Writing

[tayana]

I've been writing stories, poems, and essays since I was about eight.  I never realized until recently how therapeutic getting all my thoughts onto a page was.  I also didn't realize how many villains were my mother in disguise.  In fiction, I could do things I couldn't do in reality, like eliminate the bad guy.  And I also tended to recreate myself through my characters.  Main characters tend to reflect an aspect of myself, only in the stories, especially early stories, it was an aspect I had no control over, like living at home.

[Anonymous]

http://www.storycircle.org/index.html

[Portia]

....

[tayana]

Thanks for the link, Portia.  It looks very interesting.

[seeker]

Hi Portia and Tayana,

Great sites!  Thank you thank you for posting.   Writers.com has wonderful online courses.  Check it out.

Just to add to Portia's empathy joke:  Another bit of irony is that (at least here in the US) the Dewey Decimal system places the "literary criticism" section right after "archery".  Hmmm.

Thanks again, Seeker

[Portia]

Seeker, thank you. It’s great to see you posting right now. I perhaps have a problem in sometimes looking to this board for my intellectual stimulation. Perhaps that’s a by-product of finding the board and having my eyes opened wider. I oscillate between feeling dumb for not realising where my emotional problems originate, and feeling good that I think I’m learning again.
In the meantime, I’ve been thinking about empathy and what it really means, especially as it seems to be the one major defining quality absent in Ns. Then I thought about compassion. Do you think it is possible to feel empathy without compassion and vice-versa? I think so.

I have trouble with my ancient Chambers’s (sic!) definition:
Empathy: power of entering into another’s personality and imaginatively experiencing his experiences.

I guess I’m coming at this from the point of ‘we can never truly know another’s mind’.
 Is this what severe NPD is like? If it is, can I empathise with NPD? Can anyone?
This is a serious question. I think about this sort of thing, I want to understand.

And if so: do we, as (hopefully) those with the capacity to empathise, really have any moral right to demand anything of NPD sufferers? I guess not.
Sometimes, empathy for NPD will not be a healthy, good thing for the rest of us. And I think here I can admit I’m asking you directly Seeker, what do you think?
Hey, if I search and destroy, maybe there'll be some love left for me? Ah, ain't that sad. But probably true.

[seeker]

Hi Portia,

Boy, just when I was going to sign off I remembered that there was a new post on this half of the board.  And it's addresssed to me!   I'm like a kid, love getting mail. I love writing letters, too, and email is heaven-sent manna for me.

Can't tell, but hope you know the archery thing was just an observation I thought would amuse you and wasn't "aimed" at you, ha ha.  I like what you said about intellectual stimulation.  I think I do the same thing.  I started to write a post just this morning for this board and realized it was turning into an essay about spirituality.  I might post it later after I let it cool.  

I also come here because after all the pain, obsessing, recovery, learning, etc., I just gotta share it.  And I want to help others.  This is the only board I participate on as I am still a 20th century gal and leery of the cyber boogie man (as another poster said).

I'm pretty thrilled to learn that there are people out there like you, Portia, who ponder things like "empathy" and "compassion" etc. etc. and what they really mean for us fellow humans.   It seems like a Catch-22 type of question that you ask (and I'm sorta flattered you wanted to ask me   ]: Is it possible to empathize with someone who does not have the ability to empathize?  

My feeling is the answer is "yes". I can imagine what N would be like, esp. after reading Controlling People.  Just imagine that there are no human beings, only dolls, robots, teddy bears.  Use the phrases "supposed to" and "should" a lot.  See things only in cause-and-effect terms without overtones of morality.  If I get what I want, it's right. Watch the Stepford Wives for a real scare.

This perspective actually really helped me get past my guilt about my nearby N.  Well, if my feelings don't make any difference to her, why am I killing myself?  She's just going to have to find another way to gratify herself.  Why the guilt?  Because I am a compassionate person.

OK, compassion.  I had to look it up in the dictionary for the key piece.  Here it is:

sympathetic consciousness of another's distress together with a desire to alleviate it.

It's that desire to alleviate distress that gets us into trouble.   I think it is possible to be compassionate for Ns because we are conscious of their distress.  They make sure we know when they are in distress!  

Should we act on that compassion towards Ns?  Ew, there's that word "should".  It's totally a judgment call made on a case by case basis, I feel.  My breaking point was realizing my oxygen mask had slipped off and I needed to be there for my kids.  If anything, encounters with Ns force us to prioritize!  Anyway, feeling compassion and having a desire to alleviate distress does not equal acting on that desire.  Of course, resisting this desire can cause a lot of anguish.  It's not very pleasurable to watch someone drown in the rapids all the while they are yelling at you insisting they swim very well thank you and why don't you jump in here and drown with me?

Can we be compassionate towards people we don't like, people who have hurt us?  I don't know.  I think one has to be a pretty spiritually evolved person to pull it off authentically.  The best I can do is say "I don't know what God's plan is for them.  I just know that I am unable to make this a healthy situation for me."  In other words, I can't help and stay healthy.  If I'm having a good day I might even be able to say it/think it without being angry   .

I don't know if I'm responding to everything, Portia...there's a lot in your post to consider!  Oh yeah, I just saw an article on brain research and empathy in the local newspaper.  Really interesting.  Basically a certain area of the brain lights up while empathizing.  I would love to see the fMRI on a full blown narcissist while watching Love Story or Terms of Endearment    Have you read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning?  I really recommend it.  Frankl is a holocaust survivor/psychiatrist who shares a very compelling story and philosophy.

Thanks a bunch for your email.  Maybe we can be philosophy/writing buddies    Ciao for now, Seeker

[seeker]

Hi Portia and Tayana,

I invited another poster into this thread to get her thoughts as well.  We'll see if she tiptoes in...just wanted to give a heads up.  the more, the merrier!  Seeker

[Portia]

Dear Seeker, thank you so much for your kind, compassionate reply! I thought just maybe I was on my way out after my last lengthy post here and to R (nothing to do with R, all to do with me). I might bring aspects of that post here instead. I thought perhaps I was going a little overboard you know? ( Ha ha, over-board: sorry, weak pun I know). It was so refreshing and comforting to see your reply. ((Seeker)). I’m going to ponder this weekend and reply later – you gave much more than 2 cents worth. Think I just saw my first twister (image: hair on end and   ). I’m amazed! Sense of humour is soooo important. Thank you twice and thrice. More later. P

[Anonymous]

interesting BBC articles, and I read a side one http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3461591.stm called 'pain from a woman will hurt less'.

[seeker]

Hi Portia and Guest,

Yes, the BBC article on couples is covering the same research.  Thanks for these links because I was trying to find more!  I posted the US version on a new thread on the Discussion side of the board.  The US article also goes on to talk about research on "playing fair"...A friend often referred to some people (in hindsight I realize these folks were N) as having "a card missing in their computer".  He wasn't too far off the mark!  

Shirley MacLaine, isn't she great?  She seems to take on more than a few roles as the Ridiculous N.  One of my favorite lines is in Steel Magnolias (another film for the empathy research!) is when she says to Olympia Dukakis "You are evil and must be destroyed."  

Jack Nicholson gets the best line in "Terms" when he says:
"It's going to take a lot of drinks..."
Shirley: "I beg your pardon?"
Jack: "It's going to take a lot of drinks to kill all the bugs up your ***"

Put these lines in your quiver of arrows for future Encounters of the N Kind!   Best, Seeker

[rosencrantz]

What a peaceful and pleasantly enjoyable thread.  May I drop by and join in? I have this image of a warm dark room, flames in the fire, cosy armchairs, sitting around.  I'll just slip into that chair over there and sip a cup of tea and listen awhile, if I may.   It's healthy here.
R

[seeker]

Hi Rosencrantz!  

Yeah, this is a "fun" or at least stimulating topic to toss around and look at like a Rubik Cube.  

OK, straps yourselves into your armchairs.  Do any of you read about "near death experiences" or NDEs for short?  I just started reading about them and find them oddly comforting.  I've always strived to uphold the "Kindness is my religion" (Dalai Lama) philosophy but at times feel extremely Pollyanna and/or walked on.  Reading about NDEs and that many who have experienced them strongly feel that love and small acts of love and kindness really do matter is really encouraging to me!  

NDE accounts also match up with my other mantra: "Your dogma ran over my karma"    NDEers survive their experiences with a very nondenominational viewpoint. I attend church, believe in God, was raised in a Christian tradition, but am strongly, almost militantly ecumenical (meaning I believe in the validity of all forms of religion).  In other words, I hate it when theology "runs over" spirituality and the point of it all.  

Phew!  Anyway, one of my reasons for writing this is because I wonder why I don't seek revenge sometimes for the hurts I feel ("you are evil and must be destroyed").  Feel wimpy.  Then feel strong for resisting the urge.  Then feel like I'm kidding myself  

Do any of you watch "Joan of Arcadia"?  It's a really wonderful and, dare I say it? profound US TV show (oxymoron) about a family of a cop dad, artist mom, and three teenagers.  Not sappy like 7th Heaven   .  Real gritty stuff, with God showing up as different strangers on the street or in school to deliver messages/instructions to Joan, the youngest member of the family, who is in high school and wants to be popular.  

Thoughts?    Seeker