Newby

[mum]

Good for hanging in there, Newby, with the no response.  Don't be surprised if she finds a way to HAVE to have you respond.  It's funny, in a cruel way, to think of her racking her brain to find just the right thing to get to you...
My ex called last night from out of state just to ask if the children would be ready to see him today and at what times.....ALL of those plans were already made and set through an email last week, but he just HAD to have the contact.  It was pathetic, really.  I just said: yes, we agree on that understanding. bye.
It's good for me to note  WHY he felt the need to call, because he is usually up to something (legal, nasty)...but after I spend about one second determining that I can move on....mostly it's a pathetic attempt to keep some type of contact.

[longtire]

Longtire,
You are very courageous to leave with all that you are losing.  You are right that she just feels I have done everything and she has made no contribution to the break up. I don't even try to explain anything to her because she cannot understand.  She says that I have a narrow head( polish for narrow minded) and that I am a controlling freak. I don't control anything, and she tries to control everything in her life.

Newby, glad to hear that you are staying strong.  At some point we just accept that our replies can't have any positive effects, at least for us.

I have found that my wife's accusations are almost always true if I swap "I/me" and "you."  For example, when she tells me "I'm perfectly fine, you are the one who brought all the problems into our marriage," she really means "You are perfectly fine, I am the one who brought all the problems into our marriage."   Now, this is not true on either point, but I believe it does reflect her beliefs and fears about the situation.  However, for her to be conscious of being less than perfect is like psychological or even physical death to her.  So, her mind protects itself unconsciously by swapping pronouns.  It really rings true in most cases when I do this.  I do try to be aware if she is picking up on something that really is my issue, so I'm not in denial about myself.  That has been pretty rare, though.  She speaks and acts more out of her own fears and internal stuff, than any real observation or commentary on me.

Also, I like what Longtire said:

"The best thing you can do for yourself is detach emotionally.....".

Not the easiest feat but doable, especially with a "narrow head". This particular feature will assist you now....in thinking within only a very narrow space......."detach emotionally.......detach emotionally......"

I agree this is NOT easy, but doable.  Persistence and time help in this.  I just don't want to give the impression that I am saying "Oh, well, you just have to detach, which is so easy everyone can do it anytime, so what's wrong with you?"  I have found detaching is so hard because it goes against my lifetime habits of appeasement and self-blame.

[Newby]

This is just so bizarre.  When I had a relationship end in the past, we didn't stay in contact with each other. The marriage does necessitate some contact but not like this.  I can't understand this need to purposely hurt someone you just destroyed either.  If I hurt someone, I left them alone and even felt guilty for hurting them.  She seems like a shark that when she smells blood, she attacks.  When someone who did something to me shows true remorse, I melt.  I can't hold a grudge against someone who obviously is sorry.  She can't even forgive me for things I actually did to protect and benefit her which she twisted around to be bad. This disorder seems to just blind people from any real truth.  It isn't like they are deceived by someone else, they are deceived from the inside.  I can understand why Scott Peck considers this stuff evil.  When you get mixed up with these people, it just wreaks havoc on you life.  In the weeks following my departure she added me to her email distribution list and would send me dirty jokes.  I was crushed and not in the mood for these types of jokes.  She had no idea what I was going through. She just complained about how she was going to get the snow plowed.  I wish that was my biggest concern.

[Brigid]

Newby,
It is amazing how quickly they can detach and be totally unemotional about destroying your life.  I still remember the conversation I had with my ex a week after he picked up and moved out (actually walked out of a joint therapy appointment, went home, put some clothes in the car, said good-bye to his daughter and left with she and I holding each other and crying).  I became angry about something he said and his reply was "I thought we could just be civil about this."  How he could imagine that someone could go from total and complete devastation to civility in one week, with no other communication in between, still has me baffled.  But it shouldn't, because I now know that that is easy for them because they were never emotionally attached in the first place.

Try not to spend any more time than necessary on trying to figure out why she does what she does, or says what she says.  It will always seem crazy, bizarre, empty and unbelievable to those of us who actually have emotions, care about and love our mates, and have empathy for others.  Work on yourself and getting your feet back on the ground.  The more you can do that, the less likely it will be that she can pull the rug out from under you again.

God bless,

Brigid

[mudpuppy]

Hi Newby,

I need to appoligize for a misunderstanding. When you said you had a fat head, I took that to mean your wife feels you are very intelligent ( head fat, large brain) which is much more valuable than low bodyfat.

No need to apologize. Easy misunderstanding since the brain is something like 70% cholesterol (fat). At least thats what I heard. It would be hard for you to know i was actually referring to external fat as in "What a fathead that mudpup is".

Longtire wrote,

However, for her to be conscious of being less than perfect is like psychological or even physical death to her.

I think this statement is close to being absolutely right.
I would only question one part.
I think they're very conscious of being very imperfect. I think they're terrified of others knowing how imperfect they are.
From my observations I think I would put it this way; For her to allow others to be conscious that she is less than perfect is like psychological or even physical death to her.
I think they hide how self aware they are.

This disorder seems to just blind people from any real truth.

They're 'truth' is they think they are horribly defective and screwed up, and the most terrifying thing that can happen is other people will find out how screwed up they are. This will bring ultimate shame and humiliation onto them, they think. As longtire said, shame unto death.
Borderlines deal with it differently than Ns but the root seems to be pretty much the same. And from what I have read the outlook is not terribly different. Borderlines may more easily submit to therapy, but I haven't seen anyone say they respond much better.
I could be wrong on that. It wouldn't be setting a precedent if I was.

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Mud,

I gotta love it!  

It's such a treat to have cartoons and the Bible quoted ALL IN ONE POST.

You're a trip.

God Bless
Mia

[daylily]

She just complained about how she was going to get the snow plowed.

Isn't that all you really need to know?  I think the hardest thing about coming to terms with this type of relationship is that you have to face the fact that you didn't really exist--not as a separate consciousness with independent thoughts and needs, anyway.  The narcissist, I think, views everybody and everything as an extension of his/herself, even in what are supposed to be life's most intimate and supportive relationships--parent/child and husband/wife.  The "other" only exists as a support to, or extension of, the "self."  If narcissists are really insecure (and I'm not always sure I buy that argument), then the "other" is really proof of existence: I manipulate, therefore I am.

Of course your soon-to-be-ex wife wants to maintain contact, because she wants to remind herself of how successfully she manipulated you, and therefore reinforced her idea of "self."  If you really want to stick it to her, disengage.  I have found with N's in my own life that the screaming argument doesn't really bother them; they always fight and often win.  It's indifference that leaves them powerless.  Remove yourself from the realm of things that she can influence, and watch her do her best to manipulate you back into that circle.

I often think that's the answer to the question, "How could I have been so blind?"  You (or anyone) could have been so "blind" because a master manipulator put years of effort into blinding you!  She saw something in you that really fed her sense of self, and she did everything she could to control you so she could have what you gave her.  There probably were many moments--even months or years--when you seemed to be having a perfectly fine marriage (as long as you didn't actually challenge her).  Familiarity bred comfort, which in turn bred a sense of security.

I can't offer much concrete advice, but I am rooting for you.  My brother had an absolutely disastrous marriage to a pure narcissist.  He didn't know what hit him until 20 years and two children later.  While he's divorced now, he is very bitter, and I don't know if he will ever really trust people again.  Which is sad, because I remember him as a delightful young man--funny, handsome, intelligent, and decent.  He was my hero when I was a little girl.

You're on the road to something much, much better than my brother got out of life.  Please cultivate whatever it is in your character that let you start the journey.

I'm in the D.C. metro area, too.  Isn't that first blast of summer absolutely intolerable?  Every year at about this time, I resolve to move.  Anywhere.

best,
daylily

[Newby]

Brigid,
I agree that I have to detatch because she can never be trusted.

Mudpuppy, She had so much to be thankful for at her age but she was just never satisfied.

Hi daylily,
You are right about that first summer blast we received.  Hot and sticky.
Thank you for your comments.  In one way I am thankful I didn't have children with her.  In another way I feel that I may have missed out on having children.  My wife definately has some N traits ;but, I have found her to be classic BPD after researching things further.  I don't know which is worse.  I am reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and it is like reading my life.  It is just to bad.  She couldn't enjoy anything because she is in constant fear and always trying to create more security for herself.

[Anonymous]

Hi Newby,

In another way I feel that I may have missed out on having children.

Didn't you say you're in your late forties?
You've got plenty of time. You sound like you're in great shape. There's no reason a younger, normal (don't forget to make that a prerequisite) woman won't come along.
It may not feel like it now, with the wound still fresh, but the scar tissue will form and you'll get past her.
Things get better once you're out of the Twilight Zone you've been in.

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Hey Mia,

You're a trip.

Thanks, buddy.
You're pretty spiffy yourself.  

mud

[Newby]

Mudpup, I will turn 42 Saturday and I am very fit.  It is just that she left my life a shambles and I think it will take me about 2 years to get things straightened out to the point where I will have anything to offer a normal woman.

[Newby]

My wife is dislexic.  Does that help explain the backwards thinking?

[mudpuppy]

Hi Newby,

Well 42 is even better.
Your life is a shambles now, but this too shall pass.
I know a big dumb lummox of a guy who's 46, same as me, and married to an absolute angel who also happens to be a knockout, and who's only 35. And like I said, he's kind of a goon.
I don't want to sound like I am minimizing your pain of losing what you thought you had and how you've been betrayed.
But I'd like to point you toward the hope that this is an opportunity for you and a blessing in disguise. Thank God you found out now, instead of being strung along another twenty years.
You discovered your mistake and now you have a chance to start over fresh, a little older but a whole lot wiser. I suspect when the right gal comes along you will appreciate and treasure her more just because of the contrast with how this weed whacker treated you.

I have  not heard of a connection between BPD and dyslexia.
I don't think Bs have backwards thinking in the sense that dyslexics spell things backwards. They just have infantile thinking.
Maybe if she wrote backwards with color crayons there would be a connection.

mud

[Newby]

Mudpuppy,
Thanks for the encouragement and hope for a normal future. It sounds like you have a great wife.  How did you come to this forum?  Did you have a close encounter?

[Anonymous]

Newby,

Just to offer a little more encouragement.  I am a woman who is now 45, I did not have my child until I was almost 39.  When I was in my 20's I had every intention of having a child.  By the time I was in my 30's I had pretty much thought it was too late and I had missed out on that.  Then I met my husband at the age of 37, he was 38 and the rest is history.  There are a number of women in their 30's who haven't had children yet.  Also you might find and marry someone who has children to share with you.

LM