H again Raggedy Ann - and Gwyneveyre
RA : I guess I believe one of the challenges for you will be not having the opportunity of seeing your mother from a new perspective as you make the changes within yourself - and that's why I feel moved to share my own experience with you.
The only way that I was able to make the break from my mother was to turn off all empathy for her. It was what I needed to do at the time, but I feel that it has exacted a high price for me.
Absolutely. I know exactly what you mean. And you did what we all have to do to survive these parents. That's what it does to us. That's what creates the 'genus' ACON - Survivor.
I think that if you discover the concept of projective identification and understand how it works, you'll understand better some elements of why you had to 'shut down' (see books by Nina Brown amongst others). You might not be as 'nice' but it saves you being wishy washy or patronising! It depends on what you value as to whether that's a good thing or not.
Does it makes us more 'N' like? We are less likely to be romantic but then we are less likely to get taken for a ride. Is that being less empathetic, or just more honest, true, clear and strong-minded?
Where is the fine line between being unhealthily narcissistic and having the self-interest that's known as self-respect?? Have we learned too much guilt around 'hurting' others (as our parents were so easily and wilfully hurt by anything we did that didn't centre around their needs) that we fear our very existence hurts others others and prefer to self-sacrifice than stand up for our own rights as individuals. And we've justified that as a good thing - we are being 'nice' after all!!
See how easy it is to be conned by our own sensitivities???
You ask about the difference between mental illness and a personality disorder. My understanding is that the former can be treated with drugs and the latter cannot - it's seen as a lifestyle 'choice'.
Sure, it's the best they can choose given the circumstances of their own pain and I try to respect that. Nevertheless, it seems sad to abandon them to their pain - sad for them and bad for us.
But trying to get help for an N is a bit like finding a fericious dog in a yard and getting mauled by it. You tell the police and they tell you the owner has a right to keep the dog and we have to keep out of the yard (even if we live there!). The hospital will patch us up, the psychiatrists will help with PTSS but you still have to keep out of the yard. (And anyway the dog is probably sleeping peacefully or rolling on its back for a tummy tickle when you finally get someone in authority to come see!!)
G : The most important thing I learned in therapy is that everything has its own time and won't be rushed - you're absolutely right to take your time and allow yourself to 'go with the flow' of your own feelings.
The kind of anger that helps is akin to being assertive - standing up for who you are, what you need, etc. And it's difficult to be clear about that unless you reach the core of your anger. It doesn't mean throwing a wobbly - it means finding the core of who you are.
Strangely enough, our 'niceness' rarely tells the truth. Our anger
always does (even if we often regret saying it afterwards!!)
Someone who is narcissistic may not think about your feelings or your needs, but someone with NPD denies completely who you are, denies your very existence - it's an outrageous thing to do to another human being. If you think or talk about this outrageous behaviour and feel 'compassion' rather than 'outrage', then I'll bet it's still hiding a huge amount of pain and grief and fear and shame. The day you can feel neutral - not substituting compassion for outrage, then you'll have worked through it.
Take care everyone.
R
