Author Topic: Loneliness is painful isn't it?  (Read 5793 times)

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2006, 04:00:53 AM »
((((((((Selkie)))))))))

Thinking of you hon… Somehow society seems to teach us that loneliness isn’t a good thing.  However I beg to differ… there are times when it is very empowering as it can give you a chance to focus on yourself.  Sometimes being around people can make you feel more lonely (well me anyway!), but on the whole I prefer to be around people.  I don’t really enjoy being in the house on my own now, which is strange because at one time I loved it.  So I can hop on a train and go somewhere for the day, go shopping, or go to an art gallery or a library.

I feel sometimes it seems that it’s a no win situation… we can feel lonely at home and we can feel lonely with friends.  Does it mean something?  I honestly don’t know, but I am aware that our feelings are very real and valid and we do have the power to change this… even if it’s just going out for a walk (or hopping on the tube to go to a different part).  I feel that big cities/towns are lonely places anyway because everyone is always so preoccupied with something else.

Take care of yourself Selkie

H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

Marta

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2006, 06:27:23 AM »
Selkie, meditation really helped me i feeling centred and finding the strength to be alone. Marta

Chicken

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2006, 06:52:43 AM »
Thank you so much for replying, after a good nights sleep, it's so nice to log on and see all your replies!
As always, this place is a comfort and a support.  Thank you all for keeping it that way.

Those replies have been very helpful...just knowing there are others out there that feel the same.  When you feel like this, you feel like you are the only one in the world who is in this place.  I really like the idea of meditation and keeping a "thankful" journal... 

It's funny, but what triggered yesterday's bout of lonliness was a conversation with my flatmate.  All day I was really happy and comfy in my flat, and really looking forward to a day in pottering about in my flat...  (I had the full day off)

So my flatmate starts talking about going on a date that evening and started asking about me and my lovelife situation.  Well, I've never really had a conversation about that stuff with him before...  anyway, I started to get really defensive about it, and if I was a fly on the wall looking at myself I would have said "WOW look at the subtext" I told him about the type of boyfriends I had been used to (ie. assholes) and he didn't respond, then he said "Just get out there" and I started feeling angry (I didn't show it) and now I am catching myself saying to myself:  I hate him (my flatmate) and I am not going to talk to him again!!!!

I find myself wanting to have that conversation again so I can be relaxed and say:  "well it's only been four months since my last relationship so I like to chill out by myself before meeting the next, and when the time is right, I'll go out and strut my stuff"  then have a nice chuckle at myself and be all relaxed about it...

From that encounter, I put words into his mouth also...  in the conversation I had with him, there was nothing to suggest that he said this, but this is what I imagined he said, check this out:  "Selkie, you are a loser, who is unattractive and tainted, you are a loner and a freak who cannot find a boyfriend, and when you do, he is an asshole, you must have a lot of issues"
I feel like having my friends around now, just to show him that I have friends!

Why do I care so much about what people think?   How can this conversation so much power over me to ruin my lovely night in! 

Plucky

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2006, 11:12:28 PM »
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Why do I care so much about what people think?   How can this conversation so much power over me to ruin my lovely night in! 

Selkie, I'm so sorry your good time was ruined!
But this is not about what people think....you said he didn't actually say all the things that started running through your mind.  They came from somewhere else.  The usual place.  The conversation only touched on the topic that set in motion that damning locomotive that roared through your head all night.   Crushing your fun and your peace.

Somewhere, somewhen, someone installed these thoughts in your head.  Taught them to you.  You know when and who it was.
It's a matter of getting to the root of it and clearing out the rot.

Your flatmate might be labouring under the misconception that all people are better off in relationships.  I really have a hard time thinking he believes those, or any, awful things about you.  They are so obviously false, even the person who taught you those lies knows better.  Perhaps you ought to give your mate the benefit of the doubt.

Pottering about in your flat is much preferable to hanging about in a pub, smelling of old lager, breathing secondhand smoke, and chatting up any old drunken lout!  (Am I dating myself?)

Plucky

spyralle

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2006, 07:15:43 AM »
Hey Selks,

As ususal we find ourselves in the same place again.  I too am deep in loneliness at the moment and though I know it is where i should be I feel so strange.  I know just what you mean about that disconnected feeling.  I feel the same.  When I am with people I am there but not there at the same time.  i am unable to touch them somehow.  It's like I have an invisible wall.  i am shocked to find that I don't want people any more and feel safe in my own space even though I hate it...

I think though that the lesson on loneliness is to be in a different place with ourselves.  To place clear boundaries around ourselves and to somehow lose that desperate need that we carry that allows other people to do what they do.  I'm not really sure how to get from this place to that one though.  Are you still in therapy.  I have a feeling that you said somewhere that you had stopped.  I am finding it really useful at the moment.  I just feel safe there somehow.  I'm a ware that I am rambling a bit with no real answers or purpose but I guess that's where I am right at this minute.  I just wanted you to know that you are not alone.....

Lots of love

Spyralle xxxxxxx

Hopalong

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2006, 09:58:50 AM »
Hi Spy,
Why is deep loneliness where you should be?
This sounds more like depression...

((((Spyralle))))

Hops
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mum

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2006, 10:43:51 AM »
Hi, Selkie.
I think we are trained in many cultures to hide/run/find ways to fix any pain. Thus we tend to avoid learning from it.
I am lumping loneliness into the larger title of pain here.
I learned quite a bit about pain (including loneliness) and healing for me was to really look at it, instead of try  to get away from it, fill it up, or otherwise change how I felt.  It IS how I felt. It's not BAD. I stopped labeling things as BAD or GOOD. It just IS. When I take away the judgement, even of my own feelings, then I can step away, become an observer of myself, if you will, and it becomes less volatile, or toxic. It just becomes interesting. It's not that I stop FEELING the emotion, I just stop trying to get out of it, maybe just for one little moment at a time....then more and more. Have you ever heard "that which you resist, persists"?

My experience with traditional counseling is that it tends to focus on what has gone wrong and healing that place by first uncovering every little piece of grit that makes it up. I understand why this kind of therapy seems overwhemingly painful. Although I think it's important, I don't think I would be healing so well if that's all I did.
I have another counselor/mentor who has helped me with a different approach, not so much to get me to understand WHY I hurt, (which she also did, but not endlessly) but to help me to create what I do want from life, and how that really happens.

I also read a million books, but there are two books that, although I didn't (and probably still don't) understand completely, led me to a fresh perspective on  things.
One is: "The Power of Now" by Ekhart Tolle.
The other is "When things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron.

Pema in particular (I would read anything she writes because she is a wonderful writer and very funny and compassionate) helped me to see how useful pain is, and how getting away from pain, as had been my pattern, did not allow me to analyze why it was there, and how to learn from it. So what I see happened was that by getting away from my pain so quickly (although it felt like an enormously LONG period of time while I was in it).....I never learned what it was there to tell me.....so it kept coming back. And I kept trying to get away from it. And traditional counseling, although we LOOKED at the pain, seemed to never move into any options....just digging the scabs off time after time...seeing mistakes, and pathology, instead of acceptance of a divine plan or path.....and how the pain could be part of that.
It's only when I stopped running and accepted that I HURT! It's PART of me and my path in life....and that it's ok. I actually embraced the pain.........that I started to see why it was there.

Pain is inevitable. We are human. I feel it with great regularity, but I am getting better and better at figuring out WHY I feel it and how I get to USE it to claim my power of CHOICE. Because I have a choice in my MIND as to how I view pain and happiness, I get to master it, not the other way around. Tolle has an interesting way of expressing this "other self" we tend to see... this choice of every moment we have. Actually, I would recommmend reading the little abridged version of "the Power of Now" first...it's not so difficult to navigate.

Pain exists where we are attached to something (that is or that isn't) but it isn't meant to be habitual or a lifestyle.........  When I really GOT INTO the MUCK of it all....and just accepted that this pain IS, then I almost without effort started to see choices.  When we think we have no options, that when loneliness or pain seems overwheming.  But FEEL it, stay still in it a bit, maybe stop trying to fill the void....just feel it and be patient. The sky will open, the sun will shine, you will see a choice.
And with a choice, you will find your way.

And your way may well be medication, therapy, artistic expression or any combination of things. There is not just one way. But just be sure it's not what you've always done....because we all know what doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is........

As far as the artist connection....I do agree (as an artist) that FEELING life, very deeply, is something we do. But I think we have as much choice as anyone to make a choice as to our feelings. My husband feels and expresses sadness so deeply, and he is a brilliant musician as well, but he is still the happiest person I know.... does that make sense? I am still learning from him how to embrace what I had labeled "bad" emotions  (scary stuff for me), but he is fearless. He feels it fully and moves on... I still tend to want to "think happy" (denial) instantly. I am still learning.
I DO think Van Gogh would have been just as wonderful a painter without having been so tormented.....he just may have sold some paintings while he was alive.

Chicken

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2006, 06:55:16 AM »
Hi Gang, thank you for your replies...

I didn't think I have a problem being alone, it's just that I think other people think I am a loser and that I am a wierdo or a loner or God knows what else.  I feel like i need to justify staying in, whereas it should be my business.

When I say being alone, I don't mean constantly.  I hang out with friends at least 2 times a week as well as doing 40+ hours of work. I socialise outside of the flat always.  My flat is just for me.

I may be projecting my thoughts onto my flatmate though, which kinda makes me question:  "Do I feel that way about myself?"
if so, why don't I own it?  Why project it onto someone else?
Then I get all caught up in:  What are my thoughts and what are someone elses?  Is everything I assume someone else thinks a projection of mine?  so then i just drop it cuz it makes my brain fry...

I live by other people though, I have always done that.  They rule my life.  Whenever I make a stand or try to be assertive, I start feeling bad about myself.  I feel that others don't like me when I do that...

Spyralle, I gave up counselling that last time.  I feel the need to go again, but don't want to make a commitment to a weekly thing.  I need it a bit looser than that.  I found someone new who I haven't yet gone to see.  It's a man this time, which really scares me.  I think it may bring up a lot of things but it could also potentially ruin me.  I have a thing about men...  I become their puppet


Chicken

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2006, 06:57:30 AM »
Sorry just an after thought:

For those of you who know about projection or transference, do you project/transfer parts of you, you do not accept?

Hopalong

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2006, 10:23:00 AM »
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[when I]...just accepted that this pain IS, then I almost without effort started to see choices.  When we think we have no options, that when loneliness or pain seems overwheming.  But FEEL it, stay still in it a bit, maybe stop trying to fill the void....just feel it and be patient. The sky will open, the sun will shine, you will see a choice.... And with a choice, you will find your way.

Mum, this is a wonderful summary of Chodron and also of Victor Frankl. I haven't read Tolle's book in too many years to remember but you make me want to read it again. This seems to be what's at the heart of meditation, too...something my anxiety always fights with, but I've begun the tiniest practice, in a Wednesday evening Vespers service. Sharing the stillness w/people I trust has made it better.

Selkie, with this kind of honesty I think you CAN heal. It is painful to read but under the pain is a very great strength. You are naming it, describing it, and pulling no punches about how real this feeling is:

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I think other people think I am a loser ....  Is everything I assume someone else thinks ... I live by other people ....  I feel that others don't like me ....


About your new counselor, imo this is also a brave and wise choice:

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It's a man this time, which really scares me.  I think it may bring up a lot of things .... I have a thing about men ....
Your flat-mate's male, you mentioned...
(I didn't quote the rest of it because I believe it is your drive toward wholeness and emotional healing--letting the stuff be brought up--that drives this wise choice, and the fear of ruination is old stuff...)

Was curious about one thing: 
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... don't want to make a commitment to a weekly thing.  I need it a bit looser... men...  I become their puppet
.
Would it be the puppet strings you want to be looser? Could you be setting it up that this male counselor will be like all the other men you have felt helpless against? If he's skilled and trustworthy, could it serve you better to really commit, weekly, to stay in weekly as long as it takes no matter what stuff comes up, so you can finally become free of these feelings that you are not worth anything?

I believe in that bright future for you. I believe it because so many people on this board have healed from so many staggering obstacles. I believe you can too.

And lastly, "weird" is another one of those words we use to beat ourselves up with. I hope you'll ask yourself to fill a page of writing with positive things about yourself and read it aloud to yourself twice a day. Even when it feels like lying, even when it feels absurd. I think you need to regroove those voices in your brain...and I know it can be done. What do you have to lose but fear and pain?

You deserve whatever effort, help, energy, and time it takes. You are the most creative thing.

Hopalong



"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

spyralle

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2006, 05:17:35 PM »
Hops,

I guess if we are in deep loneliness and we survive it then maybe we realise that it is not as terrifying as we thought it was xxxx

Selkie,

I have been doing a lot about projection in therapy.  You can project both good and bad parts of yourself.  For example....  My ex N projected his bad suff onto me little by little unitl I became so drenched in his crap that my own light went out.  It was like he gave me all the heavy suitcases that he didn't want to carry and then the person that he fell for was obscured by his own s*it.  Of course then he also felt like they weren't his any more so he cut me loose without a second thought thinking that he had got rid of the stuff he hated about himself.  All in the sub conscious of course. 

You are soooooo not a loser,...  What orientation is your new therapist.  Mine is a psychotherapist so she works psychodynamically.  She explains projection very well. 

Spyralle xxxxx


mum

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2006, 10:02:56 AM »

I have been doing a lot about projection in therapy.  You can project both good and bad parts of yourself.  For example....  My ex N projected his bad suff onto me little by little unitl I became so drenched in his crap that my own light went out.  It was like he gave me all the heavy suitcases that he didn't want to carry and then the person that he fell for was obscured by his own s*it.  Of course then he also felt like they weren't his any more so he cut me loose without a second thought thinking that he had got rid of the stuff he hated about himself.  All in the sub conscious of course.
Quote

Holy cow......this is just a great explanation......SO much what went on between my exN and me.

spyralle

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2006, 05:41:52 PM »
I just want to hug mum (((((((((((((((((((mum)))))))))))))))))))))...  You gave me so much support when I needed it I'm so glad that I finally got to say something that was useful to you x


Plucky

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2006, 12:41:32 AM »
Quote
I live by other people though, I have always done that.  They rule my life.  Whenever I make a stand or try to be assertive, I start feeling bad about myself.  I feel that others don't like me when I do that...
Hi Selkie,
I know what you mean by this.  I think you have to try to let go of wanting to be liked.  It is very hard to change your mind to decide that others do actually like you, even if that is the case, if you have the deep-seated idea that people don't like you.  I have that myself.  So all I could do, is to stop caring so much about those people and their opinions, and decide that it really doesn't matter if they like me or not.  I have to like myself.

I still have social problems but mainly, I am happy with myself.  I am so close to me - it's important that I like me!   I'm always here! I hear everything I think!  I know me better than anyone!  So my opinion is more important than any relative stranger.

I still have days when I feel sort of paranoid and that others don't like me.    But I try to remember that my perception on this is not accurate, and this helps keep me from getting too far down into it.  I try to argue back with myself that I am probably imagining things.  There are relatively few people who dislike anyone just for expressing an opinion or showing some backbone.  Chances are, you are imagining things as well.

Don't know if any of this is helpful, but I'm trying to show the friendship I feel for you in my clumsy way.   May you feel better!
Plucky

Chicken

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Re: Loneliness is painful isn't it?
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2006, 06:11:57 AM »
Hi Plucky, thanks
I do get obsessed with being liked, you're right.  Sometimes, you have to pay a price to be liked...  like you have to agree with people all the time, listen to them bitch about someone who you may like, let them walk over you, generally remain voiceless...  I am always liked up until the point I get sick of having no back bone, then I start to reveal that I have, and I start to think people don't like me so I act differently towards them (thinking they don't like me) and I feel that they act differently towards me, it may beself fulfilling prophecy...   but I can't live with the assertive me who has a mind of her own.  I just want to be myself and be liked.