Author Topic: Standing up  (Read 2974 times)

longtire

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Standing up
« on: October 09, 2005, 11:27:41 PM »
Well, I have only been responding here for a while.  I'm overdue on a good post.  We'll see how good this one turns out.  I won't let myself edit.  You'll see why in a while.

I finally replied to my wife on a matter that's been hanging over my head.  She paid a huge markup on tickets and is taking my daughter to see a broadway play out of town on her birthday.  Now, besides setting all this up without telling me, she sent me an EMail telling me that she wanted me to pay for one of the tickets.  Did I mention that I wasn't even told until it was a done deal and wasn't invited.  To be sure, my daughter is very excited to see this, but even in my worst hopeless depression I'm not paying (huge markup!) for my wife's plans to spend my daughter's birthday with her while leaving me out.  :evil: :evil: :evil:

I finally got up the courage to send her back an EMail tonight.  I was not rude, but I was firm.  I told her that I wasn't paying and I was going to use the money to spend some time with my daughter around her birthday myself.  That may not sound like much, but I have been cowering from my wife for many years.  I faced that fear tonight for the first time in a very long time, maybe ever.  I felt the fear but did it anyway.  I realized that I am so afraid of the crazy consequences or backstabbing and undercutting from her with family and friends, that I haven't bothered to find out whether she will do it again or not.  I guess I'll find out now, huh?

In terms of my biggest issue, I think I have rotated around to something along the lines of Dependent Personality Disorder.  Basically, neurotic and scared shitless.  Whatever, I hang around the DSM cluster-C somewhere.  I realized that the thing I fear the most is not being voiceless.  I used to have a voice, and now I have it back again.  I FEAR having a voice and not having anyone on the planet care one way or the other.  That is exactly what it was like for me growing up.  Long periods of indifference from my parents punctuated by thankfully rare spankings when my mother was angry.  I'm not going to keep going around in fear.  If that's the way it is then I'll accept it.  Luckily, I found this place and I KNOW that's not the way it is, but my emotionas are just barely starting to get caught up to that realization.  I'm sick of feeling anxious, afraid and wondering what is wrong with me.  I'm not editing this post (expcept for some typos) no matter how it turns out or what the response is.  I've doen way too much of that in my life.  Searching for the words to dance around the truth, but being too afraid to just come out and say it.

Part of what is fueling all this for me right now is that I have switched my paycheck deposit over to my account.  I am waiting to see that it takes this paycheck (later this week) before I tell my wife I am getting a divorce.  For those of you around since the spring, you may remember how much I bobbed around this issue then.  It still brings up a lot for me now, but I trust myself to go through with it this time.  I can't believe that it was only earlier this year.  It seems a lot longer ago.  I have done so much feeling and reading and growing since then.  And it is still going on.  I'm nowhere near done.  Now I trust my experience and my senses.  I feel like the boy who cried wolf, but this time my vry will bring the wolf into existence.  Well, I'm getting poetic and worrying whether that is turning people off.  If you don't like what I'm writing you can turn your eyes elsewhere.  I'm tired of editing myself to the point where no one can understand what I'm talking about.  At least this time you can "not understand" the real, full me.  I don't particularly like emotionally barfing like this, but if that is what I need right now, that that is what I'll do.

Until there are real (as opposed to my imagined) problems, I will keep being myself.  When there is a problem, I'll deal with how I need to and go right back to being myself.  I also realized tonight that I still had some terror/panic about being abandoned.  I was afraid that if I do something my current wife doesn't like, she will badmouth me to everyone (yes, everyone!  its my irrational fear, leave me alone) and they will turn on me.  I will be completely alone and the child part of my inner family believes he can't take care of himself so I/we will die from abandonment.  The adult me in the here and now has two replies.  First, of COURSE she is going to badmouth me to everyone within earshot (politely, of course) she has never stopped doing that since the beginning of our marriage.  Second, I am not a kid anymore and am great at taking care of myself physically, and I'm getting better about taking care of myself emotionally and psychologically.  I'm tired of this crap, both hers and mine, and am getting away from hers and feeling/working on mine.

Some intrepid readers are terribly confused asking who is this guy and what the heck is he talking about.  You can search for my threads, especially the "long, long" thread, but it would take a long, long time to read through it.  Otherwise, feel free to ask questions.

Love or Hate me for who I am.  Just hear me.  Hear me and hate me, but hear *me*.  Don't hate OR love me for who you tell yourself you see and hear.  Or who you need to hear.  Or who you want to abuse.  Better to be hated for myself than loved for a delusion.

I guess that is for my wife, but it is also a cry to you and to the world.  Despite the desparate (and rambling) tone of this post, I have made a lot of progress and and far better off than six minths ago.  Still, I have plenty of road ahead of me left to walk.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

David P

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2005, 03:04:20 AM »
Hey Longie ! Way to go dude!

Just keep telling the b****h whatever you need  to say to her, cover your ears to block the worst of the blast and congratulate yourself for going into major 'dewussification'.

Gee I can smell the testosterone from here !!

Go to a mirror and say "Maximus!" to that guy you see there and beat your chest several times too!

David P. ( posting from Alphaville)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2005, 05:39:24 AM by David P »

vunil

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2005, 05:50:26 AM »
Longtire-- Congratulations on sending that e-mail. It is a more than rational response.  I have often gotten the impression of your wife that she will try anything she can to get things from you, especially money.  She has a very infantile idea of money, and she almost acts as if she is your daughter and you are supposed to support her in whatever she wants, as if she is somehow a child and you are the adult.  This is a great step in getting her to cut that out, or at least serving notice to yourself that you will no longer be providing unlimited money whenever she wants it.

As for people hating you, I honestly can't imagine ANYONE hating you, ever, although I guess there are folks with terrible taste out there.  But you are so articulate, so reasonable, so sensitive.  I do not think you properly appreciate yourself.  I think this is a problem with most of the people on this board, sort of that anti-narcissism where people have no idea of their own worth.  But the point of this rambling paragraph is this:  Even if everyone in your life suddenly started hating you because your wife told them to, it wouldn't matter-- almost instantly, other (better) people would step forward to be in your life.  It just sort of works that way, I am not sure why.  I know when I anticipated changing my life by having a child, I was terrified (for years!) of the change it would make to my life and the potential that I would lose my social life and many friends-- not out of malice but because I wouldn't be who I was before.  I was right, I did lost my previous life.  But a whole new one came in to replace it, one that fits me better now and that is every bit as satisfying.

So, even in the worst case scenario where she has a strong effect on how many people view you (and that scenario is pretty ridiculous, as worst-case scenarios usually are), it will not affect your life negatively for very long.  Think of how quickly you gained the affection for folks here, and how quickly you became affectionate back.  Yes, it's "just" a board, but it is a good microcosm of life.  You will be fine.  More than fine.  There are people out there right now saying "you know, I would love to spend more time with Longtire, to get to know him, but I cannot STAND that wife of his."  When you are on your own, those folks will come find you.

Congratulations-- I am so impressed with everything I have seen you work through and accomplish in a few months here. It inspires me to work for personal change of my own.

Brigid

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2005, 08:37:15 AM »
Longtire,
You are sounding stronger and making perfect sense.  I think that your wife does think of herself as another one of your children that you need to care for.  Good for you to stand up to this.  I would  agree that if she does badmouth you, anyone who agrees with her would not be someone you would want as your friend.  I think as this whole situation plays out, you will find those people you want in your life and those who were never your friends anyway.  It is amazing how a life-changing event like divorce can bring those things to the surface.

Sugarre said:

Quote
we are co-dependents but that label can be used to explain our part in a dysfunctional relationship and also be used to beat ourselves up when we are feeling down.  We can be the same person in a healthy relationship and then we are called supportive and empathetic.  We just need to find the right people which we will.

This is so true and very well said.  I am finding that out now as I have begun a wonderful new relationship.

Brigid

mudpuppy

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2005, 12:22:07 PM »
Hi Long,

Quote
I realized that I am so afraid of the crazy consequences or backstabbing and undercutting from her with family and friends, that I haven't bothered to find out whether she will do it again or not.

This is not an unreasonable fear. These people specialize in destroying reputations and relationships to manipulate other people's behavior. They count on our very real and reasonable fear that others will believe them to keep us in line.
I learned, as you did, the hard way that the only thing we can do is the right thing and to hell with the consequences.
 My attitude now is, any person who can observe the actual behavior of me and my brother and come to the conclusion that I am the one in the wrong is too stupid or oblivious for me to care what they think, even the people in my own family. Of course, to be fair, most of them are just as manipulated as I was.
The thing is once you create some distance from the abuse and take the first steps of resistance pretty soon it becomes a habit. And I believe you'll start seeing the consequences aren't nearly as bad as you thought they would be, and in any event even the worst of them is far better than being a captive of someone else. Someone utterly selfish.

Hey bittles,
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"I could have been a contender!"  Was it from Streetcar Named Desire? 

On the Waterfront.

mud

Marta

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2005, 12:25:31 PM »
Longtire,

You sound so gentle and so sweet. If you are afraid of being hated, then it is only legacy of your past with Ns. Congratulations on taking yet one, oh no, two more step towards that, by refusing to pay for the ticket and changing your paycheck deposit!! These are pretty big milestones, I am very happy for you.

Quote
I'm not editing this post (expcept for some typos) no matter how it turns out or what the response is.  I've doen way too much of that in my life.  


I know exactly what you mean! I am with you on this one.   :D

Longtire, happy for you..... :D :D :D Marta


Sallying Forth

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2005, 02:49:07 PM »
I finally replied to my wife on a matter that's been hanging over my head.  She paid a huge markup on tickets and is taking my daughter to see a broadway play out of town on her birthday.  Now, besides setting all this up without telling me, she sent me an EMail telling me that she wanted me to pay for one of the tickets.  Did I mention that I wasn't even told until it was a done deal and wasn't invited.  To be sure, my daughter is very excited to see this, but even in my worst hopeless depression I'm not paying (huge markup!) for my wife's plans to spend my daughter's birthday with her while leaving me out.  :evil: :evil: :evil:

I finally got up the courage to send her back an EMail tonight.  I was not rude, but I was firm.  I told her that I wasn't paying and I was going to use the money to spend some time with my daughter around her birthday myself.

Good on you longtire! Fantastic!!! Bravo!!! (wishing there was some smileys that dance and move a lot, clapping their hands)

I like the poetic side of you longtire!

You are making and taking some huge steps in your life. Congratulations!!!
The truth is in me.[/color]

I'm Sallying Forth on a new adventure! :D :D :D

Stormchild

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2005, 09:27:13 PM »
Wow, Longtire, this gal only has one trick in her bag, doesn't she?

MAJOR boundary violation, intrusive demand for $$$, tied up neatly with emotional blackmail (it's for your daughter, how can you disappoint her, waaaah) and frosted with deliberate exclusion-type meanness (of course you were neither invited nor told. That would have taken all the fun out of it - or required her to treat you like a person rather than a source of supply).

She really just sees you as a walking wallet, doesn't she. I'm sorry. Rejoice in your good fortune (aka your own place and the separation).

Thank God your daughter seems to be doing rather poorly in Golddigger School...!  :D :D :twisted: :twisted:

onlyrenting

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2005, 09:42:49 PM »
Hi long, it's been awhile and I always wonder how things are with you, It's good to hear from you.

Im going through the mist of my divorce and today picked up a report from D's Doctor about FAS.
I have NEVER NEVER had a drinking problem, but my ex told the court our D had FAS.
This has never been in any medical report and from what I understand FAS is distinct like seen in magalods
your born with it.
The report says my D is very smart and very pretty (FAS have small heads, ears and eyes).

When the mediator told me he was saying this about D and it would look better if I went and had a report done, I told her I was not surprized about the lies.
"I said I expect it", he told me he would lie and he kept his word. I now must face what deep down I wanted to avoid.  

Im very calm and accept my ex has NPD or for any PD this is the color of the disorder.
Becoming a believer that this is his problem and this is down side of the disorder. I know it's not anything I have done, I had to face the doctor and say why I wanted the report.
Maybe the doctor would wonder if it was true.
No doubt D does not have FAS.... This shows more  against him for making a BIG DEAL, screaming that this was true.....I hated it, but he just keeps hanging himself.
As a co-dependant it becomes difficult to sit and watch while he destorys everything in his path.

Money and N's, this feeds something in their brain, you stop feeding and expect them to cry.
Let her cry, do what your doing with your D without your ex being involved.


Just expect the rath don't run away from it. Keep praying for the strenght to overcome the fear you must face. I expect more difficult times in the future with my ex, I have just thrown my hands up giving this problem to the lord. PD is just that, keep strong and know we care about you and will ride the waves of the storm with you............. Take care ...............OR






longtire

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2005, 10:33:08 PM »
Thank you all for your responses.  To be honest, I was shocked by them.  I FELT like I was raving and blathering at the same time last night.  To be called rational and strong in several different ways by different people.  Wow!  What a reality check.  For so long, I have viewed myself as flawed, irrational and too weak to ever do anything to really change my life.  The people here are my lifesavers.  You all are an important part of my chosen family, even though we have never met, and probably never will.  Sometimes I day dream about walking down the street and meeting someone from here and really sitting down to a cup of coffee and talking.  Does anyone else do this?  I suppose it is a good sign that I want more connection in my life, but with people who are safe and caring.

I realized that I left out some details from my post the other night.  The down side of not editing, I guess.  In the Email to my wife, I included a line about checking with me first from now on if she wanted my financial assistance on non-required things for my daughter.  So, I did leave the door open for legitimate needs and discussions.  I also realized it was not clear that even though I am having my paycheck direct deposited to my personal account, I still plan to transfer enough cover the bills, along with her paycheck.  I don't want my daughter to think that I don't care about her or that I am being mean to her mom.

I read some other mailing lists for "non's" of Borderlin PD people.  In some senses I am grateful that my wife's behavior has never been so violent or over the top as many of the stories tell about there.  On the other hand, the covertness and hidden nature of it has made it a lot harder for me identify what has been going on for so long.  Many of the people on these lists still long for their abusive SO's and remember all the really good times.  In my case, I feel ripped off because we had problems from day one and all the "courtship" was really and act.  We never had any honest, good times.  On the other hand, I am not looking back at this point and have NO desire to get back together.  My prior ambivalence was fueled much more by my terror and panic around abandonment than anything my wife has ever done.  I have finally realized that the oold saying is especially true for me, "There is nothing to fear, but fear, itself."  My fear has kept me in this dead relationship for way too long.  Of course my wife didn't feel like she needed to treat me like a human being, instead of her emotional toilet.  I couldn't leave.  I couldn't stay, but I just didn't know how to leave.  Being torn in the middle was excruciating.  Somehow, I am still the same person coming out this side.  I am surprised to find that I am not bitter or jaded.  I believe that marriage can work and be a great thing.  I no longer believe in fairy tale hsappily ever after, though.  I DON'T believe that all women are backstabbing b*%@!s out to use men.  To be sure, some are, but so are some men.  Having a chance to share and listen with you here has proven to me that there are plenty of good people in the world, I just have to make sure they are safe before I open up TOO much.  I used to be afraid because my wife seemed emotionally "big."  Now I realize that is part of her facade, or plumage, like a peacock spreading its feathers to seem intimidating.  The truth is she treated me that way because, despite all my issues, I was truly "bigger" than her.  Rather that reach out for help, she took the defensive and then the offensive to make sure that I couldn't use that against her, the way she used it against me and would try to use it against others.  How sad.  She doesn't seem big to me anymore.

"When the student is ready, the book will appear."  That seems to be the way it works for me.  I've been reading "Crazy Time" suggested by several people here.  It is really validating and is helping me to pull together a lot of the pieces that I didn't realize were related to the separation and impending divorce.  It is reassuring to know that my mood swings don't indicate a serious mental disorder, they are very common for people separating and divorcing.  Most of the time, I don't feel angry about the situation.  Sometimes, though, when I'm talking to myself in the car  :oops: it just pops out of my mouth.  Now, I'm OK with it and see it as releasing some pressure.  I'm being more open to it, but for now it just seems to be more of a pressure release than anything big.

Quote from: Sugarre
Well, I'm rattling on and on about me but I want you to know that you sound great and yes, we are co-dependents but that label can be used to explain our part in a dysfunctional relationship and also be used to beat ourselves up when we are feeling down.  We can be the same person in a healthy relationship and then we are called supportive and empathetic.  We just need to find the right people which we will.
I finally get this.  I am a naturally open person.  I love connection and community, not just for myself, but for others too.  It is genuinely difficult for me to understand why many other people don't seem to feel the same way.  For a long time I've been beating myself up for "leaving myself open" with this trait,, rather than valuing it as the gift it is.  I believe that I CAN't change this about myself, not that I want to.  It is one of the things I really like about myself.  It is part of who I am.  What I've been missing is to be more selective about who I admit and share this with and when (how soon) I do it.  That IS something I can change and am working on.

Quote from: vunil
As for people hating you, I honestly can't imagine ANYONE hating you, ever, although I guess there are folks with terrible taste out there.  But you are so articulate, so reasonable, so sensitive.  I do not think you properly appreciate yourself.  I think this is a problem with most of the people on this board, sort of that anti-narcissism where people have no idea of their own worth.
You know, I think that I always projected that these people MUST hate me because of how they are treating me.  However, in some sick way, I almost wonder whether they love me.  Oh, not as in loving me, but as in needing me to feel better, to feel fulfilled by projecting their emotional crap onto me.  Psychologists call it a "love object" whether the person feels love or hate towards it.  Essentially, this person (love object) becomes the most important or only existing thing for them, at least for a while.  Almost like an anchor or a point of reference.  If they really had no use for me, these people would have ignored me.

As for anti-N, I think extremes are usually not healthy.  Too much or too little is not good place to be.  Balanced and healthy and able to choose based on the situation is where I'm aiming for.  I'm still coming out from under my wife's "spell."  The best shock value is had when you demonize the other person's best qualities, don't you know?  She didn't criticize me for my faults, well not so much.  That would too intimate and connected.  She either criticized me for her faults by projecting, or she criticized me for my best qualities.  Oh, she never called it that.  But my reaching out, trying to be supportive and listening were called "always after sex," "inadequate," and "demanding," respectively.  I think it will take a while to really get out of that screwed up mindset, but I'm already on my way and grateful for every bit of self-appreciation I have back.

Quote from: Brigid
I think that your wife does think of herself as another one of your children that you need to care for.
I think that my wife married her mother.  I KNOW she did.  She was not able to really ever discern me as being separate from her mother until in front of the marriage counselor.  Still, I don't know if she really meant it or was just saying it for her audience.  Feeling trapped with a seemingly overbearing presence is one thing she and I have in common.  I can't really hate her for this.  As bad as just being around her was for me, she is hurting herself much worse than she ever did to me.  Getting angry with her bhavior, that is a completely different story!  :evil:

Quote from: Marta
You sound so gentle and so sweet. If you are afraid of being hated, then it is only legacy of your past with Ns.
Thank you for this feedback.  I am still early enough in recovery that it surprises me to have someone see/hear/read me and tell me they like it!  Being sweet and gentle could lead to caring and intimacy.  She had to stop that at all costs, so she attacked those things when I did them.  Then when I stopped in pain and confusion, she attacked me for NOT doing those things.  I think most people have a comfort zone.  People too far away is lonely, but people too close (for their familiarity level) is intrusive.  I think that my wife has NO comfort zone.  Too close and too far overlap and she feels both at the same time.  There is no space between where someone else can be close enough to not feel lonely, but not overly close.  Abandonment or Invasion.  Black or White.  All or Nothing.

Quote from: OR"
Just expect the rath don't run away from it. Keep praying for the strenght to overcome the fear you must face.
I do expect her reactions.  I accept that they will happen or not and I can't control that.  I accept that her words will convince other people or not, and I can't control it.  I accept that she will be angry with me and I can't control that either.  If she tries to do something damaging, I will respond in a way to protect myself.  I won't worry about it until then.  That is really difficult for me because predicting potential problems and taking easy steps to prevent them early on has been a very successful strategy for me in school and at work.  Still, this middle-aged dog is not too old to learn some new and improved tricks.  Anticipate and protect when important and appropriate.  DON'T worry about every possible bad thing that could happen, just deal with it as an adult when and if it actually does.  BTW OR, that FAS stuff is stupifyingly moronic.  :shock: I will give him an A for creativity, though.  :twisted: I could never go that far out in left field to invent something as assinine as that.  Imagine harnessing that creativity for something positive and enriching instead of wasting it on distractions.


One last point for tonight.  I use to worry about posting too much and being too wordy.  I just accept that it is where I am at right now.  I use only the words I think I need to use to make my point or convey my message.  Some people might not be able to handle that.  They probably take one look at this thread and say "I'm not wasting my time reading all that."  Actually, i have not had one person here get irate at me posting too much or too long.  So, I'll accept THAT about myself and deal with any problems if and when they ever come up.  Good night, all.
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

Marta

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2005, 01:06:49 AM »
Quote
Longtire:
Some people might not be able to handle that.

Longtire, rest assured that there is nothing in your post that would get anyone worked up. I can relate to how you feel, however. At one point in time, I'd have terrible anxiety about who I was and how I related to others. Even now, if someone appears to be mad with me, I get terribly, terribly anxious. I expect a tirade, or backlash of some sort, and my stomach churns.

Quote
Most of the time, I don't feel angry about the situation.
Please allow yourself to get angry. You need that. You need to be able to feel entitled to your anger.

Quote
The best shock value is had when you demonize the other person's best qualities, don't you know?  She didn't criticize me for my faults, well not so much.  That would too intimate and connected.  She either criticized me for her faults by projecting, or she criticized me for my best qualities.

You are right on the mark! How Ns belittle us for our best qualities!!! May be they are jealous, may be they want us to spoil it for us. May be they hope to paralyze our best qualities by criticizing them because otherwise we expect to be subjected to a tirade, which is what may have happened in your case. Still, it is difficult to let go of that need for some acknowledgement from them re. how things actually are. Sadly, that will never come.

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despite all my issues,
WHAT issues??????!!!! Your only real issue seems to be the N wife!

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needing me to feel better, to feel fulfilled by projecting their emotional crap onto me. 

Oh YES they do! Ever saw an N without any supplies? They get so down and depressed that ut is truly a sad sight, and at that point I almost feel like nurturing them.

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She was not able to really ever discern me as being separate from her mother until in front of the marriage counselor.


They say that Ns will only admit what they are forced to admit. They will go as far as they can get away with. In the privacy of your bedroom, the twisted thinking dominates, there is no reality check. In front of a marriage counsellor, she is forced to admit the truth, because there is an external authority present. It is a conscious CHOICE and manipulation on her part, not some disability.

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In some senses I am grateful that my wife's behavior has never been so violent or over the top

I am not really sure whether your wife is an N or a BPD. If an N, divorce will bring out the worst in her, far worse than anything you may have experienced so far. Don't underestimate the damage she's done to you just because there are worse abuse stories out there -- that's not fair to yourself.

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On the other hand, I am not looking back at this point and have NO desire to get back together.


You've come a long way baby!!!!!!!!!!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:

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too weak to ever do anything to really change my life.

The way change works is in small steps, nothing monumental. In more than one post, I've seen you call yourself weak. Do you care to talk about that and tell us what you mean and why?

I want to recommend you the essay by Woodraw Wilson, When a Man comes to Himself. You can download it free from manybooks.net.

Best, Marta

 



 



longtire

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Re: Standing up
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2005, 05:34:43 PM »
Marta, you have a lot of good points in your post, so I'll reply to some.
Quote
Most of the time, I don't feel angry about the situation.
Please allow yourself to get angry. You need that. You need to be able to feel entitled to your anger.
I believe I am more open to my anger now, but most of the time it still just pops out whenever.  I am working on this with my counsellor as well.  I think this is actually one reason why I expected hostile responses (that haven't happened yet). :) I feel more "prickly" because I recognize much more quickly when I feel angry.  Then I just let myself feel it and try not to analyze it or solve it.  I use how I feel to know what I want and go for that.

Quote from: Marta
Quote
despite all my issues,
WHAT issues??????!!!! Your only real issue seems to be the N wife!
Exactly!  Why did I choose someone like that.  I can accept that my conscious was ignorant of these things, but it would be too much coincidence to believe the my UNconscious was as well.  Looking back, it did try to warn me, but I hadn't learned to trust my intuition yet.  Also, why have I stayed so long?  Again, I wasn't connected to trusting my feelings and perceptions.  Also, I was terrified of abandonment (and the certain death to follow).  I don't mean I was afraid, I mean my mind would !panic! and do ANYTHING to avoid this perceived impending death.  Everytime I stood up to walk out the door, so to speak, I would feel so emotionally dizzy that I had to sit right back down where I was to get my bearings again.  I knew I had to leave, but I wasn't able or ready to.  I am very happy to report that I have addressed both those areas and no longer feel stuck.  What fear does come up is honored and re-introduced to reality.  I am not a child.  I am good at taking care of myself, even taking care of myself emotionally now. :D  Issues for sure.

Quote from: Marta
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In some senses I am grateful that my wife's behavior has never been so violent or over the top

I am not really sure whether your wife is an N or a BPD. If an N, divorce will bring out the worst in her, far worse than anything you may have experienced so far. Don't underestimate the damage she's done to you just because there are worse abuse stories out there -- that's not fair to yourself.
I can't decide NPD or BPD.  Some traits of both.  I don't know if she would ever get a diagnosis with these, but I believe she is not far from PD.  It only matters now to know how best to deal with her and protect myself going forward.  I didn't cause it.  I can't do anything about it.  I don't underestimate her behavior.

Quote from: Marta
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too weak to ever do anything to really change my life.

The way change works is in small steps, nothing monumental. In more than one post, I've seen you call yourself weak. Do you care to talk about that and tell us what you mean and why?
Why weak?  Because for so long, I could not figure out how to feel OK.  Nothing I had ever tried worked.  I didn't understand at all because I didn't learn basic emotional functioning or emotional education from my parents.  I thought I had found my soulmate (fairy tale beliefs) and when I found out the truth, I blamed myself for failing yet again and lost a lot of my will to try at life.  I still kept looking for someone bigger and stronger than myself to take care of me.  Someone who understood what was happening, knew what to do about it, and had the energy and drive to do it.  Well, I finally found that person.... ME! :D  I no longer believe I'm weak.  A weak person could not have separated and created another household at a point in their life where they had barely slept at all for three or four weeks!  Maybe that is why I am better able to feel my anger and use that energy in positive ways.  I feel strong enough to handle any repurcussions that might come from that.  I feel strong enough to deal with failure now, so I am not afraid to take more chances.  What a chicken and egg problem it was!

Quote from: Marta
I want to recommend you the essay by Woodraw Wilson, When a Man comes to Himself. You can download it free from manybooks.net.
Thanks, I have already printed it out for reading. :)
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)