Author Topic: Why Do We Come to this Board?  (Read 4941 times)

CeeMee

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Why Do We Come to this Board?
« on: September 12, 2005, 01:50:41 PM »
Different people come to this message board daily or weekly for different things.  I’d be curious to know what brings you to this board?

I asked myself that question and these were some thoughts that came to mind. 

1. Get help with personal problems
2.  Listen to and learn from others
3.  Share my unique or not so unique perspective
4.  Offer suggestions when solicited (and sometimes when not)
5.  Talk with someone in anonymity about the things that aren’t spoken about
6.  Feel a part of a group
7.  Connect with individuals
8.  Watch human interaction in all its forms

Does this sound like a N's list?  It does seem self serving or is this what most people come for.

CeeMee




October

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2005, 04:05:48 PM »
Different people come to this message board daily or weekly for different things.  I’d be curious to know what brings you to this board?

I asked myself that question and these were some thoughts that came to mind. 

1. Get help with personal problems
2.  Listen to and learn from others
3.  Share my unique or not so unique perspective
4.  Offer suggestions when solicited (and sometimes when not)
5.  Talk with someone in anonymity about the things that aren’t spoken about
6.  Feel a part of a group
7.  Connect with individuals
8.  Watch human interaction in all its forms

Does this sound like a N's list?  It does seem self serving or is this what most people come for.

CeeMee


No, it doesn't sound like an Ns list.  I relate to number 7 mostly.  Disconnection is a terrible feeling, and even a small meeting of minds helps against it.  And reconnection works in either direction; whether I help you or you help me doesn't matter; it joins us together in humanity either way.  Result.   8)

miss piggy

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2005, 04:30:02 PM »
Hello Ceemee,

I wonder why you think your list could be an Ns list?  This is NOT an N list!

1.  Get help with personal problems - Ns don't have problems, you do!
2.  Listen to and learn from others - Ns don't listen and learn, they know everything!
3.  Share my unique or not so unique perspective - Ns don't doubt they are unique
4.  Offer suggestions when solicited (and sometimes when not) - Ns issue orders
5.  Talk with someone in anonymity about the things that aren’t spoken about - Ns don't air their dirty laundry
6.  Feel a part of a group - Ns are sharks with little remoras swimming about, they are the group!
7.  Connect with individuals - Ns don't connect, they use
8.  Watch human interaction in all its forms - Ns manipulate human interaction

If this is an N list, then I'm N too.  :shock:  Miss Piggy

CeeMee

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2005, 11:31:39 PM »
Thanks October and Miss P.  I need to have a N check every now and then.  Sometimes my blinders don't let me see what is obvious to others.  I'd be curious to know what either of you might add to this list that I am not thinking of...

CeeMee

Plucky

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2005, 01:49:16 AM »
Hi ceeMee,
I come up here to be nurtured.  I find validation here.  I feel useful to others.  I receive unconditional friendship. 
This is the only place I can get these things.
I guess I'm a
pathetic
Plucky

CeeMee

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2005, 01:50:56 AM »
No Plucky, not pathetic at all, just honest and saying what many of us feel.  Thanks for saying it.

CeeMee

amethyst

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2005, 05:51:27 PM »
Hi ceeMee,
I come up here to be nurtured.  I find validation here.  I feel useful to others.  I receive unconditional friendship. 
This is the only place I can get these things.
I guess I'm a
pathetic
Plucky

(((Plucky))) Ditto....except for the pathetic part.

I agree with all the reasons listed. One reason I am here is for the many "aha!!!" moments. You all help me understand my own journey in a much deeper way and have illuminated areas in my recovery that I need to work on. 

Plucky

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2005, 01:14:07 AM »
Quote
7.  Connect with individuals
Reading this, (and speaking of 'aha!' moments) I realise that I have a fear of connecting with individuals.  While I value the board and really need it, it is the anonymity and the groupness that I feel most comfortable with.  I know that people are messaging a lot to each other, and at the same time I feel left out and relieved that it is not me.  I guess social interaction has always been a challenge for me, and I am at once terrified of messing up in a one-to-one situation, and so honored when anyone seems to be interested in me personally.  So I respond eagerly to any friendship possibility, then turn catatonic, then just sabotage or neglect it until it goes away and the stress with it.
It's been a while since I felt that 'skin torn off' sensation, and I guess it was due!

One thing I noticed in more than one person's post.  It seems to be difficult for some to look anyone in the eye.  Can anyone elaborate?

Sooo not
Plucky

October

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2005, 02:07:23 PM »

One thing I noticed in more than one person's post.  It seems to be difficult for some to look anyone in the eye.  Can anyone elaborate?

Sooo not
Plucky

Hmm.  Thinking out loud for a moment, as far as I recall from years ago, it is the norm for English speakers - I suppose I mean UK English speakers because I am not sure about US ones, to use more eye contact when speaking to someone, but to look away more when listening.  Then when the conversation swaps, the eye contact does as well.  Breaking eye contact is part of the way we give way in conversation to the next speaker, and say, I have finished my turn now.

Hoiwever, I find that when I am talking to a therapist, I can use very little eye contact.  Generally I focus on something; a shoe or a wall or picture or anything.  Then one part of my mind studies that in great detail, while another part does the talking.  It helps me.  Then when we get to a lighter moment, or a joke, I can make eye contact again.  There is a very clear divide.  But therapy is not like normal conversation, where there is a kind of competition for the floor. 

In a competitive environment, I do not push into conversation.  I can sit for hours and say nothing - this comes from having an Nmum who can talk continuously forever, and who doesn't bother with eye contact at all, because she is not about sharing, she is about taking the floor and holding it.  So I would imagine children of Ns would have trouble with 'normal' shared conversation, and be more tentative, less assertive and more easily argued down in a debate.  Not necessarily changing their views, but allowing the louder voice to prevail.  And staring at the floor.


amethyst

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2005, 03:03:06 PM »
Eye-contact, posture, facial expression, sub-verbal and non-verbal cueing are many of the ways we communicate with eachother. I was shocked to find out that at least 70% of our communication is non-verbal. I was also dismayed because I grew up in a home that did not have normal communication, so I knew I had a ton of work ahead of me.  It took me a long time to learn appropriate eye contact, body language, facial expressions, cueing and mirroring. I took a few role-play workshops, which really helped.

For instance, when I talk to someone who is hugging self, sitting with legs crossed, maybe doing something self-comforting like stroking the face or playing the hair, and not looking at me, I know that the person I am speaking with feels threatened and defensive. If I speak to someone that is leaning forward with an open posture and friendly but not overbearing eye contact, I know that the person feels safe in communicating with me. If I speak to someone that is staring at me aggressively, not breaking eye contact, standing with arms akimbo, clenched fists, maybe invading my personal space, I know that I am dealing with someone that has lots of anger.

I know I received conflicting messages about eye contact and was punished and abused for either too much eye contact or too little. How many of us have received messages like "Don't look at me like that! Wipe that expression off your face right now!" followed by a slap or physical punishment? I know I did.  Or,"Look at me when I am speaking to you!" followed by  the parent forcing you to raise your head and look at them? Then if the parent was displeased with the facial expression, another slap or physical punishment. I learned to avoid looking at anyone that I felt was a threat. I also learned to mask what I truly thought and felt with a pleasant non-committal smile.

I discovered in ACOA that most of adult children look much younger than their years. I constantly discovered that someone I thought was 30 was 45, or someone I thought was 40 was 55. It was as if time had stopped for most of us. That youthful demeanor comes from wearing a blank mask most of the time. (Who needs Botox when you come from an abusive home?  :lol:) When ACOAs heal, they begin to get some lines and wrinkles because they start using spontaneous facial expressions such as raising the eyebrows, frowning, or smiling and laughing in a manner that involves the eyes. I will bet that the people in our group here, by and large, look ten to fifteen years younger than our stated age. I am almost 60 and I look about 45 because if I am not with people, my face falls back into the blank mask. I am still working on it.

I think not being able to look at people comes from the same place that not being able to take our space comes from, too. It took me a long time not to hunch over in a defensive posture, what I called my default postion. Once I was able to take my space, my eye contact got much better. 


jordanspeeps

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2005, 09:06:53 PM »

good for you sugarre!

Eye contact with others is something I seriously need to work on.  I just noticed this about myself about two years ago.  In a conversation with someone, I can look at them when they are talking just fine.  But when it's my time to talk, I find myself looking at the wall, in the distance, or in their general direction.  It's always awkward for me when we do make eye contact because that always seems much more profound than whatever subject we're discussing.  Eye contact for me is really tough because I fear the facade I've tried to erect is being seen through or torn down.  Whenever I try to use eye contact with my mother it has a similar effect.  It's like I've seen her naked private parts or otherwise shamed her.  It's ALWAYS uncomfortable.  She is perfectly content for us to have a full few-hour conversation with no real eye contact. I am not.  Sometimes, like in my neighborhood or in new group settings, like my kid's new school, I get the impression that folks regard me as standoffish or even snooty, but it comes from my intense fear of being seen as the dysfunctional/abnormal person.  Most times, this fear proves to be unfounded as people seem to take to me just fine. Even though I fear it, I love to connect with people and really need to work how not to be so ancy in making that type of connection.

And as far as blank expressions go, I am excellent at this.  The closest individual in my life, my hubby, is often stumped when I have this "flat face."   He's often like, "What's that look? or "Are you okay?" when there's no obvious precedent to that look.  He knows that something is up but he can't tell if I'm thinking, or internally fuming, or upset, or hungry or what.  This look or lack thereof can become the source of arguments with my Nmother who thinks I should dignify her conversations with understanding and expressiveness.  Maybe I'm using "flat face" as a weapon or defense mechanism, who knows?

Tif

Bloopsy

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005, 01:07:11 AM »
Eye contact is hard!  Sometimes when I talk to someone I worry about eye contact and just flop! I admit that I thought that you were supposed to maintain eye contact through out the conversation as much as possible or you would be seeming distant. I feel like I have anti-flat face--- mine is always crinkling up. Maybe without all that eye contact it will be less nervewracking!!!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 01:11:08 AM by Bloopsy »

CeeMee

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 02:21:33 AM »
Eyes are the windows to the soul.  I believe that.  Whenever I am feeling insecure, anxious, embarrassed, or just generally negative, natural eye contact becomes impossible.  The eyes avert so one can't see what's going on inside.  That's a sign to me that something is going on in me and I need to deal with it before it festers and grows.  I discovered that a lot of the negativity and anxiety was chemically induced and so just by taking my meds enabled me to resume natural eye contact during conversation.

Learning how to read eyes has served me VERY well.  I knew my husband was extraordinary when I met him just by watching his eyes.  I could see clear to his soul and knew he was everything he presented himself to be.  We've been married for nearly twenty years now. 

Bloopsy, I am so glad you've discovered for yourself what you need to do regarding this male friend who revealed his secret to you.  Your senses are right on.  I understand your fear about the possible reactions he may have at your terminating the relationship but the sooner you do it the.  Keep yourself safe.  Learn how to read the eyes.

CeeMee

Sallying Forth

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2005, 03:47:23 AM »

Bittles who has changed to sugarre since I decided I didn't like dogbit...I think I am progressing! 

Good for you Sugarre. I like the new nick name.
The truth is in me.[/color]

I'm Sallying Forth on a new adventure! :D :D :D

Sallying Forth

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Re: Why Do We Come to this Board?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005, 04:01:09 AM »
For instance, when I talk to someone who is hugging self, sitting with legs crossed, maybe doing something self-comforting like stroking the face or playing the hair, and not looking at me, I know that the person I am speaking with feels threatened and defensive. If I speak to someone that is leaning forward with an open posture and friendly but not overbearing eye contact, I know that the person feels safe in communicating with me. If I speak to someone that is staring at me aggressively, not breaking eye contact, standing with arms akimbo, clenched fists, maybe invading my personal space, I know that I am dealing with someone that has lots of anger.

Can I get your permission to use this as a reference for body expressions? I need some good ones for my writing. I wouldn't use your words exactly but use them for ideas on how to express how the body speaks. Great descriptions! :)

Quote
I know I received conflicting messages about eye contact and was punished and abused for either too much eye contact or too little. How many of us have received messages like "Don't look at me like that! Wipe that expression off your face right now!" followed by a slap or physical punishment? I know I did.  Or,"Look at me when I am speaking to you!" followed by  the parent forcing you to raise your head and look at them? Then if the parent was displeased with the facial expression, another slap or physical punishment. I learned to avoid looking at anyone that I felt was a threat. I also learned to mask what I truly thought and felt with a pleasant non-committal smile.

My bioNfather used eye contact to intimidate. I tried to look away and he would insist that I look right into his eyes. Then he would begin to interrogate me. If I looked away he would grab my chin and hold my head in place. So of course now I have issues with people who attempt to entrain my eyes in a conversation and they don't have to even touch me. That's because they are trying to touch and reach inside me when they haven't been invited.

I always look around the room in therapy and very rarely at my t. At first I used to pick something to focus on but now I just allow my eyes to flit around the room at random. It is safer that way. It's a habit because of dissociation.

Quote
I discovered in ACOA that most of adult children look much younger than their years. I constantly discovered that someone I thought was 30 was 45, or someone I thought was 40 was 55. It was as if time had stopped for most of us. That youthful demeanor comes from wearing a blank mask most of the time. (Who needs Botox when you come from an abusive home?  :lol:)

When I was younger I looked older and now I look younger. At 14 I was given a bottle of fine liquer on board a cross country flight. No one ever bother to ask my age. On my 21st birthday I was carded because I suddenly didn't look old any more. Strange. Stranger the older I got the younger I looked and I think that has to do with being multiple too. All those kiddies inside coming out all the time ... :)
The truth is in me.[/color]

I'm Sallying Forth on a new adventure! :D :D :D