Author Topic: Attacked for not being hysterical  (Read 3740 times)

October

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Attacked for not being hysterical
« on: July 08, 2005, 01:50:16 PM »
I post intermittently on another - just general - board.  I went there a couple of days ago, when this one was down, just for somewhere to go.

Yesterday, not having words of my own, I posted there the poem by John Donne.  At the same time everyone else on the thread was posting who was in London, and where they were, and how they felt when they found loved ones were safe.  I couldn't do that kind of thing in public even if I had friends or loved ones there; it was a rather tasteless parading of 'how close did I come to being bereaved'.  Bizarre.

In response I have had several messages which I can only describe as vitriolic, calling me crass, unfeeling, arrogant; you name it.

 I have just seen another one, and it is so upsetting;

Thank you Mr S for such a reasoned and supportive response.
  I had no intention of parading my emotions on a message board, but couldn't help myself when I saw 'October's' messages last night.
I was actually going to post an apology to her today for reacting the way I did, but I see that would be completely wasted on someone with such insensitivity and glib arrogance.
  It's probably best if I don't respond to the more recent posts, but thank you again for the reply you gave here.
  Much appreciated.


The anger that people are feeling is for some reason being targetted towards me, and I am not sure why this happens.  I explained why I posted what I did, and what it means to me, but it has made no difference whatever.

Which is just to say, some people in Britain are not responding to this situation with stoicism and resilience.  Some are conducting witchhunts.  Needless to say, I have reported the above post for its personal attack, but I am left reeling.

Why am I magnet to reactions like this?  Just because I don't join in the group hysteria???
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 01:55:53 PM by October »

write

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2005, 02:03:19 PM »
which poem, the bell tolls one?

I think online confusions are pretty common, I've given up a few message boards because of being attacked or watching someone else repeatedly be shot down.

I want to say don't take it personally but I know if you're anything like me each setback has you reeling: what's wrong with me, why does this keep happening etc.


At least here we all feel able to say exactly what's on our minds to say....take care October, don't worry too much about the other board. Things like the terrorism make people say strange things. My neighbour came over last night to give me a hug and tell me he wants to 'go kick their m*ther****ing ass', clearly forgetting- I'm a pacifist...

October

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2005, 02:23:07 PM »
which poem, the bell tolls one?

I want to say don't take it personally but I know if you're anything like me each setback has you reeling: what's wrong with me, why does this keep happening etc.



Yes.  That's the one.  Written by John Donne, who was Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, London, and one of our finest poets. 

'What is wrong with me' is the point, though.  Even something seemingly innocuous, where we were all saying the same thing, but in our own way; somehow my way is regarded as arrogant or unfeeling.  I am not sure why.

Everyone was saying stuff like, my daughter was only 20 minutes away, or my husband was late getting home, or whatever.  I didn't criticise them for saying that kind of detail, because it was important to them.  But somehow, I became fair game because I said something different.  It was not understood, and when I explained, it was somehow too late.  Deja vue.

This is not important in one sense, but in another I need to learn how not to become so visible that I am a target like this.  Maybe I should have just joined in saying the same as everyone else.   :(

bunny

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2005, 02:58:30 PM »
October, I just read the poem (which you posted elsewhere) and I CANNOT see what the problem with it is. I don't get it - I'm baffled about the hostile reaction. However, just a pragmatic thought about groups, if you are going to go outside the norm of what the group is doing, you are likely to be attacked. It's not you, it's group mentality. The same thing could happen here.

You're okay, just post here where we understand.

bunny

October

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2005, 07:53:41 PM »
You are right, Bunny.  It is because I am not the same.  So the answer is either to be the same, or to stick up for myself.  And I have chosen the latter. 

This is what I have just realised to myself, lying in bed not sleeping and worrying myself silly about what is wrong.  And now that I know what it is about (I think??  :? ), and responded as follows, I hope I can sleep, and forget all about it. 


I have a feeling that anyone who has not liked what I have said so far is going to hate this one.  :  /

I have been wondering why it is that I have not been able to join in the happiness of those who have found loved ones on this board.  I am happy for them, but I have found myself unable to thank God for any particular person being safe and well; not even if it were my own brothers.  Not unless for every person found alive, someone who is dead is found not to be dead, like Lazarus raised from the tomb.

I am not saying this need be true of anyone else, but it is true of me.  To thank God that my brother is safe is - for me - the same as thanking God that the person who was killed is a complete stranger to me.  That is anathema to me; perhaps blasphemy.  Every single person who died was related to every single one of us.  That is what John Donne said, and he was absolutely right.  Rather than being crass, this is one of the most profound truths we will ever know.  (If we ever do.)  Without it, we are totally alone.

That is what I have said, perhaps not very successfully.  And having spelled it out so clearly to myself, I can see why the reactions have been so strong against this.  It looks as if I am not happy that someone's daughter, someone's son, is safe.  I don't know what kind of imagination people must have to think that of anyone.  The only people unhappy with our safety are the murderers; am I really equated with them for quoting John Donne?

I have not phoned any of my friends or family in London; bad news always travels faster than good news.  I have phoned two ladies of my acquaintance who lived through the Blitz, and who are feeling rather unsettled.  Neither of them, I think, would describe me as arrogant or glib.  Neither would anyone who (really) knows me.

I am not criticising anyone else for thinking or behaving differently from this.  But please allow me the space to be who I am without personal attacks being made.  For one thing, they hurt (and expose) the person who writes them far more than they hurt me.


« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 07:56:36 PM by October »

Stormchild

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2005, 10:38:43 PM »
Yesterday, not having words of my own, I posted there the poem by John Donne.  At the same time everyone else on the thread was posting who was in London, and where they were, and how they felt when they found loved ones were safe.  I couldn't do that kind of thing in public even if I had friends or loved ones there; it was a rather tasteless parading of 'how close did I come to being bereaved'.  Bizarre.

In response I have had several messages which I can only describe as vitriolic, calling me crass, unfeeling, arrogant; you name it.

October, the way people react in a crisis often [not always] shows what kind of people they really are.

These folks were thinking only of themselves. Only of people who mattered to them directly. So... without meaning to do it, you held a mirror up to their essential selfishness, and they projected their garbage all over you. You weren't posting Donne to 'show them up', you were posting it because it showed solidarity with all those who were bereaved, or for whom that bell did toll... I am sorry to be indelicate, but you basically interrupted a group wankfest, and pointed out - by your example of thinking of others - that this is what was going on.

Again, that wasn't your intention, but...

A town fellow was visiting his country cousin, who owned both a pig farm and an apple orchard. On the day he arrived, he found his cousin out in the orchard, with the pigs. The pigs had eaten all of the windfall apples, and the farming cousin was carefully picking up first one pig, then another, holding them up to the lower branches and letting them eat the low-hanging ripe fruit.

the town fellow scratched his head and said, 'what on earth are you doing?'

'feeding the pigs some apples', said his country cousin.

'doesn't it take a lot of time, doing it that way?' asked the townie.

'Shoot,' said his cousin. 'What's time to a pig?'

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

mudpuppy

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2005, 11:55:10 PM »
Hey!

Quote
'Shoot,' said his cousin. 'What's time to a pig?'
Is that a crack about country bumpkins?

Oops, gotta go, Arnold wants to watch Green Acres. :P

mudpup

October

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2005, 07:17:06 AM »
Yesterday, not having words of my own, I posted there the poem by John Donne.  At the same time everyone else on the thread was posting who was in London, and where they were, and how they felt when they found loved ones were safe.  I couldn't do that kind of thing in public even if I had friends or loved ones there; it was a rather tasteless parading of 'how close did I come to being bereaved'.  Bizarre.

In response I have had several messages which I can only describe as vitriolic, calling me crass, unfeeling, arrogant; you name it.

October, the way people react in a crisis often [not always] shows what kind of people they really are.

These folks were thinking only of themselves.

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Thanks, Stormy.  (((((Hugs)))))

I now have a very irreverent image of Our Lord sitting speaking to his disciples, and telling them; 'Thou shalt not interrupt a group W***fest.'   :D :D :D

Love your story about the pig.  :)

October

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2005, 07:21:24 AM »
Hey!

Quote
'Shoot,' said his cousin. 'What's time to a pig?'
Is that a crack about country bumpkins?

Oops, gotta go, Arnold wants to watch Green Acres. :P

mudpup

Ain't none of us descended from anything other than country bumpkins, imo.   :lol:

Doncha just love the Waltons?  Bought box set of series one for C, and she loves it too.  Always used to be on telly on Sunday lunchtime, and we used to say that if you watched the Waltons you got the same heaven points as if you went to church.   :lol:

Bliz1

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2005, 07:59:30 AM »
Many people react to tragedy and stress with projection and blaming.  I have been there myself.  This board, in part, is about regaining your voice, so please dont stop expressing your feelings, thoughts, etc., about anything you desire.  You cannot control the reaction people have to your words.  If you are genuinely trying to express your thoughts with no planned agenda of changing theirs, I believe it is honest sharing and should not be judged.

mudpuppy

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2005, 12:04:36 PM »
Hi October,

If you liked the Waltons you'll probably like a movie called Spencer's Mountain too. Its by the same man who created the Waltons and is essentially the same story. Prettified for Hollywood of course, so its set in the Grand Tetons instead of the Appalachians but its still a good story with the same values. With Henry Fonda and Mareen O'Hara and a whole bunch of crumb crunchers.

And if you ever happen to see the Carol Burnett show's parody of the Waltons, called 'Walnut's Mound' you won't stop laughing for a week. They put the bump in bumpkin. :D

mud

October

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2005, 12:52:38 PM »

If you liked the Waltons you'll probably like a movie called Spencer's Mountain too.

And if you ever happen to see the Carol Burnett show's parody of the Waltons, called 'Walnut's Mound' you won't stop laughing for a week. They put the bump in bumpkin. :D

mud

Thanks, Mud.  I'll look out for both of those.  :  D

Stormchild

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2005, 01:18:02 PM »
October, I just read the poem (which you posted elsewhere) and I CANNOT see what the problem with it is. I don't get it - I'm baffled about the hostile reaction. However, just a pragmatic thought about groups, if you are going to go outside the norm of what the group is doing, you are likely to be attacked. It's not you, it's group mentality. The same thing could happen here.

You're okay, just post here where we understand.

bunny

bunny, you make an excellent point! And... a person doesn't even have to violate[/b] the group norms, to get this kind of scapegoating reaction from the group. Under the right [wrong] conditions, with the right [wrong] group, all one has to do is.... make it obvious that there is an unspoken standard being adhered to, and point out - in any way at all - directly or indirectly - what that standard is.

I think that's how October 'caught it'. Posting Donne was just enough of a contrast - universalist vs. parochialist concern for people - to 'out' the operating norm and make her a target. [Hi, "her"! Sorry to third-person you.]

I tend to run afoul of this dynamic myself. All the time. Hard to pretend one doesn't see things, and if one's acceptance by a group requires one to choose or feign blindness, can it ever really be worth it?

Which also fits in with something Longtire was saying on another thread...

Peace,

October

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2005, 01:26:50 PM »

I think that's how October 'caught it'. Posting Donne was just enough of a contrast - universalist vs. parochialist concern for people - to 'out' the operating norm and make her a target. [Hi, "her"! Sorry to third-person you.]

I tend to run afoul of this dynamic myself. All the time. Hard to pretend one doesn't see things, and if one's acceptance by a group requires one to choose or feign blindness, can it ever really be worth it?

Peace,

This is such a sensible way to look at it, and explains the 'trouble magnet' feeling.  If we don't put up with nonsense from anyone, it is going to look as if we both cause and attract trouble.  Whereas in fact we are such harmless, cuddly little souls, who wouldn't harm a fly.   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or putting it another way, when you have faced down Ns, you can't be frightened of other people any more.

bunny

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Re: Attacked for not being hysterical
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2005, 01:41:28 PM »
So the answer is either to be the same, or to stick up for myself.  And I have chosen the latter.

It depends on whether standing up for oneself is worth it or will lead to more abuse. In the group you were describing, I understand that these people are attempting to grapple with trauma. This is how they comfort, console themselves, and manage feelings of helplessness and terror. I am okay with what they are doing and I am also okay with your poem. It may just be that you and these people are on different wavelengths right now.

take care, bunny