Ns and gifts

[Guest2]

I found this topic mentioned on an old thread.  I remember when we were small, gift giving occasions were very fearful.  My mother did not like, no make that hated and was insulted by, most of the gifts we gave her, be it birthday, mother's day, Christmas, you name it.  She would rant and scream and cry for hours.  My sister and I were shaking in our shoes, would go out and spend the little free time and all the money we had, and be scared to death because we could not predict what colossal insult our inocent gift was going to represent to my mom.

And I found myself yelling about a gift to my husband!  Now he does not give me any gifts.  I don't know if I was completely off base or not.  Perhaps I am an N?  I had asked him not to get anything expensive and no gadgets.  So he got me an expensive digital camera.   He had even asked about that and I said, no I like the camera I have.  But he didn't like my camera.  However, I was completely ashamed to see myself so angry about it, and in front of the kids.  Am I turning into my mom?  Is my hubby an N?  Heeeellllppppp  mmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[write]

you are not turning into your mother! ( many women's secret fear! )

Your husband ignored what you asked, you were annoyed. It wasn't so much the gift as his not listening to you, was it.

Maybe you could have a talk with your husband and sort it out, or is this symptomatic of bigger problems?

One of the things many of us on this board struggle with is when we vent our anger; having spent years trying to keep the peace or walking on eggshells we've suppressed our own quite reasonable emotions for a long time.

I have bipolar disorder and it is common for people to get angry or rage- I rarely do. My doctors asked me about it, and I can only think it's years of living with people who if I ever got angry they got angrier; I suppose it's done me a favour at times when the illness has gotten out of control!

Take care, don't beat yourself up.

[Guest2]

you are not turning into your mother! ( many women's secret fear! )

Your husband ignored what you asked, you were annoyed. It wasn't so much the gift as his not listening to you, was it.

Maybe you could have a talk with your husband and sort it out, or is this symptomatic of bigger problems?[/

Um, yes.  He does not want me to talk, basically. Now it is down to the logistics of running the household and the kids.  Other than that we rarely talk and having gotten out of the habit I no longer feel the urge, at least with him.  But having this message board is really opening me up.  I think I am getting addicted to voicing my thoughts.  It feels good.

Thanks for your reassurances.  Please don't let me be my mom!

[write]

is accepting- things aren't acceptable.

And for people raised by n's, we're so conditioned to putting someone else ( unreasonable ) first, it takes a lot to unlearn that behaviour.

It takes time to grow into ourselves as people outside of that, but as you say once we do- it's compulsive.

Take care, here's a hug (((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[longtire]

Hi Guest2!  I agree with write, from what you've said so far it sounds like you were upset more over not being listened to (ignored, even!) rather than the "gift" itself.

Um, yes.  He does not want me to talk, basically. Now it is down to the logistics of running the household and the kids.  Other than that we rarely talk and having gotten out of the habit I no longer feel the urge, at least with him.

I have the same thing with my wife.  She does not want (never really has) to talk about anything having to do with our relationship or be willing to honestly acknowledge and work out problems between us.  She would rather have a relationship where everything is "fun" and we just talk about our daily happenings and that's all.  I'm glad I finally found out her true feelings in this area.  After 17 years of trying to make the relationship work, I moved out recently to my own place.  No more blame, no more hopeless "discussions."  Of course, I believe my wife has Borderline PD, so your mileage may vary.

But having this message board is really opening me up.  I think I am getting addicted to voicing my thoughts.  It feels good.

I'm glad you're here.  Keep posting and finding your voice and yourself.

Thanks for your reassurances.  Please don't let me be my mom!

Just being aware and not wanting to be your mother shows you are not like her.  I suggest spending more time getting to know yourself and I think you will realize more and more that you are truly your own person, not an extension of your mother.

[Guest2]

I guess there is also the other side to the N+gift issue.  My mom has always insisted on giving me things I ought to want.  When I explained that I much prefer to buy my clothes myself, she could not understand why!  So I just take them and keep them, because of course if I get rid of them she will ask about them and be offended.

To my sister, who is large in size, she insists on knowing her size, which fluctuates, then when my sister won't tell her (wise move) she speculates about it to everyone and says how many nice things she would buy her if she would tell her size.   And what a pity it is she will not lose weight.

Once she was complaining about a friend who keeps giving her things she does not like, and although she has explained several times that she does not like it, the friend continues.  The irony was almost too much to bear, but I have lots of practice.  I asked if she had explained to the friend that she did not like that kind if gift, and she said yes.  My response was, there is nothing you can do.  Just take it and say thank you.   And I looked at her and I think a light bulb went on in her head.  And for some years she desisted.  But by now she has managed to forget and I am getting clothing again.  Clothing she would like to wear.  Not me.

So I guess that having my husband give me repeated gifts that he liked, even when I had clearly stated my preferences, made me very angry.  (For Christmas I got a set of walkie-talkies.  And other gadgets at otehrs occasions. ) And now I get nothing.  Mother's Day just went by, not even a card.  I wonder what Christmas will be like.

[Portia]

Hi Guest 2, how old are your kids? Are they too young to organise a card for you themselves on Mother’s Day? It’s pretty sad that you didn’t get a card.

As for Christmas, how about asking your hubby for the money for your gift and telling him you’ll buy it yourself (while also promising to buy him precisely what he wants)? Seems to me like you need to take control of what gifts you get, because the current situation gets you angry, and that’s not helpful.

About your mother:

So I just take them and keep them, because of course if I get rid of them she will ask about them and be offended.

So let her be offended. To paraphrase what another member said ages ago, nobody dies from being offended. I imagine keeping these clothes is a reminder that keeps you angry. Liberate it all to a charity shop or to friends and let those feelings go too. No-one says you have to keep stuff your mother gives you. If she asks you about something, just say it’s gone. Can you do that? Chuck the stuff?

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you married your mother. He's as insensitive, selfish, and passive-aggressive as she is. It was an unconscious setup you gave yourself, to test whether you'll also react as your mother did. The setup had a 100% guaranteed positive outcome. Here is the main deal: it's pretty rare to get a gift we want, rather than what someone else wants us to have. However, we can mitigate this by giving OURSELVES what we want, and then we don't have to wait for others to do it. I know this is kind of disappointing but that has been my experience. I buy myself presents I truly want, so what others give me is extra. This includes my husband. He's already trained not to buy me things.

bunny

[sleepyhead]

Guest 2, I agree with the rest here, you are not your mother, but maybe your husband is... I am also very sensitive about gifts, but these days I have no qualms about changing them. I guess "bad" gifts upset us because we feel that gifts should be about us. If we are children of N's we are not spoilt with anyhting being about us, but surely our birthday should be? Anyway, this year we were really busy around my fiancés birthday, so I didn't have time to get him a gift, instead he said what he wanted and asked if it would be okay if he got it (since we are unemployed and expecting a baby). Thius was great, he got what he wanted (a graphics card for the computer, somehting I could never have bought for him, since I don't have a clue which one to get). Maybe this is an idea for you and your h? If you go and get it together, it can be a nice time together.

Take care and good luck with mother and husband.

[guest2]

Thanks to everyone for listening.  It is such a high for me to be listened to and responded to!  Yes!

Longtire, I wonder about your situation.  Why did you stay so long and how did you find the courage to leave?  I think about leaving my husband every day, but I do not want to hurt my kids.  So I stay. And I don't know if I will find someone else.  I feel so lonesome already, should I think a. it can't be worse than this or b. it can get a lot worse if I leave?

I think my husband grew up in a very repressed environment and he is not going to entertain the idea of changing or looking carefully at himself.  I only really started to when my dad died.  Maybe we have to wait for his dad to die?  I do not do well with passive aggressives.  On the other hand I am no prize.  I have a lot of work to do all the time to not become my mother.   Sometimes I open my mouth to my kids and there she is, pouring out!  Then I have to apologize and hug them.  I just want those times to stop.  

Thanks guest and sleepyhead for letting me know I married my mother!   I had a good laugh at that one.   Oh man I hope you are wrong, at least in some small,  obscure way.....ok you are right.  I would take your advice and buy myself something, but I manage the money so there is no one to ask, and when I go out to treat myself I just can't do it!  I come back home with some groceries or toys for the kids.  And I resent my husband for being able to treat himself.  Am I twisted or what?  That is why I'm so mad about the gifts - it would be my only chance to get something nice, even a nice experience.  

Ok, I think I have ranted long enough!
Thanks again.

[longtire]

guest2, so much of what you say sounds familiar to me from my own experience.  I'll share what I've learned in my own life.  Take what helps and leave the rest.

Longtire, I wonder about your situation.  Why did you stay so long and how did you find the courage to leave?  I think about leaving my husband every day, but I do not want to hurt my kids.  So I stay. And I don't know if I will find someone else.  I feel so lonesome already, should I think a. it can't be worse than this or b. it can get a lot worse if I leave?

You and your husband are teaching your kids the only way they will know to have a relationship.  Just like your parents taught you.  I realized that I would NEVER want my daughter to be in a relationship like mine.  So why did I think it was OK for me to stay?  A double-standard is just that whether used against others or against myself.

I stayed for so long because I am awfully good at suppressing and ignoring what is staring me in the face.  For a long time I made myself depressed and then on the second round I "just" made myself numb.  So, I was not consciously aware of what was really going on because it felt too scary to admit that I'd been tricked and made a huge mistake and that I would have to alone on my own instead of alone together.  This third time around I was sick of my previous strategies, so I committed to myself to face whatever comes and not run away again.  It is definitely tougher to do, but FAR more rewarding.  In the end I was so aware of the problems that I hit the wall and had to leave for my own health.  It was not so much courage, but necessity.  BTW, I DON'T recommend waiting that long as a good strategy!

I think my husband grew up in a very repressed environment and he is not going to entertain the idea of changing or looking carefully at himself.  I only really started to when my dad died.  Maybe we have to wait for his dad to die?  I do not do well with passive aggressives.  On the other hand I am no prize.  I have a lot of work to do all the time to not become my mother.   Sometimes I open my mouth to my kids and there she is, pouring out!  Then I have to apologize and hug them.  I just want those times to stop.

Your husband will face things and change in his own time.  That may be never.  There is nothing you can do about that.  It has to come from him.  You have turned that corner for yourself, and even if you can't always be perfect (welcome to the human race ) you are challenging your previous understandings and behavior.  You will get there, it is just a matter of time.  You will take as long as you need (not want) to get there.

Thanks guest and sleepyhead for letting me know I married my mother!   I had a good laugh at that one.   Oh man I hope you are wrong, at least in some small,  obscure way.....ok you are right.  I would take your advice and buy myself something, but I manage the money so there is no one to ask, and when I go out to treat myself I just can't do it!  I come back home with some groceries or toys for the kids.  And I resent my husband for being able to treat himself.  Am I twisted or what?  That is why I'm so mad about the gifts - it would be my only chance to get something nice, even a nice experience.

I had a similar situation as well.  My wife would spend all the cash and then rack up credit cards because that wasn't "enough."  I compensated my not spending anything.  I was the one running around trying to find ways to pay for her spending.  Here near the end, with a joint therapists pressure, she finally agreed to abide by an equal budget.  That  way I know exactly how much I can spend each much and can plan around that.  If I want to eat more cheaply, I have more money for fun.  My wife still looks for opportunities to get more than half because of some special circumstance, but I've held my ground.  She is not any more (or less) special than I am and I deserve just as much as she does.  Having the budget helped me to trust that ll the important bills would get paid for and there was still $X leftover that I could decide how I wanted to spend it.  Freedom!  Choice!  Beautiful things!

Ok, I think I have ranted long enough!

I don't think you have yet begun to rant....

[Guest2]

longtire wrote:<You and your husband are teaching your kids the only way they will know to have a relationship. Just like your parents taught you. >

Yes, this is the scary part.  My parents had no relationship.  So I know that I know nothing.    My husband's parents are still married, but they seemt oi keep their relationship very very private.   So I am not sure my husband learned anything, other than to stay married.  

If I am a single parent, what will my kids learn?  Nothing, as I did, or the bad parts that I have had experience with?  If we stay together, are there at least some good things they can build on?

Thanks for sharing your experience.  It is so hard to start this process but I am not sure it would have happened without the people on this board.

[a gift joke]

so they had enuf coupons or whatever
to select a free gift

she asked what he liked
he said a fishing tackle thing
but said he
thinks it would be better
to get the dryer she wanted

she said no
she wanted him to get the tackle

he said really she should get the dryer

she said
no no u spent most the money getting
the coupons
so you should get the tackle..

he said ok

she said
c
c
cc
c
c
c
c
c
c
c
cc
c
c

cc
c
c
c
ok some guessed it

SHE SAID
IF THAT ISNT THE MOST SELFISH THING..
AND WENT INTO A RAGE...


HELP
HELP HELP

[Guest2]

SHE SAID
IF THAT ISNT THE MOST SELFISH THING..
AND WENT INTO A RAGE...

The situation is actually very commonplace.  If you doubt this, look at any sitcom plot.  You underestimated how long you should insist on her having what she wanted.    The difference is that she perhaps had a really extreme reaction, due to (fill in the blank).  

What is your question?  Is it
- what did I do wrong (see above)
- why is she so angry (years of therapy ought to resolve this one)
- what do I do now (is this a pattern? does she realize her reaction was extreme?)

[Guest2]

"So let her be offended. To paraphrase what another member said ages ago, nobody dies from being offended. I imagine keeping these clothes is a reminder that keeps you angry. Liberate it all to a charity shop or to friends and let those feelings go too. No-one says you have to keep stuff your mother gives you. If she asks you about something, just say it’s gone. Can you do that? Chuck the stuff?"

Thanks Portia.  Of course you are right.  I an sick of these old lady hand me downs hanging around!