BPD or N

[Newby]

I am reading about Borderline personality disorder and it appears to be very similar to Narcissism.  What is the difference?  Narcissist's appear to be more gut-wrentchingly ruthless.

[bunny as guest]

Hello,

If you're the same poster as Duped, I read your story and your ex wife sounds classically borderline to me. That does not rule out narcissism. The main distinguishing features are,

primarily borderline: abandonment is main issue

primarily narcissistic: being humiliated is main issue

I'd check the site www.bpdcentral.com for more insight.

bunny

[Brigid]

Newby,

I am not that knowledgeable, but the psychologist who facilitates my divorce support group explained that Narcissism and Borderline are opposite ends of the continuum of personality traits, but do share some of the same characteristics.  I would agree with Bunny's description, but its probably a little more complicated than that.  I think that B's lack any ability to control how they relate to you and don't care at all how you relate to them.  N's tend to be more self-involved and care very much how you relate to them.  I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but its seems like what I have heard from my T and from the facilitator.

Brigid

[sleepyhead]

Hi Newby,
from what I've read, the main difference is that B's are suicidal/engage in self-destructive behaviour, an N might threaten to commit suicide, but that is just for attention. Another big difference is that N's have no empathy, B's are often overly empathetical. having said that, the conditions apparently often overlap... Confusing, huh? The site that bunny recommended is very good, hope it will help you clarify things.

[Newby]

I am still trying to sort through this to make sense of it.  I could never do anything to purposely hurt someone.  She has gone to great lengths to bring up very small things from early in our dating to justify what she has done.  She has written nasty letters to each of my family members telling them what they have done to her.  An example:  I won a special motorcycle racing series and was awarded at a presentation.  My brother wanted to take a picture of me with the trophy girls and my wife flipped on him and made a scene for disrepecting her.  The girls weren't as attractive as my wife and I told her that.  During the presentation, I couldn't avoid standing next to the ladies.  I made my brother appologize to her but we still fought about this on the 3hr. drive home.  She put this in the letter to his wife and encouraged her to leave my brother. This is just one example.  I took the blame for these things because I could see how she might view this as disrepectful; but, I could never be this jealous and would have been proud of her for the achievement.  She also would get upset with me for not taking her side and telling my family off when she fought with them for just disagreeing on some opinion.  I just stayed quiet and tried to keep her away from them so I could keep peace with her and my family.  I just couldn't yell at my family for no real reason when they are all good people that I have always had a good relationship with.  Her family was so dysfunctional that I feel she resented the closeness of our family. My family really welcomed her and wanted to have a relationship with her; but, she would always twist their good intentions into something bad and pick a fight.  It really saddened me.

[bunny]

I am still trying to sort through this to make sense of it.  I could never do anything to purposely hurt someone.  She has gone to great lengths to bring up very small things from early in our dating to justify what she has done.  She has written nasty letters to each of my family members telling them what they have done to her.

Here is the explanation in a nutshell. Some people are extremely unstable and their inner structure is as fragile as a house of cards. Your inner structure isn't like that: you're stable, you are aware of what you're doing and the reasons. If you can imagine being in a semi-dreamlike state all the time, where things are not what they seem, where everything is chaotic and confused, and you're being persecuted all the time by enemies who lie and pretend to like you (paranoia), this is what your ex is like. I know it seems impossible but that is what happens. Her cognition (thinking) is seriously distorted. And she can't think straight because her entire internal structure is this house of cards, or swiss cheese. Bottom line it's not solid and she is totally out of control.

Do not take her accusations or actions at face value. It's all a bunch of crap. Focus on stabilizing yourself -- because these people can drag normal people into their craziness -- get a good therapist to heal from her massively destructive influence, and you will be fine and able to love a normal woman in the future. You really will.

bunny

[Newby]

Bunny, Thank you for your insight.  I definately was very grounded and allowed myself to be dragged into the craziness.  Now it appears that I am the crazy one because my life is disheveled and she appears to have everything together.  I am beginning to think Scott Peck is right that this is actually Evil as this is all about lies and distortation which is the alleged trademark of the father of lies.  It is like the person has no conscience or soul.  I think she preyed on me because I was predictable.  Before meeting her, I had learned from past failures how important honesty is.  I was completely honest with her and she can not find one time in nine years where she could say she caught me in a little white lie.  She also knows that I won't retaliate against anyone and I believe she is going to try to use this virtue (weakness) to her advantage.

[Anonymous]

Now it appears that I am the crazy one because my life is disheveled and she appears to have everything together.

This is only temporary until you get your bearings again. She doesn't have everything together. She will always be miserable and create chaos wherever she goes. You may not be into retaliation but you aren't a martyr either. Don't let her take advantage of you. Protect yourself and don't surrender your own self-interest to look like a good guy. No more nice guy, okay? She will destroy you without hesitation if she perceives you want to look like a nice person. Be extremely stone-faced and firm. Honesty is a good idea with someone of equal honesty. With her, I would reveal nada and drop the honesty like a hot tire iron. I'm not saying to lie, I'm just saying not to reveal anything that isn't in your own interest.

bunny

[mum]

Bunny, you give some really good advice....now, if I could just figure out how to practice that....

I have a difficult time, still, deciding what will most likely be used against me and what I can relax about.  Since I am still embroiled in a legal battle with the exNidiot, it's a challenge not to be paranoid, but know also, that most, if not every, move I make can and will be twisted in a way to make me look "bad" and him look "good".  He has an attorney who is much like him....a real "shark". I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.  So it has been helpful to me to simply move forward, with my own good intention, take advice of my attorney (there's the "be careful" and not let on to everything part), and let the rest go.

So, I think I would add to your advice a caution to not get stuck worrying about what the ex is up to, or you could spend all your time in a dark place (that's most likely where the ex is) and lose sight of your goal (life without the ex's energy).

[Newby]

Mum & Bunny,

I will heed your advice.  Now that I realize she never cared for me and never can, I won't worry about her best interests before my own.  She was always saying that she was putting me first when in reality I was putting her first.  She said it was all about me because I would do something I wanted to do once a week.  Instead of always just doing what she wanted. This is where my guilt came in.  If I just would have given up my motorcycle the marriage would have worked.  I am trying to stay out of a legal battle because I know it can get real ugly and expensive.  The only problem is that she feels I don't deserve anything.  I hope you can get your legal mess straightened out before you make the lawyers rich.

[Anonymous]

So, I think I would add to your advice a caution to not get stuck worrying about what the ex is up to, or you could spend all your time in a dark place (that's most likely where the ex is) and lose sight of your goal (life without the ex's energy).

Here's how I look at it...I assume the ex is up to no good. It doesn't have to be deeply analyzed. They are destructive and I accept this about them. So I don't relax about anything. Nor do I obsess or worry about it. I simply assume that they will take advantage of any uncertain boundaries. So I am going to know what my boundaries are. And I'm going to always be thinking about what is in my interest. I stop thinking about their interests entirely. It's all business now.

bunny

[Newby]

Are the following normal N-traits: Before I left she would come home and for no reason start to yell at me and say she couldn't stand to come home and she my face.  She would then proceed to ask me repeatedly when I was leaving.  After I left she said that I abandoned her and  she didn't tell me to leave.  She said that she was asking me so she could prepare and I would leave at a time when it was convenient for both of us.  How can a spouse stay under those condistions?  Also, I left in late January and she sent me an e-mail on valentines day asking if I had forgotten it was V-day.  She said "like usual".  I never forgot Valentines Day.  I was just kicked out and we were separated!  Was I suppose to send her a dozen roses?

[Anonymous]

Those are classic borderline behaviors: "I Hate You - Don't Leave me." Don't second-guess your own normal behavior.  You're okay.

bunny

[Newby]

Bunny,
I guess it is a blessing that she appears to be borderline instead of N as it appears there is hope for healing with borderlines.  I also realize out of ingnorance that I made her borderline worse by not understanding how to properly respond to her needs.

[Anonymous]

Bunny,
I guess it is a blessing that she appears to be borderline instead of N as it appears there is hope for healing with borderlines.  I also realize out of ingnorance that I made her borderline worse by not understanding how to properly respond to her needs.

If you think she's going to get better, or that you made her worse by lack of understanding, you are mistaken. Save yourself, you can't help her.  

bunny