shared custody of a DOG!!???

[mum]

Okay, I would appreciate feedback.

I just got off the phone with my exN. Many of you know we are in an ongoing, very expensive battle in the courts....too long to go into, but suffice it to say, we don't speak, or at least I try not to (he'd love it if he got my ear everyday....but I don't allow that).  Hard to be civil with someone who has prevented you from having a life of your own, and is dragging you to court to pay less child support to boot!!

My 13 year old has been bugging me for a "dog of her own" ( I have 2 and her dad has 1). She wants a little tiny dog she can take back and forth. I didn't get it for her recent birthday (mostly because we were away) and neither did her dad. I told her I might consider it down the line, but she  is persistant. She wants it to go to both houses (she are mostly with me), and that means communication between her dad and I.  YUCK. 
I honestly like dogs, the more the merrier, etc. but since I will be in another battle with him soon over my trying to move again, I could totally see him using the dog to bribe my daughter into staying here.
So he calls today...they are at a puppy store.  He wants to know if I am ok with my daughter getting her own dog, so I said:
"What adult would be legally responsible for the dog?
Who would pay for the dog, it's vet bills, etc.?"
To which he says, "well, I thought we could both be responsible, and share the costs"
YIKES!!!
And I tell him: "look, this would mean communication between us, and frankly, if you haven't noticed, we don't do that".
He says:"well, this is why I am calling you right now. We need to communicate for the sake of C, and that's all".
and then I really spilled it: "I do not want you to use this dog as a manipulative tool should C and I  move" and then he says: "well, I don't ever envision that happening, so I guess I hadn't thought of that." (nice to know he never envisions my getting free of him, huh?)
I said I would "not be making a decision at this time."
..and of course, I will most likely end up going to  look at prospective puppies tomorrow (and dog addict that I am, fall in love with one).

Can you believe this?  NOW he wants to share custody of a DOG!!!!
AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH.

Here are some thoughts:
He can buy the dog and be responsible for it, or I will buy the dog and be responsible for it. And because he is such a bastard, he may buy it and use that to bribe his child into staying here....but he is also so cheap, in his puny mind he will say "fine...you pay for it all, I knew you would anyway, which is why I got her a purse for her birthday and you got stuck buying the ipod mini!!!
Ha, now you get stuck buying the dog, too!!!!"
Or I could just say NO, I won't buy it, and my d will hate me if her dad won't or he will buy it and I can be the one going: sucker!!! and then he can say to her: well you have to stay here with your dog!!!!
and here is the other thing: if we buy it "together", his attorney (who has done this in the past) will say "See? they work together as co parents sooo well. How can we break that up for the mom to move?"

Well, I talked to my d just a second ago (she is with him for a few more days) and I told her one of us would most likely buy it and she said "NO NO NO. You have to pay half, both of you. Why not?? "
to which I clumsily replied: "I don't want to have one more reason to try and deal with your dad"....I will have to use the "custody of the dog " line (hadn't thought of that yet).

Anyway, this crap never ends.    Wow. I really dumped. Thanks for listening.

I am sure a solution will come my way soon.  It's all very interesting, though....not quite sure I know what to do, but I will be patient.

[write]

my 2 cents. If you get a dog make your daughter the responsible one for it's wellbeing and care etc. At 13 she's old enough to deal with that, maybe even get a part-time job to help pay? Negotiate with her not your ex; doesn't sound like he'll be consistent whatever you decided anyway.

I know it's ironic when he doesn't even want to pay full whack for his child, doubt he would see it even if you pointed it out though.

Good luck.

[mum]

Thanks, Write. I guess I should have mentioned that my daughter knows she would be totally responsible for training, cleaning up, paying for what she could out of her babysitting money, etc. But at 13 she hardly has the resources to deal with vet bills, etc....so that's where the icky stuff comes in if her dad and I shared those costs. I just don't want any more to do with him than I already do, you know?

[dogbit]

This is going to sound harsh and I don't mean it that way but to buy a dog at this point would only be placing a defenseless animal into the line of fire.  The future of the dog would be predicated on the on-going hostility of the seperation.   It would be like adding another child to the mix.  I know your kiddo wants a dog but this is not a good time.  Too many dogs are left at shelters because of domestic disputes and your daughter needs to know this in whatever way you decide to explain it.  It's a tough lesson to learn but taking on the responsibility of an animal means you give the animal the same respect you give yourself.  I've done animal rescue for many years now.  All of my dogs have come from people who are well-intending initially but circumstances happen and they are left to put to sleep or hopefully, to have some fool like me take them in.  Stuff happens but when you know stuff is likely to happen, it is irresponsible to take on the the life of a dog or cat or turtle, whatever, when you don't know how long you can be a responsible owner.  Aside from my soap box oration, it sounds like a giant hoover to me.  The thing your daughter needs to know is that because of the divorce, the future is uncertain.  Why would you bring a potentially beloved pet into this uncertainty.  It may be a painful lesson to her and I'm sure you will bear the brunt of her pleas but the honest fact is that you have to place the welfare of an innocent animal into the mix of what is happening in your life.  If your daughter would like, I could tell her the stories of the dogs I have now and why they were left to be euthanized.  It doesn't make good reading.  I know I am sounding harsh but the bottom line is that we should take in pets when we have a stable life to the best of our knowledge to provide them with a "forever" home.  The first course to take is to take care of ourselves so that we have a future that we can share with a potential pet.

[mum]

Thanks, Dogbit for your response.
     I agree with you that this is not an ideal time for another family member. That is exactly why it is a difficult decision for me. I assure you, though, I do not view animals as items at all. Animals have always been my great love and as such, integral parts of my family.
      My dogs are a huge part of my life, and like you, I have never understood why anyone would ever choose an animal only to leave it later. My dogs are with me for life.  I have rescued many dogs, and one of my current dogs, who is such a wonderful boy, was one of those dogs that many a patient person told me I was nuts to keep.  But I would never have sent him back to the pound, ever.  As my vet said at the last exam..."He has become such a wonderful dog. It shows what dedication and love can do".
     So you see, I am not frivolous with animals at all. This is not the issue, whether the dog would "go back" at some point. For goodness sake, my dogs sleep on my bed (when invited) so another sweetie is ok with me!
     But your concern is also well taken and quite right in so far as adding another complication to this situation. The divorce is nine years ago, by the way, but all the same, I would hate for my daughter's sake to have her desire for her "very own" dog, rule the situation. All good things for me to consider.
    Her dad will very possibly get the dog anyway, for less altruistic purposes than just seeing his daughter happy.
So I will be with it anyway. And I will never abandon an animal.
     I understand your passion about animals and agree with you completely on the subject of animal ownership. It's ok. I am not the kind of person who buys and return animals, so that need not be a concern. The rest of what you say is extremely good food for thought (for me).
Thanks.

[miss piggy]

Hi Mum,

Dogbit is right on the money about looking at it from the dog's point of view.  Also, It would be hard enough to come into two people-only families.  What about how the dog will fit in with two sets of animals?  Very confusing for the dog, even if you and your x got along.

I also wonder if your daughter is aware of the no-win situation she has placed her parents in.  At least one of you has to be the "bad guy" to set limits on your daughter's requests of the both of you.  If you are adamantly against this, you may say to her that if her father gets the dog anyway it stays at his house and he/your daughter deal with it.  She's 13 and going to test, test, test.  If she keeps bringing it up, I would threaten to withhold her allowance for that week she brings it up (I've done this with my own kids to stop the pleading when I've already said NO to something.  Ain't I a stinkah?)  Sorry to sound tough on your daughter, but it seems she is the source of this dilemma, so she has to make the hard choices, not you.  And so what if your x says "gee honey it's ok with me but your mother has a problem with it."  oh well.  if he goes along with it, he can keep it and the expenses. 

Wow, this one is certainly pushing a button in me!  Anyway, hope this sounding off helps a little.  MP

[October]

I am not sure I can add to this one, except for having a daughter the same age, who would love a kitten, but I am not up to managing another member of the family.  That is not to say nobody should have pets, but a goldfish was all I could cope with (together with the existing budgie, that is.) 

However.  Looking at this from your daughter's point of view, I am left wondering why she needs something/someone of her own to take with her from your house to her dad's house.  It looks as if there is a great deal of insecurity there, perhaps of her own identity, which she is trying to overcome, and she knows that a puppy would help.  I am sure she is right, but perhaps there are other ways of overcoming that insecurity, and then adding a puppy later on.  I am wondering why the normal teddy bear type of comfort object is not enough for her.  Has someone made fun of her having stuffed toys?     Maybe she has decided for herself that they are not enough.

In terms of the financial side, the way I approach this with my 12 year old is to allow her money of her own each month, which goes directly into a bank account for her, and which she can then spend as she likes.  She has her own cashcard, which won't allow her to overdraw, and she can plan her own spending.  To start with I allowed her to 'borrow' from me, and she then learned the painful lesson of having to pay it back, so she won't borrow any more.    

A major achievement recently with her dad was to persuade him to add to this money.  It goes in direct from his account to hers, and I have nothing to do with it, which is fine by me.  It is not child support (he pays no support whatever for her); it is pocket money.

If a similar situation could be set up for your daughter, and an insurance plan to cover vets bills paid for out of that account, then perhaps the communication bit does not need to happen.  I can understand that you want as little as possible to do with him, and I don't blame you at all for that.

Whatever you decide, I hope it all goes well.  And puppies are such lovely, cuddly little bundles ...   

[dogbit]

So you see, I am not frivolous with animals at all

I never thought you were.  It was late at night and I had just finished talking to my girl friend about my husband and was feeling more testy than diplomatic.  I also could see so clearly the situation your husband was putting you and your daughter in and I was feeling like putting the dogs on him!  I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear.  I'm two years into trying to get a divorce and my kids are 22 and 23 so I can explain to them more what is going on and they are old enough to see for themselves who their father is.  And me too   .  Sorry again that I sounded self-righteous.  I was just mad at your husband.  And sad for your daughter.  Bittles 

[mum]

It's ok, Bittles. I would have said ok to the dog 3 months ago, if I didn't see it as the commitment it is. If I sounded defensive, it's because you will not find a more devoted animal lover than me (except perhaps you! )

And Miss Piggy, I am also concerned about how our present dogs will behave toward it, feel about it, and all the confusion it may cause for all the dogs, new one included. I don't truly believe my daughter has any idea how hard this will be for her. She likes to sleep.  That in itself will be a big deal. She hates stinky messes, but swears it will be taken care of by her. What I will have to do, is "explain" to my other dogs that this pup is not a toy, etc., and all of us will need to pay special attention to them, so they don't feel resentment toward the pup. And yes, the poor thing, going back and forth. Will it end up a nervous wreck? This is why I am up at four AM. It certainly has my brain hurting right now.
The thing about my ex, is that he is a horrible man, really. He would have no qualms about holding this dog for ransom, so to speak, so my daughter will want to be with him more. That's what this is about for him. It's so very sad....and transparent to me, but not to my daughter. Try telling a 13 year old that her dad is really a user with a heart of stone.....well, I won't be doing that.
 
I think I will call my vet. He is nice enough to have a heart to heart with her about what all this will mean to a puppy and the other dogs. This more than anything will help her and me, I'm sure. That it will hurt the puppy's life or my other dog's, is what will get her to see the complications of it all. 

And October: well, I think you have something there. My daughter is pretty smart, but she is not fully aware as to why she does things, of course (like most of us are not aware).  There is definately something underneath all of this. She has told me that having a dog of her own "over there" will help her feel better.  Because she has been allowed to talk to an "expert" to testify on her behalf regarding visitation, her dad has turned on the "charm", and I have no doubt she is, like any kid, taking advantage of this.
Just when I think my life couldn't get more complicated...now this.

I know what I have to do, spiritually, energetically.  I can take care of that, and I am sure when I can process these feelings, I wil be better....then there will be more to process! Ah, life!

On a funny note: as I write this, my younger dog is "talking" to something, who knows what: turns out it's himself in the mirror...a mirror he has seen two million times and not really cared a bit about but in the darkness he decides it's another dog.  What a hoot. Reassuring a four year old dog about the benign quality of a mirror....oy.

[miss piggy]

Hi Mum,

After reading October's reply, my heart just melted for your daughter.  (For the harshness of my post, I plead insanity.  I am a mother of teenagers too.    )

It's interesting that she may need something of her own over at your x's place.  Isn't that how we all feel around Ns?  They'll have you feeling like a guest in your own house.  Maybe she could redecorate her room at both places...? 

I was even wondering if she could have two dogs, one at your place and one at X's!  Then the dogs could fight over her, too!     But that really wasn't the idea, was it? 

again, good luck sorting it all out.  Going to the vet for a chat is a nice idea.  Best, MP

[miaxo]

Hi Mum

If you are able to pull this off I give you tons of credit.  Thankfully for my kids (b/c they are still under eight)  a stuffed anmial serves the purpose of having something they can take back and forth to both houses.

We both know that your X N will not foot any of the costs down the road....that's a given...just as it is with my X N.
So if you are cool with that then you have half the battle won.

Does the breed that your daughter is looking to get adapt well to changes?  I remember my dog from childhood and she didn't do well when we took her with us on vacations etc.  Just a thought that you probably already addressed.

Best wishes that it works out OK for your daughter and the pooch.

Hugs
Mia

[mum]

I certainly appreciate all the feedback.

It's interesting that she may need something of her own over at your x's place.  Isn't that how we all feel around Ns?  They'll have you feeling like a guest in your own house.  Maybe she could redecorate her room at both places...? 

Funny you should word it that way, Miss Piggy.  She often has said that being at Dad's house is like being in a hotel, not a home. And considering how anal he is, I'll bet it is!
As far as decorating, because I am an artist, I guess, I am always letting/helping her re-do her room (it's something we both love to do together).  At her dad's house, her step mom and dad did her room for her (it's nice and neat). Oh, and she actually has two dogs here and one at her dad's, but they are not "hers" alone, per se , and mine certainly are not portable.

Does the breed that your daughter is looking to get adapt well to changes?

thanks for the support, Mia. I have been on the phone with the vet's assistant on and off this morning and talking to several people who have both big and little dogs.  These are all concerns of mine, really. So far I have been reassured that if my daughter is the constant person in it's life, and this two home thing is  initiated immediately, the dog will adapt....same goes for the life with other dogs thing.  All good food for thought, really.  I only want her to have a mix of a small dog, as I have been reading that a mix of two small breeds usually doesn't have the health problems of a purebred.  I need information before I make a decision, so this is what I will do today....

I have already made one decision, that if a dog does come along.....I will be the adult responsible for it, or it won't be in my home.  And you are right, Mia, that part of the battle I have won.  He will gladly let me do that, according to my daughter (big surprise) but that's ok with me, as he wouldn't be able to use that, should she choose to move with me.

I feel a little in a corner, but not too much, as getting a dog was never OUT of the question. Just "sharing" this with her dad is.

I'm sure if I can approach this dilemma with positive thoughts, the right thing will happen....or the wrong thing. But heck, something will happen either way...get out the giant WHATEVER stamp, you know the one needed when you can't control everything?!!
Oh, and if there ever is a time when we can....someone let me in on it!!!

Mia: hope you are well, sweetie.

[October]

Thankfully for my kids (b/c they are still under eight)  a stuffed anmial serves the purpose of having something they can take back and forth to both houses.

Mia

You are fortunate if you can get away with one.  Currently, my daughter needs Ted, Dolly, Millie, Molly and Mandy (varying size stuffed pink kittens) and Beebee (another ted). 

At home there are 20/30 or so more characters to choose from, but these are the ones that come on holiday with us.