Author Topic: What now?  (Read 4176 times)

longtire

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What now?
« on: June 28, 2005, 11:58:48 PM »
Well, it has been a while since I really posted here.  I've kept up with the threads (not always easy! :)) and I've replied to a few threads where they really got my attention. :!:  I feel strange (tough time describing it) and I've been waiting to figure it out before I posted here.  I sort of realized today that I'm a lot more likely to figure it out by posting here than trying to do it all on my own. :?

A brief recap for all the new folks (glad you're here :)):  I moved out about 2 months ago from my wife of 17 years.  I have known something was very wrong in our relationship almost since the beginning, but it is only recently that I figured out that she seems to have Borderline PD (high-functioning) and that I am very Co-Dependent (staying 17 unhappy years...).  We have a 16YO daughter.  That's probably too brief, but feel free to ask questions. :P

I am so much happier and more peaceful since I left that I can't tell you.  My original therapist told me that one day life would be sweeter than I could imagine.  Well, it has finally happened!  I wake up thankful for every single day.  I have joy in just being alive.  I feel like I can actually do all the things that I've been wanting to do for so long, but have put off by"working on the relationship."  I did realize today that this is part of what has kept me from posting here.  I feel a sort of survivors guilt for having things going well in my life.  I feel guilty for posting this here, like it's bragging, even though I fully realize that I wouldn't BE at this wonderful point if it weren't for others here who posted about how good life could be.   I am also aware of all the hard work I had to do to be able to take these steps and make these choices.  My brain and my heart are not always in agreement about these things until they've had time to work it out. :)

It would take a miracle for both my wife AND myself to stay together at this point.  I have not had any desire to "get back tegether" or anything like that at all.  There have been a couple of times when I saw her driving around town and was tempted for a (very!) brief moment to follow her and find out more about what she was doing.  I was able to squash that right away and recognize my coey side kicking in.  My wife is the nicest to me now than she has been since we got married.  I have to admit that I'm not looking forward to what I expect from her when I go forward with the divorce. :(

I am taking my time and working through the issues that come up for me around the separation.  There are just some things that don't come up until you get close enough to stare them in the face, you know.  I am seeing a counsellor now who is really helping me to work through issues and is validating and supportive while still pushing me to grow.

I realized that one of the other reasons that I have been putting off posting here is that I just have too much stuff rattling around my brain to post a single topic thread and then stick to that topic.  I'm not sure that my previous "blog" posting is the most satisfying way to do it either, but this is starting to look like that as well.  Oh well, I just have too many topics going on to pick one.  Feel free to respond to some, all, or none of my points. :D Just getting them off my chest helps tremendously.

The one down side to what is going on right now is that my daughter seems more distant.  She tells me that everything is OK when I ask, but doesn't come around very often and seems to "forget" more that usual (she is a teen) to keep plans with me.  I am trying not to push, but I am disappointed.  I don't want to put too much pressure on her right now and am hoping that my perseverance will pay off in the end.  I have a couple of pieces of furniture coming (that she picked out) to finish my daughter's room here at my place.  She still hasn't spent the night even though the bed has been here for a month now.  I haven't pushed it.  I'm really not sure how to let my daughter know that I want to spend more time with her without putting extra pressure on her.

My D has asked to go see the therapist my wife is seeing.  I'm not too thrilled about that.  Yes, that is the same therapist who (in my opinion) blew the couples therapy between my wife and I.  I'm not saying it would have worked out otherwise, but it could have been handled much better.  I had sent my D a couple of lists of other therapists previously and talked with her about it, but I'm not sure what happened there.  I am glad to have my D talk to someone and be able to get help with a difficult situation.  I just hope that this T will be more objective with her than she was with my wife and I.  All this with my D makes my stomach churn some, but even this can't dampen the fact that life is good these days.  I guess I'm giving myself a hard time too because I'm telling myself that this situation is nothing compared to what others here have written about here.  Yuck.  I'm so tired having to beat off all the nasty voices that whisper lies in my ear. :evil:  It is bad enough for me right now, and I'm grateful it isn't worse.

I guess the other piece of feeling strange is that I'm not really sure what to "do" right now.  I keep busy working on my "To Do" list and have gotten a lot done that way.  But, what do I DO with the rest of my life?  I know, I 'll probably figure that out one of these days.  I've just never been patient being "in between."  I did take a day trip to the city we lived in about 10 years ago.  I hadn't been back in a long time.  I drove by where we used to live, where I worked, restaurants I ate at, places I went, etc., etc.  I was surprised, but I felt really sad, while at the same time like I was getting some pieces of *me* back.  Has anyone else experienced something like this when visiting places from the past?

From looking over this post, I realize that the reason I probably feel confused about my feelings so often is that I have so many different feelings about different things going on all at the same time.  It has its pluses and I associate it with being sensitive and intuitive, but it is also hard to deal with sometimes.  I wonder if that will change one day when I have worked out a lot more stuff?  Oh well, I'll choose to look on the bright side now and see that there is probably something in here that almost everyone can reply to.  It feels like I am really back after writing all this.  I'm glad. :)

P.S.  I'm glad I'm learning how to be brief. :roll:
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Plucky

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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2005, 12:22:53 AM »
Hello longtire,
thank you for writing all about your experience.  do not feel you are bragging.  (You ought to brag, however.)  In any case, telling your story inspires me and others that there is life after an N relationship.  You sound wonderful.

I do not have teens (so feelfree to disregard this advice), but I do know that the best way to not get them to do something is to push.  Make sure she knows she is welcome and has a safe place.  Keep the communication going.  She might be getting pushed from her mom and you don't want to get a tug of war going.

Give yourself a break about getting the rest of your life planned already.  Is that your dad talking?    Now you can finally smell the flowers.  Relax and heal.

Thanks for all your advice in the past.  You have been helpful to me and I'm glad you're back.
Plucky (formerly Guest2)

Brigid

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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2005, 01:01:33 AM »
Hey Longtire,
Glad to hear things are going so well.  You deserve all the happiness you are feeling right now.  I can so relate to your dilemma of what to do with the rest of your life.  I feel daily like I'm swirling around the drain, trying to find purpose and goals and happiness again.  My main goal is to find peace and tranquility, but I fear that is a long way off.

I think you are handling the situation with your daughter the best that you can.  Remember that you have done nothing wrong and she will eventually sort all that out and be more comfortable spending time at your place.  Stay involved in her life in whatever way possible without being intrusive and just let her know that you are there for her and will love her always.  16-year-old girls are difficult under the best of circumstances and she has more to deal with now, so give her the space to do that and she will eventually come around.

Keep the faith.

Brigid

Stormchild

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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2005, 08:16:30 AM »
I've PM'd you, longtire.

Portia

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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2005, 09:05:50 AM »
Hi Longtire, good to see you again :D

I don’t have much to say other than those tacky old Lennon words about life being what happens to you while you’re making plans. Was it you who said I want to be a life? No that was Nic 8)  I think. I liked it. Be a life, not live a life.

About your D. I'm musing.....Is there sleeping room for a friend to visit too? Can her visits start as a friends sleep-over place where Dad happens to live too? That sounds awful :? . But at 16 I was pretty independent and wouldn’t want to get too close to my Dad, it was about moving away from, not closer to. But then that was me!

Can it be her alternative place of her own, somewhere just for her and her friends, rather than be somewhere where she ‘has to’ interact with you? This is all from my perspective and I’m a commitment/intimacy-phobe, so. Maybe, an idea: you invite her to bring a friend over for a room-warming when you’re away?? (If you go away). You could fill the fridge with yummy stuff and leave them to a girl’s night in. I like the sound of that! :D

As ever, keep posting Longtire (longer or briefer....who's noticing?)

<stamps on longtire's nasty voices, scrapes yukky debris off shoe>

Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2005, 09:06:25 AM »
Hiya Longtire:

Glad to hear you say that you feel so much better now.  You sound more peaceful and comfortable.  That is soo good to hear! :D

Quote
I'm really not sure how to let my daughter know that I want to spend more time with her without putting extra pressure on her.


I wonder if you could just say that?

"I'm not really sure how to let you know this, so I'm just going to say it.  I would love to spend more time with you because I love you and I miss you, but I know you're a busy young lady, and I don't want to put any extra pressure on you."

Maybe this would help to begin a discussion?

Re the T:  I wonder if it might help to explain to her the way you felt about the T being not objective and letting her know that that's why you gave her the list of T's,  because you're really not sure that this T is the very best, and that you want the very best for her?  (Someone who will not take sides with either parent, but support her??).

Re getting on with your life:  Hey Long....it's the same but a new game.  One tiny little step at a time, when you're ready.  Maybe join a group or start some activity that you might enjoy...when you feel ready to do that?
Especially if you start to feel lonely.  That might be an indicator that it's time to get out there, have some fun, make some new friends, give yourself stuff to look forward to?   There's no rush right?

Do you feel as if you have fully mourned/grieved the loss of your relationship with your wife?

Just so glad you are doing so well, Long!  Keep going!  You are a great inspiration!!

GFN

Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2005, 09:27:36 AM »
longtire,

Your happiness is what we want. If you describe it, it makes US happy and helps US. We aren't all about needless suffering.  :)

Your daughter- I concur with what has been said. There are many reasons for her to hesitate spending time with you, none of which are about you as a father. One thing I'd caution is against making her feel "needed" by Dad to assuage his guilt, loneliness, sadness or confusion. If you ever think you might be doing this, take a step back. She will return to you when she can. The father-daughter bond isn't that easily broken and it's still there.

What to do with the rest of your life: Live it one day at a time. It's a journey with a lot of unknown surprises (mostly good) in it. Just enjoy the ride as you're doing.

Bravo longtire!

bunny

mum

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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2005, 12:59:10 PM »
Hey, Longtire. Glad to hear you have found some peace.
 
I know it's hard to be patient, but have some faith. You don't have to figure it all out.  Actually, you never do.  Trust that if you keep acting based on your loving intention (which you obviously have) that life will unfold as it should, and joy will be yours.

We have sooo little control in this life, especially as parents. The most unhappy people I know (my ex N comes to mind) are embroiled in this horribly futile attempt to control things....no wonder they are so unhappy.

Let your emotions come and go. Observe them, as you are, with fascination. Remember you don't need to always act.

It is normal for a teenage girl to identify with her mother.  It is what she must do, from what I have heard, to become autonomous, to change the relationship with her father to become a healty and independant adult woman. (all that Eiodopal (sp?) stuff I hear). She is pulling away from her mother as well, but in a different way.

Personally, I have yet to see where children of divorced parents benefit from the back and forth from home to home.  It isn't something adults usually feel comfortable doing, and yet we expect children to be split down the middle quite easily. The most well adjusted "divorced" kids I know, have a "place" at one home but everyone involved considers the primary home to be home, and no one's ego is attached to this ficticious "shared" child philosophy, and no one "counts" the number of times visitation occurs at the non custodial home and uses those numbers to make a legal stance. Unfortunately this is what most non custodial parents DO (there is even software for "tracking" this to use in court ...so sad a child is reduced to numbers).
All in all, you are doing the right thing by your daughter, IMO.  But don't talk to those "father's rights acivists....they will tell you to buy the software and keep records and go to court and "fight fight fight" for your "right" to see your child/possession.  You are seeing your daughter as a person, and nothing could be more important in the long run.
It is the right thing, IMO, to let your almost adult daughter set the stage for her own visitation.

I agree with GFN's first suggestion to simply tell your daughter your feelings about missing her but also letting her call the shots...without attachment to the outcome. No kid wants to feel like some prize being fought over, especially a teenager.

You are doing a good job keeping your ego out of this.  She is likely to want some stability and I wouldn't put so much stock in her having the same T as her mother.  Let it go.  Do you really need to worry about that?

Your daughter hasn't stopped loving you. If you push (as others have said) or start requesting that she take care of you emotionally (parentifying) then you will have a sad child on your hands.

Let go of control or of having anything figured out. You don't have it, none of us do. Stick with that joy and love in your heart. Relax about the probability of her mom pushing and trying to control (the T is most likely her idea....but let it go).  Mom will reap what she sows. Just make sure your daughter knows how much you love her.  Keep the requests for visits going without your own emotions controlling the conversation.  You'll be ok.

AS far as your life.....well, this IS your life.  It is not some goal that's coming and then you'll have the "life". I know this because I remind myself everyday.  I don't live with the man I am about to marry, and most likely won't for a bit longer (even after marriage).  My goal is to move there, but in the meantime, this is my life.  When I focus on the fact that my goal in moving and being with him and my family is not realized just yet, and get pretty down.  But either way, what is going on NOW, IS my life.  So I focus on what is wonderful about it right now...and the fact that I am on the road to something else wonderful.  How it will happen isn't totally figured out yet.  But I have FAITH that all will be well.

That feeling of joy you have? Stay focused on that. That's all you need to do.  Everything else will come tumbling into your lap. Decisions will need to be made by you, but all in due time. When you need to take action, you will. Otherwise, enjoy your life as you found you can.

longtire

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What now?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2005, 03:36:52 PM »
Thanks for replying everyone!  I was worried after I posted that I just sounded whiny or overly sensitive or just didn't make any sense.  Those are all crap messages that I've gotten from other people and haven't gotten rid of yet.  I will listen to myself, not messages from others.  I will listen to myself....

Since I moved out I've been trying to "solve" these new issues all by myself.  Trying to handle everything by myself comes from messages from my parents while I was growing up.  I have been missing the whole point, anyway!  Of course I have a whole new set of issues to work on that I don't understand yet.  That was the whole point of taking a step forward in my life!!!!  I have left many of those old issues behind.  How great that my biggest issue today is how to have a better relationship with my daughter rather than how to avoid a worse relationship with my wife!  How great that my issues are to figure out how to live a great life instead of trying to figure out how to survive a crappy one!  I am blessed!  :D :D :D

I can't wait to finally shed the expectations that people around me will try to drag me down if something good happens to me, or just not care at all like my parents when I was growing up.  People here act better and deserve better and I will work on trusting that.

As for my daughter, I am trying to avoid pushing her since I expect that her mother already is pushing her.  I did explain to her about the therapists and why I would feel better if she chose someone neutral.  But, I also left the choice up to her.  She is seeing the T today, so I'l ask how it went the next time I see her.  Here again, I need to remember to trust her and our relationship.  I think that trust has been off the table with my wife for so long that I forget it is a real, positive option with healthy people, not just another opportunity for me to be hurt.  Portia, I like your idea of letting her have a friend sleepover without me there for a first time.  Something to help her ease into it.  And GFN, I realized after I wrote it that I just need to tell my daughter that I miss her and don't want to put more pressure on her.  The last thing I want to do is have her feel like she needs to "take care of me."  I was a parentified kid and do NOT want to pass that on.  I have told her many times that it is my job to take care of her, not the other way around.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Plucky

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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2005, 04:43:51 PM »
Quote
I like your idea of letting her have a friend sleepover without me there for a first time.

Hi Longtire,
the only bad thing is could your ex say she was unsupervised?   Could anything bad happen, like some other friend comes over with drink or drugs or some uninvited boys get wind of it?
Can you just have the sleepover and be on the premises but inobtrusive?
Worrywart
Plucky

OR

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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2005, 08:57:11 PM »
Hey Longtire, I was wondering where you've been.

You sound great, maybe a little sad. We both have had our share of sadness over the past zillion years being married to the Difficult people in our lives. I know if I still lived in CA and had to look at places of my past it would conjure up the feelings you speak of.  

My D and I are getting ready to drive for the 4th, 6 hrs away to Kansas. My father and twin brother and other faimly live there. I have never met my brothers kids, it will be great fun to see everyone.

I Love my Dad so much and your daughter will love you more and more as time moves on. My parents divorced years ago after I was married.
Time will heal, I will pray for you to reach for a happy heart about your family.

She may have believed so much that life with both parents, were the only way of life. She must  rethink her life too, how to be loyal and communicate to both of you.
I know it will work out for her, keeping open communication may help you both.
Remember  to press past the pain from seeking others happy approvals.
You are a new person with the time now to put happy thoughts in your head. Do you have friends that can take you out to keep your mind busy?


I started our D in therapy with a clinic here in TX. The founder Paul Meiyer, has written many books on all types of Personality Disorders.
Her first visit went well, she is looking forward to her return visit next week. I know she must be torn about the divorce, having a 3rd party to talk about how to communicate with her dad is important.
He continues to be his N self,  saying hurtful things to me and who knows what he tells her.

I have to leave to pick her up from youth group, take care .......OR

miaxo

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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2005, 09:52:59 PM »
Hi Longtire

Quote
The one down side to what is going on right now is that my daughter seems more distant. She tells me that everything is OK when I ask, but doesn't come around very often and seems to "forget" more that usual (she is a teen) to keep plans with me. I am trying not to push, but I am disappointed.


Try not to beat yourself up over this one.  She's a teen and it's normal for all teens to distance themselves from their parents.  My husband is going through a similar situation with his teenage daughter.  She would rather spend time with her friends and boyfriend than hang out with dear old Dad.   He phones her often and IM's her quite a bit.  Also, he makes a lot of dinner dates with her and during that time they talk quite a bit.  She hasn't spent the night here in over a year and I know my husband feels hurt at times.  I remind him that it is normal and that he would be worried if she was a teen and was constantly hanging around Dad and didn't have any friends.  Know what I mean?

You sound like a good caring Dad.  That was so sweet of you to establish a special space for your daughter in your home and to buy her furniture.  I'm sure it's clear to her that you love her and care about her deeply.

Hang in there.

Mia

longtire

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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2005, 12:35:32 PM »
Thanks for the replies everyone.  It really helps to get some feedback from the women here to see that my relationship with my D is strained right now, but will work out in the end and that she needs this time as a tenn to breakaway and find her own life.  I don't want her to feel like she needs to "take care of" me or to feel guilt or pressure.  I will continue to let her know that I love her and be there for her and trust in our relationship.

I think in a way that my relationship with my D was symbolically standing for my relationship with other people in general.  On the one hand that was giving the current distance undue weight, so recognizing that lets me not get so uptight about it.  On the other hand, I have been around people who are not reliable and trustworthy all my life, so I still have to consciously remind myself that trust is a real option with most people.  I find it harder to remember to trust than to actually trust once I remember.  Of course, I am much more aware now of how deeply to open up and trust with different people based on my experience with them.

Another reason I wasn't posting for a while was that I was wanting to avoid dealing with my issues for fear of feeling overwhelmed and sliding back into depression or numbness.  I have spent so much of my life in those states that I expect that is my natural state.  I expect that without expending huge amounts of energy I will slip back into that pit.  I am starting to remember that is no longer the case.  I was able to make a difficult major change in my life and things are good now.  Without something bad happening or my own worrying, I keep coming back to being happy!  Now, it takes something to keep me from being happy, not a herculean effort to try to avoid being miserable.  When I remember this I can open myself to unpleasant feelings and welcome them in.  Yesterday I was feeling angry and defensive.  I just made more room and welcomed it in and told myself that I had every reason to feel that way.  It evaporated in no time.  This is such a change in perspective for me it is mind boggling.

Right now I have these two areas of work.  Remembering to trust people and believeing it will be alright and remembering that I am naturally happy now and I no longer have to be afraid of falling back into that old pit.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Plucky

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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2005, 12:59:45 PM »
Quote
Right now I have these two areas of work. Remembering to trust people and believeing it will be alright and remembering that I am naturally happy now and I no longer have to be afraid of falling back into that old pit.
_________________
longtire

Hi longtire,
thank you for sharing your thoughts.  You are like the first one to conquer Mt. Everest to me.  I am at the foot of a tall mountain, wondering if I can scale it or whether I should just set up camp right here.  Thanks for showing the way.  You may not feel that you have arrived where you are going. but you have made great strides and are an inspiration to others.
Plucky

daylily

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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2005, 04:18:03 PM »
Quote from: longtire
I don't want her to feel like she needs to "take care of" me or to feel guilt or pressure.  I will continue to let her know that I love her and be there for her and trust in our relationship.


I just wanted to point out that sometimes we test people by pulling away, hoping that they will come after us.  It may be that your daughter is looking at how you pulled away from your wife and wondering where the "breaking point" is before that happens with her.  I know there's a great deal more to it than that, but in the me-centric world of teenagers, she's probably worried about how much you are willing to give her.

So while I agree that you should give her space, I also feel that you should continue to make specific dates with her, pull her (gently) towards you.  That's not at all the same thing as asking her to take care of you; it's letting her know very concretely that you will not allow her to pull out of your relationship.

Quote
Another reason I wasn't posting for a while was that I was wanting to avoid dealing with my issues for fear of feeling overwhelmed and sliding back into depression or numbness.  I have spent so much of my life in those states that I expect that is my natural state.


But you got out, and having gotten out, I doubt you will ever slip back in.  

Did you ever know that you're my hero?   :lol:

best,
daylily