So when do you finally throw in the towel and give up?

[Jo Jo]

I've been married for almost 6 years. I noticed something was wrong by our first anniversary. The first counselor we went to told me he is a Narcissist and she voiced her concern for my health should I stay in this marriage. My husband was my High School fiance,,,we broke up and got married 21 years later.  It was a dream, now it's a nightmare.I am past heartbroken...I'm not completely sure he is an N, but he does have several N traits.  I am tired...so tired. I keep hoping he'll change but that would take a huge change in the way he perceives the world.

I just wondered if someone would be interested in talking to me.

[chutz]

Hi Jojo,

Lots of people on this board would be interested in taking to you.  I noticed your post and wanted to let you know that.  I'm having a very rough go in my marriage right now, so I won't say too much.  But stick around, you'll be amazed at the love and insight.  

Sincerely,

Chutzbagirl

[JoJo]

Thank you Chutzbagirl...I jappreciate your reply. I just wanted to say, I read your May 9 letter and could relate so much to what you are going through.  At this moment, my husband's belongings are packed in trash bags...that is how close I am to ending this.

I hope things get better for you soon. Maybe we can talk more when things are better.

JoJo

[Anonymous]

JoJo:

If your therapist has told you your H is an N.  Then he probably is.  Please post here for your sanity.  It is hard to come to terms with what you have.  We have all been there.  Doubting our judgements about what is going on.  This is what an N is about.  The "crazy making" is intended to make you feel that way, to doubt yourself, so you will continue to stay in the situation and give the N supply.  I am sorry you are in this situation. Please focus on what you need and how to get out ASAP.

Please continue to post as there are others here with great insight that can be very helpful.

Keep on keeping on
Patz

[write]

but we were actually together 23 years on and off.

It was like having invested so much I couldn't give up.

Until eventually I lost my health and my priorities changed...almost like my body took over.

We have a great relationship now, done at a distance, but both in therapy and finally he stepped up to the plate and started taking responsibility for himself.

But I'd never go back, and his therapist told him if we did he can expect to return to old patterns of relating very quickly

It's lonely being alone sometimes, so I got me a puppy.

Good luck; making the break is the hardest. Get support from impartial friends and hopefuly a therapist is my advice.

[forwardbound]

I wasn't married, but involved for four years with and N and now out of the relationship for four months. You feel like you've invested so much because you have and YOU is the operative word.

I know it's a marriage and I know (having been married too) it's not easy to give  that up and add the N factor, you have the combination of married and believing that perfect man you fell for still exists somewhere inside of him.

I think that counseling is the best thing you could do for yourself and tons of research...there's a lot of it out there. I think you need to look at you and the tolls it's taken thus far on yourself. From all my reading  (and then seeing myself in the relationship), to stay with an N means that you have to adjust your life completely to fit their needs....and it still may never seem like enough--you get so little in return.

Stick with the counseling and the answers WILL come to you.

[October]

I just wondered if someone would be interested in talking to me.

Of course people will be interested in talking to you, Jo Jo.  Nice to have you around.  

In answer to your question, I finally gave up at the point where I realised that my ex was more interested in himself than in me or our child.  Very hard lesson to learn, but I learned it, and the marriage was then over.  Took some time after that to sort out the details, but it was over from that point.

The last straw for me was returning home with our daughter after she had been in hospital, when she was almost 2.  She had been poorly for some time, and became dehydrated.  She was admitted and put on a drip for 3 days, and I had stayed with her all that time, the first night sleeping beside her cot on a plastic chair.  We came home to find the beds not made, and no meal for me.  I had to make her bed, put her into it, then make myself a Marmite sandwich for my tea.

Meanwhile, x had spent the time ringing our friends getting lots of sympathy, telling everyone she had suspected meningitis long after the doctors told us that actually it was not meningitis.  But it was a good story.  That was all he cared about.  

As I made that bed, and put my daughter into it, and sang her to sleep, something inside died, and the marriage was over.

The most important thing to remember is that Ns cannot change.  Don't wait around for that.  If what you have is ok for you, then stay.  If not, then go, or make him go.  But don't expect change.  

[longtire]

JoJo, welcome here!  You didn't mention whether you have any children, so I'll assume you don't.  Please feel free to correct me if have that wrong.

I have been married to a woman for 17 years.  She "changed" the day after we got married.  Actually, she just stopped pretending and started acting like her real self as soon as she "had" me.  And she had me alright.  I kept trying to figure out what *I* had done wrong to cause her to treat me this way.   And I stayed for many years.  Through depression and therapy, through numbness.  I finally "woke up" and decided that I was not willing to live that way any longer.  I guess I was finally ready.

I have been separated from my wife for two weeks tomorrow.  I feel better than I ever remember!  When I go home, there is no one to either ignore or nag me about anything.  There is no one there to lay 110% of the blame on me.  I can just go home to a place that I provide for myself (well OK God helped a little ) and just be myself.  I don't need to watch for landmines because I won't allow anyone who lays them to come in.  It was a real struggle for me to get to the point where I could leave.  Always in the past fear of being alone and panic attacks kept me stuck there.  Maybe I will have more emotional fallout or regret from leaving, but right now I feel more relief and de-pressurization.

JoJo, in some ways I don't think it matters whether your husband is an N or has N traits or not.  Your reaction tells that there is something seriously wrong with the relationship.  On the other hand, if he is N run and don't look back.  I have found that concentrating on taking care of myself is the biggest help.  Getting enough sleep, rest, healthy food, medicine, alone time, whatever I need.  The other thing is to wait until I know what I want.  Not what I don't want and not to force a decision I am not ready for.  I had to learn this  the hard way this year.  Still, the new results of my new behavior is more than worth it.  IF you do decide to leave, make sure that you have a good support system of helpful friends and family, if possible.  Get a pet.  Animals are great for giving unconditional love.

Glad you are here!

[JoJo]

Thank you all for writing. I can tell, you are full of insight and I feel better already knowing you are all there.  Our stories are so similar.

Yes, I've wondered what I've done wrong to set him off or make him so rageful. He hasn't done this for awhile, but what I hate the most is when he's  felt I've given him a "bad" look;he has become so enraged..verbal abuse, threats of abandonment, even in front of my family. He is like a volcano...a few everyday things don't go right, then one more little thing hits him wrong and he blows.

He cannot be wrong or questioned either...he takes great offense to it. I can't even discuss everyday decisions about how to do things because he perceives it as doubting his abilities.

When he came back to me after 21 years, he told me he didn't drink anymore. Just last Saturday, he went for a ride on his Harley and finally came home, drunk at 2am. He does this inconsiderate act about once a quarter or so.  The time before this, Dec 17, he promised not to do it again. I told him if he did, he may as well not come home. I do have all his things packed and ready for him to move out. Now he has told me that he and I have too much together and he does not want to lose me, so he will not drink anymore.
I know, I know, he'll do it again. I am much stronger than I was 5 years ago when i noticed the big change in the man who swept me off my feet. This last time he binged, I barely cried.

My parents have known him since we were 17.  They love him like their own son. He helps any family member in need. He is generous with his time and skills. He just has a huge chip on his shoulder. I know I can't stay much longer...We've been to 3 counselors, and none were worth the $80 -$120 per hr.

No biological kids,  2 stepsons and a daughter in law who will be very sad if we divorce.

Thanks for listening. And longtire, you're right. It doesn't really matter if he is a N or not. It's a matter of making a choice. Thanks for your support everyone. Looking forward to talking to you.  


JoJo

[mum]

(((Jo Jo))).  Oh, sweetie, how hard.  A lot of us have been in that pain.  You have to decide what you want your life to be like.  Picture it, feel it, and make it happen.  If it includes him, then have faith that it will be so, and that you can work together to get past this.  It sounds like you've tried and only you know if it's worth another go.  If you are dealing with drinking, it's like having another relationship in your marriage...his relationship with drinking.  Only it's unpredictable and very possibly his deeper attachment.

Start imagining what you really want from life.  Start to identify that.  What would that feel like?  When you can FEEL what you want, not just think it, events will unfold in front of you to show you the path to that life.  You will make decisions and have hard choices, but have faith that in it's infinite love, the universe/God will take care of you and give you what you need.  It will not be easy, but you can make the life you want.

Decide to love yourself enough to dream that life....and deserve that life.
Do you really deserve a steady diet of raging?  My ex is like that.  I couldn't fix him as he had so much deep trauma (drinking is his escape, too) that he will probably never go down there to look at it.  I decided to love myself entirely before anyone else....and that changed everything for me.
It is not selfishness to do so...it is what you must do to ever be able to truly love others.

Love is not painful.  I used to think that if it hurt, it must be love.  That was the most totally wrong thing I believed (among many).  I am overjoyed that I found that out.

Hang in there, keep posting.  There are good things here.

[Brigid]

JoJo,

Welcome to this site.  You will find it very helpful.

My T also was the one to tell me my H is an N.  I had never heard of the disorder and knew nothing about it.  Through time on this site, other reading and a lot of therapy, I now know there was nothing I could have done differently and I will be better off in the long run.

My H also has an addiction, but it was entirely hidden from me and I knew nothing about it until he decided he was leaving the marriage for another woman.  We were married for 22 years and had 2 children.

The whole experience makes you crazy and for awhile I thought I was in the twilight zone.  As mum said and others too, you must look into yourself and what you are willing to accept.  My H gave me no options about working on the marriage, but maybe that was God watching out for me and giving me a chance for a happy future.  I'm not sure I would ever have made the decision to leave.  Once I knew all the facts, maybe, but I'll never know.

Keep looking into yourself and trying to find the strength to do what is best for you.  You are in my prayers.

Brigid

[bunny]

Yes, I've wondered what I've done wrong to set him off or make him so rageful. He hasn't done this for awhile, but what I hate the most is when he's  felt I've given him a "bad" look;he has become so enraged..verbal abuse, threats of abandonment, even in front of my family. He is like a volcano...a few everyday things don't go right, then one more little thing hits him wrong and he blows.

You didn't do anything to make him like this. You're just the target he conveniently uses to vent his rage. The rage was present before you met. He has serious problems. Very serious.

When he came back to me after 21 years, he told me he didn't drink anymore. Just last Saturday, he went for a ride on his Harley and finally came home, drunk at 2am. He does this inconsiderate act about once a quarter or so.  The time before this, Dec 17, he promised not to do it again. I told him if he did, he may as well not come home. I do have all his things packed and ready for him to move out. Now he has told me that he and I have too much together and he does not want to lose me, so he will not drink anymore.

He's testing you and he will definitely do it again. He wants to know that you will tolerate ANYTHING from him as a test of your "love." The problem is, if you pass the test you pay an incredibly high price. And he'll test you again and again anyway. So passing the test is actually not a good thing. It would be far better if you failed the test and saved yourself. Yeah, everyone would be sad if you divorced. But they aren't living your life; you are. So you get to decide how your own life goes.

bunny

[mudpup]

Hi jojo,

My parents have known him since we were 17. They love him like their own son. He helps any family member in need. He is generous with his time and skills. He just has a huge chip on his shoulder.

This is part of the act for many Ns. They treat with kid gloves anyone who accepts their behavior and anyone who can make them look good. But there is almost always some focus for the outlet of pain and anger and lies, almost invariably the person they are closest to.
Your parents love the phony generous act he puts on for them, not him. They don't even know the real him. You do.

Since his belongings are already in trash bags, why not just leave them out on the curb on trash day? After all, he can only carry about one on his Harley when he leaves anyway.

Sorry, jojo, I have a very serious smart a$$ problem. I don't mean to make light of a serious situation. I just mean to make light of creepy, rageful, inconsiderate lunkheads, especially married ones.  

mudpup

[JoJo]

I just wanted to say thank you to "Mum", I will work on it. Thank you so much.

Jo Jo

[longtire]

When you can FEEL what you want, not just think it, events will unfold in front of you to show you the path to that life.

Wow, mum, well put!