Meeting with my parents and T- update .

[miss piggy]

Hi David & all,

Doncha just hate it when the "helping" professionals do more harm than good?  I have two examples of total malpractice: one was a counselor at our school who likes to accost parents in the hallway during dropoff and discuss their children with them in earshot of everyone walking by.  Or wave nondisclosure papers and release forms at them.      Another was a speech & language therapist who admitted that she parked my d in the corner while she wrote notes to other parents!  She couldn't understand why my d was referred to her (nor could I) and thought my d was "playing games" when she couldn't remember certain facts of the story read aloud (er, hel-LOH!  she has a memory problem?)  My H's jaw just dropped during that little pow-wow. 

I would be a little careful about how you handle the follow up with the T.  They aren't supposed to, but some of the really twisted ones will pass along their "difficulties" with patients to other Ts to do the CYA of their own reputation.  Frankly, I would just go find another T after I said what I had to say to Napoleon's idiot.  I might document everything and report it to the board.  I have to think long about that one, if it were me.  But I might do it.  And then I would want to get past the drama after giving my two cents and then get on with finding someone who knows what they are doing. 

David, I'm glad you're p*ssed.  I think everyone here has said one way or another they are/were angry.  So you need your turn.  Take as long as it takes.  At least you know what it's all about.  I'm still beating a dead horse over here myself.     MP

[Marta]

Vunil:
basically allowed her to  abdicate responsibility for the situation that she at least in part brought about.   Especially when she let your father say, in effect, "if it's just what David thinks, then it doesn't count."  At that point she should have really stepped up to the plate, and instead she ran away.

Vunil, great point!

Mudpuppy:
Just make sure you don't lose your own soul trying to hook the b*****ds with your horn of justice.

Seriously seconded.

David,

It seems to me that by going to small claims court, you are setting out hoping for a victory in another losing battle. If you wish to take up an issue with your T, small claims court is not the correct avenue, but some kind of T board is. Once you write her this letter about refund and small court blah, you damage your chances of going to a T board. Although I am not a lawyer, as I see it, legally speaking the issue is not that she did not deliver the services, she did -- she showed up for the sessions, and you voluntarily continued with them, up until two weeks ago you thought she was helping you -- but rather she engaged in malpractice. So it is not a refund that you are entitled to for non-deliverance of services, but rather punitive damages for malpractice. Who will decide that she engaged in malpractice? You’ll need an expert witness for that. You’ll need evidence other than “he said-she said.” For all you know, your parents may be called as factual witnesses from her side. I see your chances of being affirmed in the small claims court very slight, and decent with a malpractice board. I see that you probably have no what idea what going to small claims court entails for a case of this kind.

May not get it but it will be some fun trying.

You are demeaning and devaluing what happened to you, by making it some ploy for cheap fun. Why do you want to take her to small claims court? What is the probability that you could win? If the judge dismisses your case and says that there was no evidence of abuse, how would you feel? Would you sue the judge? If not, won’t your anger keep growing? I ask these questions not because I have a shred of sympathy for the idiot T, no, I want her to be accountable for what she did to you, or I have any problems with your anger. But I care about you and what you are doing to yourself. Don’t think that this advice is coming from a book either; I’ve learnt the hard way myself. Of course you should do it your way, and I have no problems with you expressing your anger; I only think that you are going to end up hurting yourself further if you are not careful about how you let the heat out. The only thing some of us may be trying to tell you is that sometimes what feels like “our way” is not really our way; it is “their way,” or rather the way we learnt to cope as best as we could with the twisted realities of our N families.

If it is “righteous affirmation” that you are looking for, as Will has beautifully put it, then you are not going to find it in small claims court. May be you should find the correct avenues for this affirmation; stop looking in places where you won’t get it.

What did the slave owner say to Maximus? That winning with the sword was not enuf; if you really want to win the prize, learn to play the crowds and win the public. Do you know what it takes to win the prize you want? Do you even know what the prize is?

[Sallying Forth]

She retreated into some psychobabble about there being no real truths and that life was all just personal interpretations and perceptions,blah,blah.
My Father jumped up and looked like he had just won the Lottery and said," So this is all just about how David views things?" More psychobabble from T who was retreating fast. My Parents smelled a bloody victory and stared ranting about how THEY had been manipulated and this was all about how my brain had been damaged from too much booze and so on. My T was beaten and continued to babble on about how the long term objective was to 'bring us all together with love and healing'. More sentimental slop!! She just fell apart .
One exhausted David.

       

This is horrible David!

Your t acted like an abuser and joined your parents in belittling and berating you. Shame on her!

I am so sorry you went through such abuse of power by a t. The woman should have her licensed revoked. Despicable!

What you described is the typical behavior of an abuser. I've heard it all before with my h and his favorite words being my perception. What that does is take the heat off him. That is what your t did. She took the heat off herself and placed you on the hot seat.

I don't know if you are in the U.S. and what type of counselor she is. There are regulations in the U.S. which therapists must follow. I posted a web site about that (down below). Check it out and do follow through with reporting this abusive therapist and seeking a refund.

((((((((((((((David)))))))))))))))


Here is the web site I posted in another topic on this forum:

http://www.advocateweb.org/hope/costofabuse.asp

it covers more on sexual exploitation yet has lots of resources.

[Sallying Forth]

Hi ladies, a couple of points - Yes you gals are always trying to get us guys to express our feelings -does that request NOT include anger? Maybe some gals just really mean only affection,and those nasty negative emotions like anger are taboo. Ladies, ya gotta except the whole enchilda !
Plucky, I appreciate your concern and your comments but I am NOT a bully and I do not see how suing a bad practitioner is even close to bullying. I need to do this my way (when the fire has died down a bit). I cannot just stand by and let abuse happen to me any more .It gives it license to prosper. Your way seems to be more retreated and passive. Do it your way if that is what makes sense to you .It makes NO sense to me. That way is the way of the beaten child and that was how it was for me as a kid -I don't have to take this shit any more in silence.

I am feeling depressed and tired now so I need to go watch Maximus( after I go to my AA)..Talk soon

David P.

((((((((((((((((David)))))))))))))))

Your anger is justified and needed in order to take action against the injustice and abuse your t inflicted upon you.

Go for it, David!!!

[David P]

Thanks to all the respondents thus far.
My lawyer said that Small Claims court is a tough call because the Judge does not have the skills to decide the merits of the case. He suggested ,like Marta, that we go for malpractise. However that requires that I be seen by two of my T's colleagues.I can imagine the outcome right now. Maybe I am just being pessimistic because I am tired but I need to back off and at least wait and read T's letter to me which should be in the mailbox tomorrow.
I would not have the energy to continue if it were not for you guys and your supportive strength.
I am still keen to continue with the original plan to 'confront' my parents. I just need to vent and have done with my impacted pain. It needs to come out one way or another. Maybe a letter would do the trick? I think that Longtire ( ?) suggested that approach.

The AA program is so cool. Kinda confronting in a gentle but measured way. I like the phrase ,"defects of character" Not politically correct by today's standards, but right on the money nonetheless. I wonder what I am going to do when I get to the step about making amends? I guess that in some ways I have hurt my parents too ( along with several oher people) Do I need to make amends to my parents? I will if that is what the program requires. However I have not talked to my sponsor yet about THEM. I am still taking my inventory step so I have a ways to go.
NIce people there, kind of eccentric .I like that.

David P. ( going to Block Buster fora nice DVD)

[Sela]

Hi all:

David, if I had a therapist and she behaved the way yours did, after spending so much time preparing with me for that confrontation, taking my money, pretending to support me, and then "wussing" out, as you put it, when the day finally came......I'd feel very angry too, I think, and disappointed, and betrayed, and insulted, and tricked, and belittled, and ripped off, and distrustful of therapists??, and abused!!!  Your feelings are valid, whatever they are.

Ofcoure, you will express them as you choose, to the therapist directly, in writing, by sueing her, by reporting her to authorities, or indirectly by painting the fence, jogging 5 or 10 miles, or by pounding on some bongo drums for a period of time (my fav  .  The thing is.....it's ok and necessary to express/release your feelings and you get to choose whether you wish to do that in a way that does, or does not, cause harm to anyone else.  That's the beauty of choice.  We all get to live with our choices eh ( ).

  Sela

PS:  Plucky!  

....anger is one of the early stages and you have to pass through it.  Or, you can get stuck there.

Thankyou for putting it into words like that Plucky.  I think you have really made a very valid point above and I am so proud of you for the growth and healing you have accomplished to be able to share this wisdom.   Way to go Plucky!

[Plucky]

Maybe Stormchild and David had a valid point and it sounded as if I was trying to deny David his feelings, and counsel him to accept the aggregious behaviour of his T and just swallow it down.  On the contrary, I share his feelings and he should feel them fully for as long as they go on.  David's future actions are a different issue and can have their own fallout.  I should not have used the word bully.   I think Marta and Sela expressed what I was thinking in much better terms.  I was just concerned that David allow his anger to start controlling his thoughts and actions.  I know all about that.  I lived like that for years. Lost years, from my perspective now.  Years when my anger propelled me into actions that were eventually destructive to me.  When my anger became a defensive wall that I used to keep from really having to feel the hurt.  And a barrier from being hurt any more, by getting really close to anyone.   I don't wish that on anyone.   In my clumsy way I was trying to keep David from this.
Maybe I'm too close to this and putting to much of myself into it.  David is a separate person after all. 
Plucky

[Sallying Forth]

I am still keen to continue with the original plan to 'confront' my parents. I just need to vent and have done with my impacted pain. It needs to come out one way or another. Maybe a letter would do the trick? I think that Longtire ( ?) suggested that approach.
David P. ( going to Block Buster fora nice DVD)

Hi David,
I used a letter of confrontation for my Nbro, Nmother and NishFather. Each one got a letter. They simply covered each other's *sses and told me I was crazy and we had a perfectly normal family. To this day that is their story.

[David P]

Thanks again guys, I do understand two things -
Firstly that this anger in me has to be expressed. Hopefully in a way that does not damage me in the doing.

Secondly that there are always seen  unforseen consequences of our actions. I accept that a confrontation is the most aggressive form of expression and also that way danger lies.
However, some of the replies on this board are predicated on a projected belief ( on the part of the author) that I should 'speak gently'or not at all  because that will smooth the path to future reconciliation with my parents and eventually we will all be good pals. I do not want a relationship with them.
I have tried all that I can think of to placate them, appease them and seek their approval over the years. It made them WORSE and it made me a 'people pleaser' and it did not accomplish my objective. The only way that my parents and I can be reconciled is if THEYwant it and are willing to do the work to bring that about . There are NO signs of that. My parents are dangerous people and  I need to treat them as such.

Some T's are also dangerous as I found out.
Talk soon. David P.

[Sallying Forth]

Thanks again guys, I do understand two things -
Firstly that this anger in me has to be expressed. Hopefully in a way that does not damage me in the doing.

Secondly that there are always seen  unforseen consequences of our actions. I accept that a confrontation is the most aggressive form of expression and also that way danger lies.

However, some of the replies on this board are predicated on a projected belief ( on the part of the author) that I should 'speak gently'or not at all  because that will smooth the path to future reconciliation with my parents and eventually we will all be good pals. I do not want a relationship with them.

I have tried all that I can think of to placate them, appease them and seek their approval over the years. It made them WORSE and it made me a 'people pleaser' and it did not accomplish my objective. The only way that my parents and I can be reconciled is if THEY want it and are willing to do the work to bring that about . There are NO signs of that. My parents are dangerous people and  I need to treat them as such.

Some T's are also dangerous as I found out.
Talk soon. David P.

Hi David,
My Nmother, Nbro and NishFather are all dangerous people. I confronted them and then stopped seeing and talking to them. This is one thing my current t and I agreed on but my N-t didn't. She in fact encouraged contact which made my therapy precarious.

I should have added to my post that confrontation was a very important part of my healing process even if I never got a confession from them. Actually the more they defended themselves the more it proved they did the things I said they did. I also set boundaries at the time of my confrontations. And with my Nmother I have confronted her in person, on the phone and by letter. Not one of them has ever been to therapy nor would they think of going to therapy. They never will change and that is one of the things which makes them dangerous. The other is my Nparents sold me to my perpetrators and my bioNfather. Anyone who would do something like that is a dangerous person and never to be trusted.

One year I sent my Nbrother a nasty birthday card which I never regret sending.

"Money's tight
"Times are hard
"Here's your
"F***ing Birthday card!"

And another card which said,

"Jesus loves you
"The rest of us
"Think you are
"An *sshole!"

It was a very creative way to express my anger. The tone of my confrontation letters were very accusatory and not nice. It was my way of letting go of my anger and the relationship once and for all.

My NFather sent me a letter after the confrontation letters telling me that if I was "vitriolic" then I shouldn't write any more letters to family members. His response only spurred me on and that is the year my brother received those two cards above. My h and I made jokes about the word "vitriolic" for several years. The word "vitriolic" is now an inside joke in our family.

I no longer have that anger towards them because I was allowed to express it.

I found other ways to express my anger as well. I used to throw dishes and glasses from garage sales against my cement-bricked basement wall. I loved the shattering sound the glasses and dishes made. I would scream at my perpetrators while breaking them. One time an old toilet was removed from a bathroom. It was taken down into the basement where I took a sledge hammer to it, screaming at my parents and perpetrators. I wore protective clothing and goggles so I wouldn't harm myself. Very therapeutic!

[mudpuppy]

I have tried all that I can think of to placate them, appease them and seek their approval over the years. It made them WORSE and it made me a 'people pleaser' and it did not accomplish my objective.

Amen to that. Perfectly phrased. Its amazing how easily they manipuate us when we look back isn't it?

On the topic of suing your T. I have a lot of experience in court.
I'm there right now as a matter of fact.
Is your T insured? You'd be surprised how many professionals are not these days.
If she is, you can no doubt squeeze some dough out of the insurance company just to make you go away.
If she isn't I would leave her be and move on. Unless you can find somebody to do it on contingency (not likely I imagine) you're looking at at least 30 grand out of pocket and frankly not much chance of winning. Saying your abuse was only 'perceived' is wrong, insensitive, back stabbing, infuriating (insert adjective of choice) but malpractice is a very high bar to clear, especially when you're dealing with an area as vague as her opinion of your perceptions. You'd be throwing good money after bad IMO.

Actually I suggested the letter approach. Having many pointless shouting matches over the years which resulted in nothing more than a permanently throbbing vein in my temple and the image of my smirking antagonist etched in my brain, I have found the letter approach more satisfying. Keep in mind you must only speak the truth and not be overly hostile. Letters have a very long shelf life, so don't say anything you can't back up or anything you hoped you hadn't said.
As you've stated, the purpose of the letter is not to change them, that's not in the cards. Its to vomit the poison they have inflicted on you back out. Only when you do that (it often takes a lot of tries) can you get past the anger and resentment, which is just more one form of (indirect)control they exercise over you. When the anger begins to be replaced by pity at just how pathetic and unhappy they are and what a waste their lives have been, then you're on your way to really taking control of your own life. Its only at that point that you could ever think of making amends either. Its pretty tough making amends to someone you hate. Not so hard to someone who is just pitiful.
Congrats on AA. Hope you stick it out.

mudpup

[mum]

Well, David, I clearly missed the mark.  I am sorry my comments about the therapist were not supportive and I certainly see that they were not. My attempts at seeing why the therapist would have chosen to do what she did caused me to miss the more important big picture. You know your story, I don't.

I realize that where you are right now is simply where you need to be.  Like Plucky, though, I understand what harboring so much anger did to me. I acknowledge the need to go through it, but as a habitual lifestyle, it almost ruined me.
I also see, daily, what being and staying an angry man is doing to my ex husband. And although I bless whatever path you are on, I'm still sorry there is so much pain for you. I'm sure you will get through it somehow. Learning is such a personal experience....so best of luck, truly.

I hope you find the healing you need in whatever choices you make.

PS: from personal experience with a never ending court battle, I would echo Mudpups note to take care.  There is a lot of misery to be spread around in the courts and very frankly, the attorneys are the only ones who come out ok in the end.(unless you don't care/have tons of expendable income...in which case: carry on).

[vunil]

Just a quick question David-- why are you still feeling your anger hasn't been expressed?  Seems to me that it has, but maybe I'm missing a part of the story.  I have a theory about what is going on-- that you are expecting anger to lead to a personal catharsis, and it isn't, so you are assuming it hasn't been expressed enough.  That makes perfect sense and I see why you feel that way.

Anger is really complicated, and I disagree that it is always something that builds up like lava and has to explode or else.  I don't think anger always leads to a catharsis.  Sometimes getting angry seems to create more anger, instead of less (there is a lot of interesting research on this, for those of us geeks who read such stuff)-- for example, see http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/nytimes.htm 

This is not to invalidate anyone's experience that "venting" worked for them, but just to suggest other possibilities.  The catharsis that anger is supposed to bring-- it just doesn't always bring it.  Like others on this list I have found anger to be a bit addictive in the past, a safe place to stay for awhile when other emotions and other things I needed to be working on were too scary.  It may sound funny to call anger "safe" but sometimes it is, or at least was for me.   I really like the book "Dance of Anger" on this subject, in case you are open to another book.

I promise I'm not trying to be invalidating.  Something is still worrying me, that's all.  It may be the same thing worrying Plucky.  It seems like our duty as a community to point out when we are worried, as well as to validate and encourage particular planned behaviors.  I was sort of surprised so many people encouraged suing the therapist or otherwise getting revenge on her-- I think what she did was dimwitted but I guess I am more cynical and assume that her level of dimwittedness is pretty par for the course. If I sued people at her level of incompetence in my life I'd be in court all day.   Maybe her letter with clear things up.  I hope it provides *some* clarity, at least, one way or the other.

[Sallying Forth]

Anger is really complicated, and I disagree that it is always something that builds up like lava and has to explode or else.  I don't think anger always leads to a catharsis. Sometimes getting angry seems to create more anger, instead of less (there is a lot of interesting research on this, for those of us geeks who read such stuff)-- for example, see http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/nytimes.htm

I can certainly relate to this. I thought my anger towards my perpetrators would go on forever. It did for many years. I am finally dealing with sadness and grieving. It took so long to get here that I thought I was stuck. I wasn't. I've learned that the grief process is a journey and it takes as long as it takes.


From the article you mentioned ""They keep trying to get this emotional release, but it never happens," he said."

Interesting, I didn't try to get an emotional release from throwing things nor did I get one. I didn't do it for catharsis. I did it for the sound it made. I believe the sound was more important than the act.

I think this article may be true for some people though. I don't believe everything I read either, especially from sociologists, psychologists and psychiatrists.   In my experience it didn't happen. However each person is wired differently so it could be detrimental to someone else.

I've actually received my emotional release through writing my books, drawing and journaling. Expressing myself artistically has been very cathartic and at the same time relaxing. I've done more healing in the last 4 years since I began writing my books than I did in the 13 years before that.

[David P]

Vunil, maybe there are some inherent ( or conditioned) differences in the way the women and men view anger and its expression. Many times I have seen and heard women avoid expressing their anger because they believe that,to do so, will damage their relationships. It appears to be that many women almost 'worship' their relationships with others and place them as holy and noble, precious and also fragile.I have seen women fiercely protect and shield abusers and abusive relationship,presumably so they can feel like they are 'connected' to someone else and, in so doing,they can feel as if they are not alone in the world. I have detected that undercurrent in some of the posts on this forum.
Men,(I think) on the other hand are not so compelled to 'having to have' relationships just to be connected to others. I think that because we have a lower 'need' to remain connected to others,we are more willing to express our anger and risk possible alienation.
I guess,ultimately, that our challenge is to express our rage,anger and resentments in a way that causes as little damage to those whom we wish to nurture ,starting with oneself.

I do not expect instant healing or cleansing from an overt expression of my anger. I see anger and it's resultant- resentment, as similar to the pus inside a boil. The pus needs to be expeled and only then can the natural healing begin.

Just a thought for the moment
 
David P.