Truth

[Stormchild]

October, I had a thought.

Try contacting a fellow named Tim Field, who has a business called Success Unlimited. He counsels survivors of workplace bullying. He understands cptsd, and he is in the UK.

You wouldn't have to go into details, just ask him if he knows anyone who specializes in cptsd... he surely must, and they might be near you, or be able to refer you to someone nearby.

Let me see if I can find a link to his site.

Yep - here it is:

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/

I hope this helps... his site links to the Andrea Adams Trust which is also devoted to the issue of workplace bullying and cptsd. I know your cptsd has other origins but I think being retraumatized at work would make it perfectly legitimate for you to check out this option. At the very least, there should be some folks in this area who will have a clue about what you're feeling...

((((((((((October))))))))))

[Anonymous]

GFN, thanks for the love. Can't cope with the logic and the reasoning bit at present; like reading Chinese. But this place certainly wouldn't be the same without you.

I'm glad you felt "love" October (cyber love eh??   Isn't it cool???).
Hopefully you're feeling better and you will be able to cope with the much more logic and reasoning real soon (so I'm posting this now and you can re-read it later....if it doesn't compute now..but I think it might).    You are valued here, very much too, October.  I'm sure by many more people than just me.  

What I might have been better to say would have been something like:

"I see your vivid imagination and your potential to recreate your vision into something really good and positive for the future".

One of my favorite little childhood stories, that I read to my children many, many times (often at their request too) is called:

"The little engine that could".  Do you know that one?  Where the hill is soooo big--seems impossible to get up..... and the little engine decides to think he can make it up the hill and as he tries so hard to climb it, he keeps telling himself:  "I think I can!  I think I can!" and he finally gets to the top, by shear determination and ......by his own believing in himself??

I love that little story.  I think it says a lot.  It's not always easy to be like the little engine but it is possible....a real possibility.   My hope is that you will decide to believe you can October!   Because you can!!!  That's what I see!

October can!  She might be a little engine and she might not think she can right now, but she can change her mind about all of that, if she decides to, and tell herself:

"I think I can!  I think I can!" and work her way up that long, steep hill.
(I think you're trying really hard and are a bit discouraged right now--the darn hill is soo long and steep and seems endless!!).

Written by yrs trly in 1999. Still true today. I can hear GFN saying 'walk out of that d*** corner!!' as I post it.

That is soo cool   what you wrote!!  The angel turning stones into lovely flower petals!!  You feel trapped in the corner?  

I see you noticing that the corner has only 2 sides and I see you taking steps away from it, with your little angel pitching the flower petals on the floor, leading you in the right direction!!   I see your potential to notice that!

Yes October!!  Come out of that stinking corner!!  I think you can!  I think you can!!!      



Hey Bunny thanks!   I'm not really getting it though (as you can probably see from this post).

They can be reached other ways but not with questions and cognitive examples.

 

What other ways do you mean?

GFN

[Anonymous]

GFN,

What I mean is this...there is a time for asking people a bunch of questions to make them reflect and get curious about their own process. There is also a time not to do that. Not everyone is in the place of wanting to be asked questions. When someone is vulnerable and regressed, questions can feel extremely intrusive and even like an attack. In fact there were times I did not want to post about something because I thought you would do all this questioning and suggesting, which  frankly was going to make me feel much worse. And I KNOW your intentions would be good but that wouldn't really help me. So I was projecting onto October here. The way I would like to be reached when I'm vulnerable, regressed, and going in and out of adult cognition, is for someone to be gentle, nonjudgmental, not try to fix me, and not try to get me out of it. Just to hear me and let me know I'm not alone. Don't know if this makes any more sense or not.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Bunny:

I think what I hear you saying is that you think my questions are too many, timed inappropriately, not gentle enough and that you believe I am judging, trying to fix, not listening and that you feel more alone, when you read my posts, you feel intruded upon and attacked (which you projected onto October).  Also that my questions and suggestions make you feel much worse.
That you didn't post because of what you thought I would do....ask questions or make suggestions of you, in the past sometimes, when you felt vunerable etc.
That you believe my intentions would be good but that doesn't help.

I think of suggestions as the person trying to help me, such as you are suggesting,...... that I not make suggestions or ask questions...to/of you, when you feel vunerable because it would make you feel worse.  Also that other people might feel the same way, so you are suggesting I not do it.  I also think of suggestions as optional...that they can be taken or not taken, as desired.

I think of questions as the other person trying to understand, or......as a way for the person to offer an idea to another...for them to consider for themself.....an idea...without stating that that idea is..absolute or best...but by asking if they have thought of it or might think of it etc.

I have different boundaries/thoughts and feelings regarding questions and suggestions than you do I guess.  Not everyone is the same.  You feel your boundaries are invaded when I ask questions or make suggestions.  I get that.

It doesn't matter to you that my intentions are good.

Note:  I haven't asked any questions or made any suggestions here, so I must have learned something.

(((((((((Bunny))))))))

GFN

[Anonymous]

Hi Bunny:

I think what I hear you saying is that you think my questions are too many, timed inappropriately, not gentle enough and that you believe I am judging, trying to fix, not listening and that you feel more alone, when you read my posts, you feel intruded upon and attacked (which you projected onto October).  Also that my questions and suggestions make you feel much worse.

I have no idea whether you're judging or not. I just don't like the questions and suggestions when I'm in a vulnerable state. It's not helpful to me at that time. It's out of attunement. It's not a time when I want someone to try to help me, to try to make me think of things that they think I should consider. In fact, I have probably considered all of it, as my mind can simultaneously do that. I can certainly disregard your questions/advice, and not respond to your post. But I've had feelings of not even wanting to see it there. There is freedom of speech here so I won't post about myself when that's how I feel. It's my issue, and I have to make my decisions. You don't have to do anything.


bunny

[Anonymous]

I just don't like the questions and suggestions when I'm in a vulnerable state. It's not helpful to me at that time.

I remember posting to you re your "drama" thread.  One thing I remember you wrote something like:

I hate myself for being so curious about people (that might be worded incorrectly but that was the basic idea I think you had said).

You could be associating my questions a little that way.  It could be that you don't like this about yourself and therefore about me either.  I think I said something to the effect that your curiosity is a gift.  I stand by that statement, as my opinion, though it differs from yours.  That's ok.

I can certainly disregard your questions/advice, and not respond to your post. But I've had feelings of not even wanting to see it there.

It sounds like you're saying that you don't want me to post to you....any questions or suggestion..when you feel vunerable.

I wasn't aware that I had done that and I'll try to remember not to do that again.  My post to you in that thread must have made things worse.  I'm very sorry Bunny.

It's my issue, and I have to make my decisions. You don't have to do anything.

Maybe it's my issue?  Maybe you're right?  Maybe I ask too many questions and make too many suggestions?  Maybe I don't have to do anything but I would be wise to consider what you're saying?

I have to be honest.  It feels very critical.  That's ok, as you say, free speach and all but do you see the strong words you've used?

too many quesitons
judgemental
poor timing
not gentle (therefore what?)
trying to fix
not listening
intruding
attacking
makes people feel worse

I believe these are real thoughts and feelings for you Bunny and they are valid.   You have a right to feel as you do.  I'm not sure that it's fair or right to decide anyone else thinks/feels the same.  They might.  It might even be one of those power of suggestion things....where once said.....it happens.

I wish positive suggestions were taken that way more often and with the same lasting effect.  Sometimes they are too.  So that's good.

Anyhow Bunny, I don't know if you are feeling vunerable now and taking offense to my positive words to October or if I'm just irritating you by being alive.  

I'll try not to make suggestions to you or ask you questions when it seems like you're feeling vunerable because you have made it clear how that makes you feel and I don't want to make things worse for you.   I would rather you just know that I care and will do anything I can to help you feel better.

GFN

[Anonymous]

You could be associating my questions a little that way.  It could be that you don't like this about yourself and therefore about me either.  I think I said something to the effect that your curiosity is a gift.  I stand by that statement, as my opinion, though it differs from yours.  That's ok.

Your assumption is inaccurate. I don't think your questions show a lot of curiosity. They are more about trying to "get me to think about your suggestions" which is not in attunement to my mental state. Sometimes the last thing I want is a suggestion. I don't think this is unique to me but I'm only talking about myself.

It sounds like you're saying that you don't want me to post to you....any questions or suggestion..when you feel vunerable.

I'd prefer that you don't but you can do whatever you want.

I wasn't aware that I had done that and I'll try to remember not to do that again.  My post to you in that thread must have made things worse.  I'm very sorry Bunny.

Thank you , I appreciate that very much.

Maybe it's my issue?  Maybe you're right?  Maybe I ask too many questions and make too many suggestions?  Maybe I don't have to do anything but I would be wise to consider what you're saying?

Is this a rhetorical question.

I have to be honest.  It feels very critical.  That's ok, as you say, free speach and all but do you see the strong words you've used?

Yes I chose those words but not out of context as you listed them.

I don't care whether others feel the same way I do. I'm talking about myself. If you would kindly abstain from advice/suggestions it would make it easier for me to post. But you don't have to. There isn't censorship here and it's up to me to decide how to handle my own privacy or vulnerability issues.

I appreciate your consideration.

bunny

[d'smom]

Hi october and all. Im so sorry things are going that way for you october..... stupid therapist....... im so sorry to hear all that is happening....... glad to hear your getting cleaning done :} i was glad to hear about your angel.  I have an angel too, i saw her first when i was about 3.  used to be sooo scared of the dark and would lie there kind of frozen and not be able to sleep at all. (still not sure why). either way one night i saw this lady all in white in my room. she bent down over my bed and she had some kind of tray with some kind of food or treats or something that was meant to nourish and comfort me.

I saw her a couple more times as a child and now i know shes always around.. but doesnt show herself because she knows my nerves cant take it! but, I love it that i know shes there.

either way - dont want to hijack this thread, but ive been watching the exchange between bunny & gfn and hope to offer a viewpoint in the middle? i think its a good point that is kind of getting off track but ive noticed it also in other posts, and it bears mentioning.... if im out of line, just ignore it please, its just an opinion.


Bunny said:

What I mean is this...there is a time for asking people a bunch of questions to make them reflect and get curious about their own process. There is also a time not to do that. Not everyone is in the place of wanting to be asked questions. When someone is vulnerable and regressed, questions can feel extremely intrusive and even like an attack.

then GFN said:

Maybe it's my issue? Maybe you're right? Maybe I ask too many questions and make too many suggestions? Maybe I don't have to do anything but I would be wise to consider what you're saying?

this kind of dissolved into some unclarity but i think theres a middle ground....... this is my opinion now.. but IN MY OPINION. I think whats trying to be expressed is not that it is -never- ok to ask questions or be cognitive ever.... i think the point is that its important to be very sensitive to what people need, that diferent people need different things at different times. sometimes people want to be asked questions, sometimes questions are less helpful beuase the person is just too vulnerable right then.

sometimes a cognitive approach is what a person needs and sometimes emotional suport is all they can handle. it depends on where they are right then.

i have thought this before in other threads and i think the bottom line is to be sensitive to where a particular pereson is emotionally and whether or not a cognitive or emotional approach (or some other approach) is better in that particular situation...........

its very possible to be so vulnerable that really all you can stand is just someone holding your hand for a bit. then other times you are ready to hear and think about some questions. does that come down in the middle? sorry for hijacking october.
d's mom

[Anonymous]

To GFN,

I've been reading the exchanges here. I would like that you should keep posting your way. I'm here learning about control issues, and when I read someone asking you to change your style to suit them and suggesting to you how to post to them, I sense serious control and other issues. It's good for people to learn to walk on by here when they're pricked. Helpful to understand  that it's not always necessary to respond to others or try to control how others communicate. I find a lot of useful stuff in your posts that really helps me unravel some of my issues. Some questions that you asked someone here penetrated me and got me thinking about my stuff more clearly. If you have to walk on eggshells and change your whole style and the way you post, just to suit one other person then I thing that's a crying shame. Respect others for sure, but your questions and suggestions style seems mighty valid here. Gets the brain going. We've all got painful issues, and we are not all going to communicate perfectly with each, so tolerance and sometimes walking on by is a big key to working collboratively through things. We shouldn't be trying to change each other to suit ourselves so that we don't have to change. I like your style GFN. I'd hate to think that you are made to feel you can't post openly and in your way to any topic you have insight or interest on.

Keep up the good work GFN  

[Anonymous]

If you think I have SERIOUS control issues maybe you can walk on by instead of criticizing me in the guise of praising GFN. You're doing no one a favor here.

d's mom. Thank you for your post, you said it better than I did.

GFN, do whatever you want, I am just stating feelings.


bunny

[Anonymous]

I'm no longer posting to this thread. Carry on.

bunny

[Plucky Guest2]

I'm no longer posting to this thread. Carry on.

bunny

Oh.  This is a pity.  Please don't let this happen you two.  You two are of the most helpful to me.  It's like seeing my two best friends fight.

How about when bunny doesn't want advice. she says in her post, "I really don't want any advice as I feel like I just want hugs and the like.  I'll ask for advice later."  

Would this work?  Come on you guys.

Plucky Guest2

[Anonymous]

sometimes a cognitive approach is what a person needs and sometimes emotional suport is all they can handle. it depends on where they are right then.

i have thought this before in other threads and i think the bottom line is to be sensitive to where a particular pereson is emotionally and whether or not a cognitive or emotional approach (or some other approach) is better in that particular situation...........

Respectfully, may I disagree.........    slightly.

I think if you are a therapist or counsellor or psyche or moderator here, then it would be okay to have these expectations put upon you. But most of us aren't. Those of us here who are simply trying to deal with our own s..t don't have this level or understanding or responsibility, or perhaps not even the time to unravel what the other person's needs are. And in the end they are not our responsibility. Personally, I need the freedom to talk, ask, enquire, and try to understand a whole range of stuff I read here, to help me with my issues - firstly.

GFN does that very well. IMO. And it just so happens that it has helped me a lot. That is my point. The fact that some questions asked here or offers of suggestions here might, that unfortunately might touch on tender spots, make someone squirm is really their problem to deal with at thee nd of the day. And possibly even why that happens may be a good thing for the person to explore.

Just some ideas Guest

[d'smom]

sometimes a cognitive approach is what a person needs and sometimes emotional suport is all they can handle. it depends on where they are right then.

Respectfully, may I disagree.........    slightly.

I think if you are a therapist or counsellor or psyche or moderator here, then it would be okay to have these expectations put upon you. But most of us aren't. Those of us here who are simply trying to deal with our own s..t don't have this level or understanding or responsibility, or perhaps not even the time to unravel what the other person's needs are.

hi guest,

im all for free speech and would never tell anyone what to do or how to be....  :} im glad you shared your view but a lot of what you said, strikes me kind of strange..

yes we dont have 'training' but..... you dont have time to unravel other peoples needs?  isnt this at least partially about other peoples needs? isnt this at least partially a support group? are you saying you want to gain information at the expense of other people, particularly those people who are incredibly vulnerable? that sounds kind of strange to me.  it doesnt take special training, to learn to be a more sensitive friend....

Personally, I need the freedom to talk, ask, enquire, and try to understand a whole range of stuff I read here, to help me with my issues - firstly.

I truly think that you are projecting here and reading into what has been said. someone asking that their wishes be respected in a support context is a totally valid thing to do, imo. if you see someone who is stating their preferences for communication, as invalidating you in some way, then I -personally- think you are having unclear boundaries. thats -only- my opinion.

GFN does that very well. IMO. And it just so happens that it has helped me a lot. That is my point.

im sure she could easily be getting peeved that all these people are discussing her behind her back so much! (sorry gfn!!!!) but, I think that she would know that id be the first to say i'm a huge fan of hers and she has helped me with all kinds of hugely important things. id be the first one to support her and say that. I also value her enough and trust her enough and respect her enough (again sorry to speak behind your back gfn) that I believe she is a big girl and can handle someone asking her for what they need.

that is a part of communication too, which as you say we are all learning to do.

The fact that some questions asked here or offers of suggestions here might, that unfortunately might touch on tender spots, make someone squirm is really their problem to deal with at thee nd of the day. And possibly even why that happens may be a good thing for the person to explore.

in normal situations, that could be true.  when someone is dissociated, suicidal, or dealing with self-harm, it doesnt take an advanced degree to realise you are more careful with people like that... just some sensitivity. and if you -dont- know that, and they try to tell you, then a sensitive, supportive friend LISTENS.  thats not censoring yourself, thats respecting someone else.

we could ask them a lot of wonderful intelligent questions and learn a ton about ourselves but if that person goes off and kills themselves becuase we failed to be sensitive to their needs, what has really been accomplished.......??....

for the most part, it is up to the individual to set their own boundaries and handle thier own triggers. in the case of extremely vulnerable people, why wouldnt they have the right to request greater sensitivity. they dont have the power to force anyone to do anything. but they do have the power to say what they need and want. why not?

ok gfn, I will not discuss you behind your back anymore. you know im a great fan.

so, those are some other thoughts. still not sure where you are coming from but I felt you wanted a reply.
d's mom

[October]

When someone is vulnerable and regressed, questions can feel extremely intrusive and even like an attack.
bunny

This is true for me.

Thanks, Bunny.