Newby

[mum]

Hi, Newby. I think it's important to express how mad and frustrated you are.  Scream it..it may help!

At some point, when you are through identifying it and acknowledging it and screaming about it (which, I believe is a step NOT to miss), then you will find a way to let it go and move on.  It will happen.

Easy for me to say, no?  Actually, it comes down to some kind of faith.  In ourselves, in God, in others, in goodness.
Nothing is wasted, nothing is a mistake.... it's all learning.

I could regret the 25 years I spent away from the "right" man for me...it was a seperation of my own doing.  I could have had children with him instead of the idiot I did have kids with.  But after feeling that regret (after finding him again) and announcing and really exploring how it feels, I found it was no longer productive to my happiness to continue feeling bad.  I have no idea if I had married him way back when if we could have stayed married. No one ever really knows.  All I know is, things have a way of unfolding in ways we never expect.....and if you keep the faith that there will be goodness, then you will find it.

42? You're a baby!!!!   Hang in there.  If you see yourself as a father.... you never know how that will play out.  Bless you!

[STEPS]

I THINK THERE
can be steps backward that are foolish
and could have been avoided
and cause extra needless anquish
but that nevertheless
in the long run
god's power can heal all
and one's part is to recognize
if one is complicit with a fallen sinful nature
that they might need convicted of
and to repent
and accept the holy spirit that
teaches all things
because it does not speak of self

see jesus last supper discourse in john

[Newby]

Mum,
Are you saying you had a decent guy then fell for the idiot, then ended up with the decent guy much later and it didn't work?  I am sorry if I misread this.  I do believe in universal justice as I had a great girl from a good family when I was 18 and I totally messed it up out of immaturity at about 27.  Then I got this nut job.  I hope my karma is changing.  After messing up that first relationship, I learned my lesson and vowed to not make the same mistake again.   I can't think of anything else God wants to hit me for.  I have been sowing a lot of good seed for the past 12 years so I hope a harvest is coming.

[mum]

Don't worry Newbie....not understanding my writing puts you into a very big club here!!!! (ok, Mudpup, you don't really have to chime in here if you don't want to, unless to make Newby feel even more like part of the club!!!! )
Man, if you guys could just hear me speak, it would make sense.....full of intonations and dramatice flair!!!   It's that right brain dominance thing....yeah, that's it!!!
AH, well.
Here's the deal: I was engaged to a great guy 25 or so years ago.  I left, never to return (2000+ miles).  Dumped him badly.
Married a jerk, had children, divorced him, did nothing to heal and married another confused person (briefly), divorced him did the work I should have done in the first place (therapy related) and......
Great guy and I reconnect!
SOOOO, when you least suspect it, the universe/God hands you what you need in a state of unconditional love. Keeping faith isn't essential, I mean it's going to happen anyway. But having faith makes it easier and happier to travel the road.
 Even the "bad" has meaning. I have 2 amazing children I get to be a mom to!!  My fiance has a beautiful child he gets to be a dad to.  I have an enormous struggle I get to learn from.  
It's all good....because I choose how I deal with it.

[mudpuppy]

Hi mum,

I always understand what you're saying.

I might have to stand on my head and read it a couple more times, but I always end up getting it.  

Lets face it the world is stacked against us right brainers.    

mud

[Newby]

Mum,
I take it your fiance is the great guy from 25 yrs ago?  If that is the case, it is amazing how things work out. God's will be done no matter how badly we mess things up.  My younger brother had a good girl when he was 18 and he messed it up.  He went onto other relationships and personal growth until God really put him in a corner and brought him to his knees.  He ended up reconnecting with the good girl 19 yrs later, get married within 6 months and now have a beautiful 2yr old son.  They have had issues to work through but they are doing great with a Christian therapist who has assisted them in healing all of the wounds they inflicted on themselves through the years apart.

[Anonymous]

Hi Newbie and welcome:

It's a sad, annoying, frustrating, confusing, demeaning, heart wrenching road you've travelled, I think.  I'm sorry for all of that and all you've been through in trying to make a family for you.  The thing is.....imo.....you have to mourn all of the losses you've incurred.

The loss of a loving, compassionate, honourable relationship with someone you love.
The loss of the life you thought you would have.
The loss of your role as a husband.
The loss of children you might have had with this person.
Etc.

Maybe it would help to make a list of those losses and really grieve over them?  The reason I think this is important is because you will then release the pain inside and be one of those dudes showing up in the next relationship with a bunch of.....baggage.  You can empty those suit cases out and be free of their weight.

.....she is just going on happy like nothing ever happened.

Ya know what?  These people are never happy.  Thank your lucky stars that you can mourn and grieve and get the pain out, examine whatever errors you made, learn from them, and move on.   You know what joy is and will find it again.  But this person you were married to, she does not know what pains her, does not know how to mourn it, will never examine herself or her errors because she's too terrified to admit that there could possibly be anything wrong with HER, she won't learn a thing that is positive or that will help her to find what she actually needs/wants, will never know joy and is stuck........in the same pathetic place she has been in for ages.  She may be able to pretend she's happy, look like she's happy and put on a good show but really.....deep inside......she's not happy.....she's afraid and alone and hasn't a clue how to connect intimately with another human being.

I'm a woman, in case you're wondering and I welcome you here and offer to listen and share in your losses/grief/pain, as I'm sure many others will too.  But more so.....I wish to instill hope in you....that you will learn from all of this....you will trust and love again and it's not too late to start a family....with the right person, if it is meant to be.  Hold onto your hope for a better life...it might be, as mum so often puts it, just around the corner!

GFN

[Anonymous]

It would really help if I proof read and wasn't so impatient and quick to press "submit"

The reason I think this is important is because you will then release the pain inside and be one of those dudes showing up in the next relationship with a bunch of.....baggage.

Should be:

The reason I think this is important is because you will then release the pain inside and not be one of those dudes showing up in the next relationship with a bunch of.....baggage.

GFN

[Brigid]

Mum & GFN,

I think I have read enough posts from both of you that I no longer have problems understanding you, Mum and I unconsciously enter missing words for you GFN.  A sign of a true friendship I think.  

Newbie,

It is heartbreaking when we realize that we sacrificed a big piece of our lives for someone who did not appreciate it, took advantage of it, never really loved us back, lied, cheated, manipulated and ultimately devastated us.

For me it was 22 years and I am now 54 years old.  Like mum, tho, I have two wonderful children that will always make the time with him worthwhile.  Obviously, I am not looking to have more children, but I would certainly love to find someone whole, healthy, loving and caring with whom to spend the last half (wishful thinking) of my life.  But before I can do that, I need to do ALL the work necessary to make myself whole and healthy (I think I already have the loving and caring part) so I can bring everything necessary to a relationship that will make it an equal partnership.  

You are certainly not too old to start a family and won't be for some time--the advantage you guys have over us girls.  Take the time now to do the work and the dividends in the future will be huge.  Have faith that God's plan is in place for you and if He lead you to it, He will lead you through it.  

As GFN said, take the time to grieve all the losses, feel the anger and eventually you will find the peace.  After 21 months of therapy, the peace is finally entering my life and the pain and anxiety is slowly slipping away.
I have faith that the same will happen for you if you allow for it.

Blessings,

Brigid

[Newby]

GFN & Brigid
It is nice to have the encouragement and support.  It seems weird to open up to strangers but it really helps to know compassionate hearts exist.  I just keep beating myself up because I kept pushing her abandonment buttons out of total ignorance which makes me blame myself for everything.  When she would bark at me for stupid little stuff I would withdraw or worse yet, threaten to leave her to get her to stop.  A few times, when I was exhausted, I would fall asleep in my recliner while watching TV.  She got very upset and hurt without me even knowing it because she felt abandonded.  I guess I was very secure and comfortable and didn't need someone reassuring me I was loved constantly.  I was kind to her and always treated her respectfully.  I would give to her but I also did some of the things I wanted to.  Because I wasn't always doing exactly what she wanted when she wanted it, she felt we were too different and didn't have common goals.  That wasn't the case, I just believed in balance and compromise.  She feels she has the perfect man now because he just does what she wants and has no interests of his own. I do feel she may have some issues with jealousy over the attention his 16y/o trouble son requires.  I just keep rehashing this stuff and think I am the one who screwed everything up. It is very confusing.  I can forgive so easily and she holds little things against me from 9 yrs ago.  She does the same thing with her family.  Her only relationship is with this other guy.  I think she is rebuilding her relationship with her mother and is blaming for their problems.  I always encouraged to reconcile with her mother and be forgiving.

[Anonymous]

Hiya again Newbie:

(Thanks Brigid for filling in those missed words!  It feels so good to have friends who do that!!  (((((Brigid)))  ).

I just keep rehashing this stuff and think I am the one who screwed everything up.

This rehashing is good.  It helps us to go over what went on and see what we did that might have been done differently.  I really believe this is an important step after any relationship breakup.  There are always mistakes that we made because no one is perfect.  As long as we can learn from our errors and use the information to prevent a repeat, this is a good thing.

But..........if it goes on too long.....and if we find ourselves taking alllllllll of the blame.......well.....that just doesn't sound right, does it?  She's perfect and you're the big boo boo of all male creatures???  This all happened because of stuff only youuuuuuuuuuuu did?  Only youuuuuuuu messed things up........she is completely free of that??

I doubt this very much.  More likely.......you made a few mistakes and she took advantage of every single opportunity to drill those in (is my best bet).

Please don't beat yourself to a pulp.  You may very well have done some things wrong in your relationship and you are even willing to take on the entire blame for it's failure.....but that only tells me that you are human and regretful for whatever you didn't do perfectly.

Do you think she's sitting at home thinking the same stuff??

Is she as human and regretful?

Doesn't she get some of the blame?

(((((((((Newbie)))))))))

GFN

[Anonymous]

I just keep beating myself up because I kept pushing her abandonment buttons out of total ignorance which makes me blame myself for everything.  When she would bark at me for stupid little stuff I would withdraw or worse yet, threaten to leave her to get her to stop.

The way borderline dynamics operate is, they test, test, test (and test) to see how far they can push someone to abandon them. If you'd tolerated her barking, she would have worsened her behavior to provoke you. If you'd tolerated the worse behavior, she would have escalated even more. They make sure they are abandoned. You couldn't have changed it. A borderline is like a sieve, no matter what you provide, it just goes through the holes, is forgotten, devalued, and you are blamed once again. There was nothing you could do except save yourself before you were destroyed. One day you'll see this, but I understand that right now, you feel like you could have rescued her.

bunny

[Newby]

The sick thing is that I look back and see how I had a borderline experience when I was in my young (18yo) relationship.  I kept testing a young lady until she finally blew me off.  I really did a lot of self-evaluation, reading and growing and realized what I had done, repented and vowed to never act that way again.  My bad experience came from my first love at 16 yo.
I was innocent and loved this person who just wrecked my heart.  That scared me to death so I tested my next relationship because I knew eventually she would do the same thing.  I never tested this relationship because I knew love should not be tested.  I was truly able to commit my life to my wife knowing and believing in the marriage covenant.  I have been wrecked again; however, I still will never test love again.  No compassionate human can do this to someone.  It is selfishness in its truest sense.  I was able to accept who she was and never tried to change her.  I supported her to become all that God intended for her to be.  Before we were married I told her that I liked who I had become and if she didn't like who I was, she shouldn't stay with me.  She said she was happy with me and we got married.  She started complaining and trying to change everything about me right after the honeymoon. I did try to compromise but the more I compromised, the more she demanded.  I finally dug my heels in and this infuriated her. I asked her about the discussion prior to the marriage and she said she thought that I would change.

[Newby]

I have been trying to be NC so I can heal.  She sent me an email yesterday asking me to round up any keys for the house and she wished me a happy birthday.  I did not respond and today I got an email stating that she forwarded my credit card bill.  I did not respond because neither email required a response, no game playing.   Just called and left me a vm stating that she would appreciate it if I would respond to her emails because we still have a house, even though she is taking care of everything (I was asked daily when I was leaving).  She said she still cares about me and hopes I am doing well.  What do you all make of this? I believe she just wants me around because I was very good for her and a valuable resource.  She had mentioned before if she could maintain contact with me.  I can't allow myself to be used like that.  There is someone out there who is deserving of everything I have to offer and won't kick me to the curb on a whim (for more passion).  Your take on this will help me read what she is thinking.

[mum]

I think you are on the right track.  Not responding when a response is not necessary is right on.  My ex goes ballistic (ok, even when the sun comes up!) when I don't "respond" to his emails or requests immediately. To the point of sicking his lawyer on me, and taking me to court...
Control freaks want to control the time frame in others as well.
The best advice I got was to respond to emails that really deserve no response with "recieved email".  It acknowledges that you saw it and no more.

Her telling you she cares about you may be true (don't spend any time trying to figure that out!!), but also her needing evidence that she is still doing that....ie: your responding, is all about her placating her own guilt.  That pain is hers to own. You took it from her for years, and she doesn't want that to stop.
Someone here, long ago, talked about putting the lid on the pain receptacle....as in, "sorry, I'm full, you get to keep that pain of yours."

The most compassionate thing we can do for others, is to set our own boundaries. I read this and have been trying to wrap my head around it, which is why I say it a lot lately.  I think it's letting people deal with thier own messes.  They get to learn from thier pain, too.  Let them.

I think you are being very smart here.  Let her stew, her mess is hers.