media narcissism

[vunil]

Write, I get what you are saying-- can we look at the bigger global/cultural picture and how things are presented to us in general, especially about this tragedy.  I will say, I don't think anyone here is being narcissistic.  It is kind of a loaded word to use here-- I think people are just reacting to each other in a way that makes some amount of sense once it gets all disentangled.

Marta, I'm sorry I misunderstood before-- I think I understand now that you feel as if you asked for an apology, didn't get it, and then were told you were bullying for asking for it.  Is that it?  That does seem hurtful.  I have never noticed how often in this country we use the term "third-world"-- I know I do it.  I will stop.  It reminds me of the moment in college when I said "Indian giver" to someone and right then I realized what I was saying!  It had never occured to me before (in my defense, I was 20 years old).  It helps me to hear from you on that and I'd like to know more about where you are from, if you are willing to come back and share with us.

[vunil]

Oh, and back on track (!) I have noticed how the media, when they get tired of the same old thing, go in one of two directions-- either some tangential story about something (how levees are built or something) or some self-aggrandizing deal of the kind I think inspired this thread-- some just really puffed up deal where the reporter unites one person with one other person and pronounces victory over the tragedy or worse puts a camera in the face of a suffering person for pure media gratification with no real point to make.  And then, my pet peeve, the reporter puts the camera on him/herself and says, gravely, "back to you, Jim" as if what they have shown is so special and important that nothing more need be said.

I like the first kind of story, though.  It has been really interesting to learn the history of all of this, which I didn't know.

On the good side, there have been so many donations in my town that they can't even take any more right now (we are housing several thousand evacuees). 

[daylily]

I wonder why the media has given the Mayor of New Orleans a complete "pass" on his irresponsible behavior.  How could he put thousands of people in the Superdome without food, water, sanitation, or law enforcement?  How could he not put anyone in charge there--better yet, a team of people that could not be shouted down or overpowered--and command them to stay put and keep order until help arrived?

It's a very open question as to just how tardy FEMA was in reaching the Superdome, and I am not in any way saying that there's no federal responsibility.  But look:  FEMA's own materials say that people should be equipped for a 72-hour delay in reaching victims because of damaged/destroyed infrastructure.  (And if ever an infrastructure was damaged...)  Whatever.  FEMA does have to take a hit.  However, so do the locals.  People went to the Superdome because they were told to.  They stayed because there was no place else to go.  Wasn't it local government's responsibility to ensure that the official evacuation site was adequately equipped and adequately policed?

I don't want to start the whole argument all over again.  But I'm really curious as to what others think about the media's willingness to let the mayor off the hook.  I think it's really interesting that he started screaming at Washington and the media just took his lead.

daylily

[jordanspeeps]

sorry for for the delay in posting; my five year old began the very first day of her scholastic life on today and i wanted nothing to detract from this special time for her, but now that she’s off, sweet-looking teacher, too , Please allow me to respond to the situation at hand.

portia:

Tif, can you please clarify what you feel and think? Do you think African Americans deserve more of your sympathy  than refugees of other countries?

I wonder if instead you’re saying that in general there’s a tendency to see all non-white people as one group, and it would be good if white Americans could see simply other fellow Americans, instead of seeing skin colour and therefore lumping all non-whites as ‘others’ and therefore different?

I think I can see what you’re driving at – changing how you think others’ see things, which is not necessarily how you  see things?

this is EXACTLY how i intended to be interpreted!   i don’t/didn’t mean any disrespect to people who are displaced in disenfranchised countries, (i hate the expression “third world”, as well) nor did i have any analogy of blacks being “good” and refugees being “bad” in mind when i made that statement.  i was attempting to make the demarcation between the IMAGES of Hurricane Katrina currently being viewed  in the american media, images we’ve come to associate with dire situations on a distant foreign soil with what catastrophic crisis is  happening here in the US right now involving its own citizens and countrymen.  i realize now, i should have kept that imagery of the “third world” refugee to myself.  and to clarify, absolutely, i think African-Americans deserve more of not just mine but all Americans sympathy, than refugees of other countries, yes!!  Charity begins at home.

vunil in some way supports the assumed preface of my earlier provocative point in one of her replies in this thread:

I have never noticed how often in this country we use the term "third-world"-- I know I do it.  I will stop.

i was appealing to that gut feeling that displaces you from disenfranchised peoples and attempting to appeal to fellow americans that we,  hard, working, tax-paying african-americans, deserve a huge vote of all types of support, despite the impressions of ignorant day care mothers fearful of the images they’ve seen on tv.

and to martyr:

i’ll again admit that my comment re: “third world refugees” was quite thoughtless and again, i apologize, deeply to you and all of my friends living in disenfranchised countries, (i’ve been a volunteer for and have visited several in my life).  with regards to your alienating me in the future, you especially, do not have to worry about responding to my posts, as there will be no more.

the best to the rest of you guys

tiffany/jordanspeeps

[amethyst]

I wonder why the media has given the Mayor of New Orleans a complete "pass" on his irresponsible behavior.  How could he put thousands of people in the Superdome without food, water, sanitation, or law enforcement?  How could he not put anyone in charge there--better yet, a team of people that could not be shouted down or overpowered--and command them to stay put and keep order until help arrived?

It's a very open question as to just how tardy FEMA was in reaching the Superdome, and I am not in any way saying that there's no federal responsibility.  But look:  FEMA's own materials say that people should be equipped for a 72-hour delay in reaching victims because of damaged/destroyed infrastructure.  (And if ever an infrastructure was damaged...)  Whatever.  FEMA does have to take a hit.  However, so do the locals.  People went to the Superdome because they were told to.  They stayed because there was no place else to go.  Wasn't it local government's responsibility to ensure that the official evacuation site was adequately equipped and adequately policed?

I don't want to start the whole argument all over again.  But I'm really curious as to what others think about the media's willingness to let the mayor off the hook.  I think it's really interesting that he started screaming at Washington and the media just took his lead.

daylily

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this one too, Daylily, and I am not sure that Ray Nagin is going to get a totally free pass. He did get 80% of the people out of NOLA, which is incredible. He apparently felt that most of the folks in the convention center and the Super Dome would not have to stay there long. He did not have the time to get the Superdome and the convention center stocked and totally secured. However, during the evacuation, they were frisking people for drugs and weapons. The breakdown occurred after NOLA flooded and more people poured into the Dome and convention center, when the police were hampered by lack of communications.  Nagin had to get the governor's permission to even open the Superdome.  After the hurricane, there was a great sense of relief that NOLA had not taken a direct hit...and it wasn't until later that it was realized that the flood walls had been breached and that NOLA was flooding. There has also been the question of why he didn't bus people out of there before the hurricane and he said that he had considered it, but that because of the traffic jams, he felt many people would be trapped on the highways in the eye of the storm. As far as airlifting people, NOLA's airport, which he has no control over was closed.  It was a logistical nightmare. On top of that, communications completely broke down after the storm.

One thing we need to look at is the amount of funding that our city governments have for drastic emergencies, much less operating day to day. Cities are badly underfunded. You can have resources within a city, like those school buses that are repeatedly shown, that the city itself might not have access to. Those buses, if the situation in NOLA is like that of most cities, may be owned by a private contracter and employ part-time drivers (who were undoubtedly busy scrambling to help their own families.) The Superdome is another example of a resource that Nagin had to get permission to use. As far as water and adequate toilets, how was he supposed to get that stocked with the traffic moving out of the city in one direction and the airport closed?

Had the flooding not occured, Nagin would be hailed as an unqualified hero. Now some people want to make him out to be the villain. My take on it is that he did the best he could with what he had at the time, so the truth about Nagin probably is not as black or white as people tend to make it out to be. Could he have done more? We won't know until we are sure of what resources he had directly available and how much lead time to use them.

As far as FEMA goes, Bush had declared a state of emergency two days before the hurricane struck. FEMA could have been staged in Texas or the plain states, where the storm wasn't ever going to hit, ready to go as soon as the storm passed. Instead, they came in through the north.

I think that many of our questions will be answered when somebody does a thorough timeline and resource analysis.

[Plucky]

you especially, do not have to worry about responding to my posts, as there will be no more.

Tif are you saying you're leaving the board?  I think that would be a shame.
Plucky

[amethyst]

sorry for for the delay in posting; my five year old began the very first day of her scholastic life on today and i wanted nothing to detract from this special time for her, but now that she’s off, sweet-looking teacher, too , Please allow me to respond to the situation at hand.

portia:

Tif, can you please clarify what you feel and think? Do you think African Americans deserve more of your sympathy  than refugees of other countries?

I wonder if instead you’re saying that in general there’s a tendency to see all non-white people as one group, and it would be good if white Americans could see simply other fellow Americans, instead of seeing skin colour and therefore lumping all non-whites as ‘others’ and therefore different?

I think I can see what you’re driving at – changing how you think others’ see things, which is not necessarily how you  see things?

this is EXACTLY how i intended to be interpreted!   i don’t/didn’t mean any disrespect to people who are displaced in disenfranchised countries, (i hate the expression “third world”, as well) nor did i have any analogy of blacks being “good” and refugees being “bad” in mind when i made that statement.  i was attempting to make the demarcation between the IMAGES of Hurricane Katrina currently being viewed  in the american media, images we’ve come to associate with dire situations on a distant foreign soil with what catastrophic crisis is  happening here in the US right now involving its own citizens and countrymen.  i realize now, i should have kept that imagery of the “third world” refugee to myself.  and to clarify, absolutely, i think African-Americans deserve more of not just mine but all Americans sympathy, than refugees of other countries, yes!!  Charity begins at home.

vunil in some way supports the assumed preface of my earlier provocative point in one of her replies in this thread:

I have never noticed how often in this country we use the term "third-world"-- I know I do it.  I will stop.

i was appealing to that gut feeling that displaces you from disenfranchised peoples and attempting to appeal to fellow americans that we,  hard, working, tax-paying african-americans, deserve a huge vote of all types of support, despite the impressions of ignorant day care mothers fearful of the images they’ve seen on tv.

and to martyr:

i’ll again admit that my comment re: “third world refugees” was quite thoughtless and again, i apologize, deeply to you and all of my friends living in disenfranchised countries, (i’ve been a volunteer for and have visited several in my life).  with regards to your alienating me in the future, you especially, do not have to worry about responding to my posts, as there will be no more.

the best to the rest of you guys

tiffany/jordanspeeps

(((Tiffany))) Please don't leave the board. I value your contributions. As a multiracial person, I agree that there is a profound tendency in our society to see others who look different from the Caucasian Anglo-Saxon middle class majority as different, other, alien, and therefore somehow bad or a threat. As I said before, racism and classism (and anti-Semitism) are alive and well in our culture.

I know there are phrases that are hurtful, from personal experience. Whenever I hear someone use the N word, I go ballistic. Another expression I absolutely hate is "I jewed him down."  I hate to hear any type of racial slur and I don't care whether or not I am a member of the group that is being slurred. It doesn't even have to be a racial, ethnic thing. My hubby has a learning disability that causes him problems with sequencing and I recently found out that someone who he works with was going around calling him "stupid."

I had never thought about the word "refugee" as being pejorative until it was brought to our attention, probably because I consider myself a refugee from my own family. Until Marta pointed it out, I hadn't thought of the words "third world" as hurtful. I have learned something from this. We all can use what's happened here to learn about how we are taught terminology, slogans, or "catch-all" words and how they can sound to others.

So please stay. Both you and Marta have taught me something very important.

A hopeful,
Amethyst
 

[Plucky]

and to martyr:

uh, tif, was this a typo?
a freudian
Plucky

[vunil]

Tif-- don't leave!  I don't want you to leave.

How is that for an N reason to ask you not to leave?

But, please, don't.  I really value your input and your posts. 

[vunil]

Oh, re:  the mayor-- in my circles he has been roundly criticized (along with the feds).  I don't think he'll get a free pass.  I think he messed up a lot in the beginning and then really worked hard to make up for it later.  People are liking his hustle later but can't forget how many busses he (didn't!) send to help get people out.

[Marta]

Plucky, thanks for your accurate understanding of this spin off, it really means a lot to me; just to see that I am being understood somehow takes away all the charge out of my emotional reaction. Is this what is called mirroring that my mom was supposed to have given me? BTW, Vunil, Plucky, I have no problems with the term Third World. A rose is a rose….

Let me also say that I would not be upset if Howard Stern or Ted Kennedy had made such comments – that happens all the time. I was upset precisely because I have come to rather like and trust the virtual personality of Tiffany, so it felt as though someone who ought to understand me  wasn’t getting it. As far as I know, in those first two posts we were NOT talking about charity or sympathy, but about construing certain groups of people as criminals, i.e. racial profiling. I read in Tiff’s posts that we should give benefit of doubt to decent black folks, after all they were not third world refugees (hence the term benefit of doubt, which would be valid if we were talking about crime, but not if we were talking of charity or sympathy). BTW, I have NO problems with the term third world refugee.  Nor do I have any problems with the view that chariy begins at home. I do however object strongly to what I read as, third world refugees are likely to be common criminal.
Anyhow, let us please just drop this issue now.

As for the message board, I think we have dual goals of being supportive and yet bringing our own perspective to the discussion. Often these goals conflict. At least for me, the scales automatically tip in favor of being supportive as far as personal discussion is concerned, especially when we are dealing with folks in fragile states of mind.

But when it comes to discussion of political or social issues, I unapologetically throw 100% weight on bringing my perspective out. Judging by the number of angries we got on Katrina discussion, I guess that this is true for most people. As for style, I come from the academia, so it is second nature to me to sift through intellectual ideas, evaluate them, and say, hey, this one looks great, may be that one needs incubating, just play with the possibilities. Intellectual honesty is very, very important to me in these discussions. I intend to be myself and let others be themselves.

Tiff, I would love for you to stay.

Signing off until next week,

Marta

[Marta]

Tiff,

I didn't mean to make you feel hurt or rejected. I was only reacting to what I saw and still do see as a hurtful comment. I can see why it would be a real hot button issue for you too.

What I mean to say is, I love reading your posts because you are always so honest, you always have a point of view, you are warm and articulate, you have a genuine interest in understanding the world around you, and we seem to have moms who are so much like each other.

When I said that I will never respond to your posts again, I was only expressing my hurt, not my rejection of you. 

Hugs, Marta



 

[Portia]

Marta.

Portia, I am from third world and I was deeply hurt when I heard the discussion. It is like being kicked in the belly. It is not something I can explain or wish to explain.

Okay, I think/feel you’re telling me you don’t want to hear from me? Because I did say I could see how you may be very angry. But that maybe you were mishearing or Tif was mis-speaking or some wires were crossed.

Maybe I didn’t express myself well enough? I’m still not sure where I stand with you though. I feel like you don’t want to engage with me. If that’s correct, please just let me know. I don’t wish to try and engage if the other person doesn’t want to – it’s just a waste of time. Hope you see what I mean? On the other hand, if you don’t see what I mean, let me know. Tell me I’m incomprehensible. I don’t mind. I just like a straight answer. Thanks again.

[dogbit]

think that many of our questions will be answered when somebody does a thorough timeline and resource analysis.

Amethyst...You brought up some good points about Mayor Nagin.  I guess in the same vein, I'm wondering why the Governor won't allow the affected counties to be federalized to speed up the relief effort.  However, I don't know what that means and I don't know what the implications of federalizing are..  Things seem to be going much better in New Orleans and it will be fascinating to find out what happened and why during the last eight days or so.   

[vunil]

Whew.  <-- relief from signing on and reading last few posts.

I am glad Tif and Marta are going to stay. 

I have also been thinking that all of the emotion stems from how much we care about those poor victims and how much it hurts to watch what they are going through.  All of us feel that in some core part of our being.  It is the really important thing and what binds us together.  Not to get goopy--  but I really think that is underlying the passion of late on the boards.  And since the really deeper empathy is what we share, we ought to be able to get past the other stuff.  Speaking for myself, too, of course! 

Marta, I think I'm going to avoid third world as a term anyway, just because I agree with you so often it is used in exactly the way you describe.  I can't think of a case where it is used routinely to mean something good or even neutral.  So to keep tabs on my sensitivity I'll drop it.  Anyway, it reminds me of when folks talk about "europe" and "the european sensibility" and "what they think in europe."  It's too broad a term, lumps folks together too much.