Father's Day 2005

[mum]

Wow, Dazza.  That's quite a coincidence....(but I don't really believe in coincidences...it's all very clear, actually).  
I think if you can follow the thread of things....you are finding your inner "child", your "parents" (or the ones you should have had) every time you put one little bit of help to others out there.  I'm impressed  by your generosity. You are a wonderful child.  Healthy parents would be proud of the person you have become.  It's hard to make up for "lack" of parents, but you are doing it for yourself.  

I know my daughter will make up for this "lack" of a father she has, and she will do it herself.  He is there, but emotionally distant from her.  He gives orders, but doesn't really love her in the way a father should.  He "loves" his son more, but his definition of love is so scewed (love=control) that my son will have some work to do as well, when he finally breaks free.

I see that it can be done, though, and you are really a good example.

Thanks for saying so, but I don't know if I always take the high road, really.  But I do always put my children above everything else....my ego, and clearly even my need to be rid of this man. (long story, but I've been trying to get physically away from him for a few years now).
I went into motherhood knowing full well that the job meant putting my children's needs first, but I also knew that's where the joy is.  That's all it is.

[Stormchild]

Hi Dazza

Here's another site that may be helpful. Please don't be put off by the extremely emotionally charged word in the URL - the site is about all kinds of abuse, not only the horrendous kind that is mentioned there.

This site describes the way in which any family member who comes to recognize the dysfunction is scapegoated and ostracized, as a whistleblower - just the same way that organizations ostracize and scapegoat whistleblowers who expose their internal corruption.

hope it helps. and welcome to the board!

http://incestabuse.about.com/cs/safetyplans1/a/Whistleblower.htm

[Anonymous]

Here is another article that was a resource from the site mudpuppy listed:

http://lynneforrest.com/html/the_faces_of_victim.html

LM

[Menow]

Hi Dazza and all,

Thanks for starting this thread, Dazza, and sharing your story here. I am pretty new myself and I have just started to bounce around and read some other threads. A little at a time.

Wow, I can really relate to all that you said. I actually about fell off my chair. Probably not unlike many others here, too. I had a completely N. family. It was never made logical sense to me that my siblings were N.'s too. I always questioned myself because of that.

Isn't it supposed to be that children got abused and then the children were the victims. Why weren't my siblings like me?! Sad, alone, scared, hurt, etc. No, they took the other route and followed in Mom and Dad's footsteps, little marching N's.

So I ALWAYS doubted myself and beat myself up for being SO different, which is EXACTLY what those bleeping N.'s wanted. Poking, prodding, humiliating me for just waking up in the morning. And yes, to this day stalking me to change my mind about how it was and what really happened. PLEASE! I didn't need to say a word... they HATED me. From the moment my foot touched the floor till my head hit the pillow they taunted me.

And what has been my nemesis my whole life... WHY DID THEY HATE ME SO MUCH?!?!?! The only mantra I said in my head over and over was, "I just want to be left alone today. Is that too much to ask!"   Obviously it was! As you guys said it so clearly...They hated me for being. Honest, true, caring! Imagine that! A human being who is honest, true and caring. kill her, kill her, kill her, threat, threat, threat!!! How dare those as*#^$&@#s!!!!!!!

Years ago it did click about why they hated me. But as I said, the sibling thing ALWAYS threw me for a loop. How and why would they be a part of the jeering too! That really hurt. And made me feel so WEIRD. So betrayed and belittled. No safe haven, no where to turn. Yuck! One little person surrounded by enemy troops, so much anger, rage, hate. I am really shocked any of us got out... And I know that some of us didn't. That is hard, so sad to think about.

This is quite a lightbulb moment for me to see the whole whistle blower thing so clearly laid out by you all, that it is has a label and there is actually documented information on it, I can't wait to go to these site's you all posted, (thanks Stormchild and Mudpup!!!!!!!!!). I LOVE this site and the feeling of being with kindred souls(quite different from childhood, YAY!!!!!)

GEEZ... it has been a long lonely road. And yes, I have had those therapists too!!! Thank goodness we had the self-trust to eventually run, pissed off!!!!  

Mudpud, I just have to say again. Your posts are just so smack on with what is real, true, and good. And you are hilarious!! I find myself laughing out loud and crying out loud at the same time, because you are so dead on and so certain about how WRONG and full of sh#% these N's are!!!! I love the idea of the two N's battling it out!!!!! They can all have each other and get off tearing at each other for lifetimes.

Keep going Dazza. You have added to greatly to my healing and my life by sharing your experience and insights!


Menow

[Dazza]

Thanks for sharing, Menow. I truly hope that the positivity and support you will find here will continue your healing process.

I am sure that your post rings so true for lots of us on this board.

The feeling of being hated by your sibs...was it a consistent feeling or did it vary? In other words, was it always You vs. Them?

I am curious to hear because in my family dynamic, alliances were always in flux. You never knew where you stood with anything. Promises were rarely kept, and the inter-action between us was so messed up.

For instance, one minute my father would tell me that my mother is loony and that he would get a divorce in a second (she would say the same to me). An hour later, they were both ganging up on me over something - a united front. Oh, I was about 8 when this behavior started.

Same thing happened w/ my sisters...I could never trust them and still don't.

I've come to learn that with N's you never know where you stand. It is like walking on a minefield without a map. One false me and BOOM!

Another thing that I've realized is that N's memories are very "selective."

Menow, do you think that your sibs would remember how they acted towards you? I wonder.

My mother told my ex-girlfriend (who she didn't approve of) of just a few months in a fit of rage that she hoped that her ovaries dried up and that she could never have kids or sex with me. Plus, she added a flurry of insults that I won't even go into here because they are just too terrible to mention.

A little over four years later when I began speaking to them again, I aksed my mother about why she said what she said. I had to ask because there was a point when I feared that I would always be remembered by my ex as the boyfriend with the crazy mother...but I have let that feeling go, because I had no control over my mother's actions.

My mother said she had no memory of what she said. Incredible!


 

[mudpuppy]

Hi Dazza,

I guess I never realized you were a guy before. Welcome, there aren't too many of us here.

Too right, they have selective memories. But I'm convinced its willfull.
They remember allright, they just pretend to forget the inconvenient stuff.

I think a lot of siblings act like Ns but really aren't; they're just imitating the behavior they think they needed to survive as kids. I think they're enmeshed and codependent and all that stuff, but I suspect, a lot of them, were they to be removed from the unhealthy system they're in, would show some signs of normalcy, unlike a real NPD.
Of course for the normal sibling it doesn't make much difference whether they're really crackers or just playing along to survive; they still treat us like dirt.

Menow,

You're too kind. Thanks for swelling my head up a little.

Oh, and incidentally the website I provided was originally provided by Stormy also, so you should really thank her for all of the websites.
Credit where it is due. She's a tremendous resource for this board.  

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Hi Dazza and welcome.

Sorry, I'm way late coming in on this post.  I have been a little lax lately.

On Father's Day I will think about my Dad who passed away two years ago.  He was a very good man.  We all miss him very much.

My children will visit with their N Dad on Father's Day.  I'm sure when they get older they will be in your shoes and will be avoiding him at all costs.  For now, they have to go.  

Mud and Mum,

Maybe you and Mia could get your exes all steamed up about who the biggest N is. Maybe start a grudge match.
You know like Godzilla versus Gamera. One behemoth jerk from the west coast; one colossal ass from the east, the ground trembling under their big cheesey feet. Grappling for supremacy they both fall (in slow motion of course) into the sea and sink to the bottom.    
Of course the problem with that is Godzilla never seems to croak.  

That is so funny.  Freakin' Godzilla never dies!  I guess it's Ok if my X N was Godzilla.  But please promise that I would at least be able to watch Godzilla get beat up pretty badly.  He needs a good a$$ whooping!

Thanks for the laugh.

Mia

[Menow]

Mudpup,
 
You are welcome for the kind words.

And I did credit and thank Stormchild along with you. Am I going crazy?!?!?!?!?

Just to clarify, you did point out a site while crediting stormchild. Then she referred to another site later on. I thanked both of you. Is that so wrong????

Sorry, I am a little hyper sensitive towards what you wrote, I felt a little chastised that I didn't do my gratitude perfectly. I got alot of that from my N family. Not perfect, get it right, do it over, not perfect, you should do it this way not that way..... and on and on and on.

Menow

[mudpuppy]

Hi Menow,

I'm sorry. I didn't mean for it to sound like chastisement at all.
I wasn't criticizing you in the slightest.

I just didn't want to get the credit for something that Stormy had provided and I had just piggy backed on.

Yikes, I'm especially sorry if I sounded like your N family.
I really didn't mean to. It wasn't really even directed at you. I just wanted to let others  know where the link came from.

I guess i should have been able to see your perspective a little better.
Sorry if I upset you. I have a tendency to put my foot in my mouth. Me and GFN have contests to see who is best at it.    

mudpup

[mum]

Hey, Menow: I think you can trust Mudpup.  He is usually very self-effacing (sp?) and not at all n ish.  I simply took his meaning as him not wanting to get too much credit, that's all. Hope you can see that, too.
As far as you going nuts....not a chance....unless we all are!!!

How's the weekend going? Hope it's lots of "chillin" and bad food items......

[mudpuppy]

Thanks mum,

You're a chump...errr, I meant champ, sorry.    

You know I'm just a-joshin' ya.

Have a good Saturday evening all, and congratulations on your 'quoting' success on the other thread, mum. Brigid gives much more succinct instructions than me.

mudpup

[Stormchild]

Well, since I did a Hellmark card for Mother's Day, I guess I should try to come up with one for Dear Old Dad.

Let's see...

Dear Dad, this day is just for you.
But then, you think the rest are, too.
So celebrate wholeheartedly,
But stay the he** away from me!

Not as good as the mother's day rhyme, but then my mom was the N, my dad the N-abler. So let's try another one.

Dear Dad, when I was very small,
You never helped me out at all.
You let my mother bully me;
Her meanness you refused to see.

Now you are turning old and gray
And wonder why I stay away.
You ought to ask why I would bother
To visit an unloving father.

There, that should just about cover it

[mum]

Brilliant and hilarious, as usual, Stormy!!!

[Dazza]

You are quite a poet! I can't stop laughing!!!

[Menow]

Mudpup,

Oh thank you. I really appreciate your acknowledgement of my feelings and your openness to see it from my perspective. And as I said, I am a bit hyper sensitive to anything that sounds like someone is angry at me for doing something wrong. I can see that you did not intend that at all. I think it is hard for me without the voice inflection and body language to read into words, especially with all the sh*& I/we have all been through. So thank you for clarifying what you intended, and caring about my feelings!  

Stormchild,
I LOVED your hellmark poems!!! Wow, you are good!!! And, if it's okay, I would love to dedicate the first one to my dad who was the N and the others to my Mom who was the N-abler. Actually though it may be the other way around, it is a tough call. Underneath my mom could have been the evil N disguised as a victimy N-abler so she would never get busted and my dad the victim taking on the role as the N. Either way you toss it, it's an ugly mess and they get each other.

Oh, and thank you for the website links you have provided in other posts.... WOW!

Menow