.  It's not easy to leave your parents..i've left my family in the last year and can confirm that it's been the best decision for my emotional survival that I have ever made.  Even better than the first time I went to therapy to save my skin from an abusive N family.
It is not uncommon from time to time (and despite your stating that things are good for you now) to retreat to a state I like to call, residual transient victim guilt.  I've experienced it in that if I go for more than a certain number of days feeling good about everything and taking care of myself I consciously or more often unconsciously revert to looking for the familiar feeling of being uncomfortable.  It's a strange mechanism, but Lahunt I have to tell you that it is an unhealthy reflex.   It is a negative and automatic response to years of destructive programming learned in a very toxic family.
I take a deep breath, really feel the emotions of guilt from which this pseudo kiss and make up manifestation stems from,  look at myself in the mirror and say : " Now Nic..do you realise this is a trap?"   "Yes " I answer myself back.  " Do you really want to go back to that environment, knowing full well you tried to fix it for years and that time after time it blew up in your face?!!!" " NO!!!" I answer  myself, the Nos keep getting louder and more emphatic as I go down my check list.

I've noticed that when I feel guilty or "long" for my N family it is often when I experience loneliness.  Often my wife is at the dentist or away for a couple of hours , I get to feeling lonely and when I feel this unpleasant emotion, i've observed that I'm prone to having these momentary relapses of feeling sorry for my abusers, also when I'm tired.  I've even caught myself imagining my wife dead and wondering if I would go back to my family if that were to happen!!

The brainwashing and training/programming experienced in  our N abusive homes is so toxic it creeps up on us when we least expect it doesn't it!.* nodding head and taking your hand* It's there to ruin the good times and the peace.  It is demonic but it can be short-circuited.

 As a result of all this, I have found  I need to develop the ability to expect when this is going to happen.  As I am often alone at that time i've learned to coach myself with the checklist in front of the mirror routine.  It's kinda like counting your blessings while looking at yourself..brings me face to face literally with my own reflection and not someone elses ie: my horrible N parents.
Just a suggestion and relating my own experience with Residual Transient Victim Guilt, oh heck let's call it RTVG!
No abusive N toxic parent, spouse or entire family deserves the right to take one more drop of your blood or mine...cut them off.  They are trespassing into your subconscious and that is out of bounds! That is too close.  I experienced emotional incest in my childhood and am guarding my personal space more than ever!
 Congrats btw for bringing up a very important stumbling block for all of us in recovery!  Pat yourself on the back for identifying a problem in that area.  Spooky at times this recovery business huh!
Very kind regards, Nic

[Anonymous]

lahunt,

I'm sorry your family is so mean to you and your husband. I'm wondering what kind of behavior your child would be exposed to. If he's exposed to some friendly cousins and a "good enough" environment, maybe it's okay. But if people are yelling at you and your husband, maybe your child doesn't need to see that. What do you think?

bunny

[seeker]

Hi Iahunt,

I'd like to second Nic and Bunny's thoughts.  And I'd like to also say that compassion is something we nice folks like to give to others.  It makes us feel good!  My Big Lesson of My Life is that I can be nice, compassionate, giving, etc. but it doesn't have to come at my own expense.  ("Oh, you say I'm a 'mean' person if I eat my own sandwich instead of giving it to you"???? )  Basically, my achilles heel is that I want people to know I am a good person...but I owe it to myself not to put up with BS no matter what anybody thinks.  And BTW, I am way more compassionate when people take responsibility for their own pain and get help, vs. exploiting their situation to manipulate people.

Everyone may have a different pain threshold.  As an individual, I could play "bullfighter" and let a lot of stuff fly by me.  But now with kids it's a little trickier in the ring.  The N of my life would take candy from a baby and didn't hesitate to try and manipulate and headtrip my kids.  She tried to use them as pawns.  She knew I had her number and tried to use my kids' affectionate nature to keep us hooked in an unhealthy situation.  Nope.  No more.

Before your child gets much older, you might want to consider and evaluate what kind of people you want your child to get attached to.  Your child has a chance to develop healthy attachments.  IMHO, the child's health comes first.  Although you feel compassion for your parents, you won't fix anything by sacrificing anybody else's health.  

If someone is drowning, throw them a rope.  If they feel insulted and insist they are excellent swimmers, for goodness sake, don't jump in and drown with them!  

I'm wondering also if some of the discomfort is wondering if your child will ask someday why there are no grandparents in the picture.  Your son isn't currently old enough to know differently, so perhaps it's really about wanting to have a Hallmark family (I still suffer from this   ) Your hopes and dreams for your new child are fresh and new.  It's really natural to want our children to have the good things we didn't have.  I'd place my bet on you to provide those good things (like Love!) vs. your parents.  When your child is older, this doesn't have to be an issue unless it is made into an issue.  Kids will take their cue from us.  If we wring our hands over this arrangement, they will too.  If we don't and we're okay confident with our decisions, they will be too.  

Perhaps there are other ways to address a lack of healthy grandparenting.  You or your child may become good friends with a senior neighbor or coworker that truly enjoys your company.  You might someday explain how you feel about your parents, you don't blame them for the way they are, etc., but you care enough about yourself and your child to make sure he or she is treated kindly and appropriately.  Keeping it short, simple and honest is the way to go.  Kids really can handle it and it can be a valuable lesson in self-respect.  Self-respect is not selfishness!!!  So, as much as your parents deserve fairness (fairness can be defined differently by understanding their behavior without accommodating it), your child deserves emotionally safe relationships.  

We are also surrounded by reminders of extended family during the holidays.  Many do get together with relatives to diss the bean casserole.  Just as many families celebrate in other ways to make holidays different and special for themselves without subjecting themselves to the jello salad.  Some take a trip, some go to the shelter and serve the poor, some decorate their houses to the hilt or have a cookie party with friends.  (I guess I am writing this as much for myself as for you, Iahunt   My husband and I just had a conversation this morning to psych up for the holidays   )...My goal this year is to create the atmosphere I desire in my own home.  Anything else good is gravy.  (Oh, no pun intended!)

I know it's got to be painful to make decisions like this initially, esp. as a new parent.  You want to do it "right".  Just the fact that you are thinking these things through carefully is a really great sign, no matter what you ultimately decide!  You know the importance of it.

Good luck to you and everybody during the holidays.  xo, S.

[seeker]

Oh, for crying out loud, it's me again...

I just reread everyone's posts on this thread (inc. Jaded and Rosencranz!) I really like the TOUGH, TOUGH ON THEM!!! part.  I think I'll post it over my computer.  When I read that I said, Yeah!  and it reminded me that we can never win, but we can choose how we "lose" with them.  Your folks aren't going to be happy no matter what you decide.  It won't make any difference in how they feel.  So why not decide to be happy?  That way, you "lose" and you win!  

Bye for now, S.