Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Overwhelming Guilt/Pity - Help
CC:
Hello Ladies,
Jaded, thank you for your beautiful words. The lyrics you wrote from that song had me welled up with tears and I appreciate you taking the time to post it. I might add, I have seen you do a lot of hard work here lately, and your contributions are very helpful - I can see you doing your own work in your contributions which is so awesome.
Rosen, (good to have you back, by the way, I see you've been lurking again after a brief MIA) I thought I would address a few of your points.
Yes, I have made my expectations, or my needs clear to Nmom in addition to telling her what I will not accept - namely this: I expect to be treated with the same respect she would offer her friends - or any fellow human being whom she had not met before. I asked for her to stop trying to control and manipulate me, and to accept me entirely for who I am, even if she doesn't agree with what it is I stand for in a given circumstance. I asked her to allow for mine and my husband's and his family's differences and perhaps even try to appreciate and learn from them. I told her I did not want her to change who she was, and that if she could learn just to be herself that people would like her more. That when its when she tries too hard to impress or be someone that she really isn't that she hurts people or pushes them away. That when she is trying hard to change people or make them see her point of view, she is in effect pushing people away, which is the opposite of what she wants. She stated that she was in agreement with all of it.
Another interesting point you brought up is that of "teaching" her new ways of responding (like with the baby announcement). In theory, I agree with you. I had been doing this with some things along the way over the last year or so. But I have very mixed feelings about this. I wonder if this is a form of controlling. This is on the border of trying to "change" her, which is exactly what I don't want her to do to me. I realize that "our" way is the healthy way, but if we are still pointing out "you are doing this the wrong way, I need you to do it THIS way", are we not just reversing the concept of control onto our dysfunctional parent?
Additionally, in the past when I have tried this type of communication - she might agree or understand it at the time but is unable to really apply it when necessary - because she is truly unaware of when she is slipping into the manipulative behavior. Granted, after this latest confrontation, she may be more receptive. But I am exhausted - and almost feel like I shouldn't have to spend the time and energy to teach her how to be a human being. I feel that I have invested too much time and energy with her up until this point - I am looking for ways to lessen this, not add to it. At the risk of sounding like an annoying employee at work -"that's not my job" :?
She has been to counseling, several years ago when my father died, and just scratched the surface. She admitted - her therapist kept going back to her childhood, and she didn't want to go there. She said she didn't see how it was relavent to her current life (duh) but the reality is, it's too scary for her. She feels she got as far as she wanted. I brought it up again when we've been talking through this confrontation - I think she feels she is too old to dig up all the pain from 60 years ago, when she is only going to live another 10 or so. And, she truly doesn't see that it would clear all this up. She prefers to look at it as "I just need to change my behavior, that's all". So I guess that's fine too.
I told her she needs to widen her circle of support. She has agreed to it. I don't know how she will follow through, but that's not my problem. She has her AA group, but she has them all fooled with her N act too - she doesn't really "work" the program. She shows up, but tells me in private that she would "never" talk about some of the personal things that the others talk about in group. She considers herself superior to many of the people on the program because she is not a "rock-bottom" drunk or a multiple substance abuser. This is very consistent with her all-around unwillingness/incapability of truly communicating and being intimate with people.
So you see, even though my mother might not be the spiteful harridan yours is :twisted: , she still is unwilling to get to the heart of the matter. Her motivations, from what I can see, are to preserve her relationship with her precious daughter - not to find true happiness within herself. It is sad.
Please tell me about cranial osteopathy - I am interested. FYI, I see a massage therapist regularly for cranial/sacral massage, it is the same?
I laughed out loud with your recommendation of the book "women who think too much" just the title alone I can relate to. I've heard of this book before, I think I will check it out.
--- Quote ---I think that if you could avoid pity and feelings related to pity that you'd find your true feelings.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure how to approach this, but you definitely have my wheels turning, sister. I will be pondering this throughout the day. You are sooo perceptive. I can't even identify my true feelings with this - which is why I struggled with what to do yesterday. This is the N-legacy. I have not known what my true self is for so long, and I still don't know how to identify it. I just know what's wrong.
Well, that's enough for now. I've rambled on entirely too long. Thanks R, for your ever-insightful thought provoking responses.
good health to you.
Nic:
Hi CC,
I read your post with alot of interest as usual. I think all of us, sons and daughters of Ns, have such similar experiences.
I don't want to be the voice of " Get the Heck away from your N parents", I would never prescribe that as THE solution to the problem. They've scarred us because they've been scarred and so now we're all scarred together and on and on and on it goes! I was frustrated when reading your post to tell you the truth..not because of how you reacted and what went on but because since i've broken off all contact with my N family i've been able to rest.( apart from court!)
What I would prescribe is a rest period for yourself and your husband as well as "baby". How to go about that..that is the question. I'm angry at your mother because she chose "THE HOLIDAYS" to discover that she has been a " terrible mother"...I'm angry at the perpetual one-sidedness of all N arguments/actions/reactions/issues..Yes they are people too! But they continue to treat themselves as if they were more "PEOPLE" than others..and I find that so bloody frustrating!
Of course they, the N parents choose the most emotion filled times of the year to act something out..they always get their pseudo-epiphanies when it's most incovenient for everybody else. They are such hi-jackers.
Without question, your mother is suffering..and of course you want to help her because you have become or are naturally a warm and caring, albeit raised by an N, person..but perhaps you should resist..just this once to the temptation to afford her more attention than she realistically deserves. What I am saying has nothing whatsoever to do with revenge. These are the Holy days...let's keep them Holy! That's more the message i'm trying to convey. We cannot grab a hold of our own feelings and lives if we don't let go of the hold we have on the perpetrators/instigators of our present predicaments. This is not unkind , or uncaring..it's like cleaning up from the inside out.
I can't help thinking how violent it is of your mom, ( like my mom whose favourite time of the year to explode was Christmas btw) to choose this time of the year to drain her pregnant daughter just a little bit more.
I'm truly sorry you are going through this normally beautiful and significant time of year and indeed of your life an involuntary prisoner of your N mother's guilty feelings. I'm convinced it's all about her feeling better for the holidays or maybe worse, by attracting exagerrated attention to herself your mom might be out for a "fix" in order that she may give herself permission to endure yet another holiday season.
Oh CC, I feel for you, I really do, cut yourself some slack, YOU are allowed to have a wonderful Christmas season..the season of PEACE. Have a slice of Peace for yourself, unwrap a Peace present just for you, light a Peace flame in your fireplace just for YOU.
Blessings to you,
Nic.
PS// I'm not spending any part of Christmas with my family, by choice and for me..and don't any of you go thinking that was an easy decision to come to. Sometimes it's harder to leave your N family than to stay in it..I contemplated leaving mine a long time ago..but decided to stay on for twenty years, it got me strictly NOWHERE..BUT it permitted me to come to the best decision i've ever come to. I think my Nparents feel good about my decision too because they never have liked to look behind ( at themselves) Ns are always the ones saying: THAT WAS IN THE PAST< GET OVER IT!..Well, here's to the future!
Anonymous:
[Another interesting point you brought up is that of "teaching" her new ways of responding (like with the baby announcement). In theory, I agree with you. I had been doing this with some things along the way over the last year or so. But I have very mixed feelings about this. I wonder if this is a form of controlling. This is on the border of trying to "change" her, which is exactly what I don't want her to do to me. ]
In my view it is not controlling nor trying to change her to suit your unspoken needs. It's direct, honest limit-setting. If you don't do it, she will maintain the bad behavior. It is exhausting, it is aggravating. But I don't see any other choice if you want to have a relationship with her.
bunny
CC:
Nic,
Thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy posts and respond. I was glad I read yours after a few days had passed - your words were very timely and spoke to me. I am taking your advice about peace (and getting some this season) to heart.
I am struggling with Christmas Eve a bit, we normally have my mother over for an hour or two with the in laws and then bring her home early - afterwards staying up late with my husbands' family. Then in the morning we go to mom's and open gifts and have brunch. I am considering just not having her over at all Christmas Eve - the problem is I already told her she would be invited so I don't know if I can pull it off.
I think you are wise to have made the decision to stay away from your parents during the holidays. I envy your capability of this. I know you respect that each of us choose different paths. Just curious - something to ponder: The fact that stands out for me when you talk about your separation - your parents have each other. I wonder if you would have been able to make the same decision was one of your parents gone and there were no other siblings or family around for the remaining parent? I am ever more aware that this is a big reason that I have not been able to disengage. Blessings to you Nic, I know you will have a peaceful holiday because of your choices. I will be thinking of your words when things seem like they are getting in the way of what's important .
Bunny, thanks for the frank advice. I always enjoy your input because it is brief and to the point! I think you are correct - as long as I choose to have ANY relationship with her, there is going to be work involved. That is the bitter reality.
It is always so interesting to me how each of you respond and different parts of people's experiences speak to each of us (it is evident in the ways you each respond).
Anonymous:
CC,
My mother is on her own too, and I'm an only child. For many years we've had her with us on alternate Christmasses, so at least we get one year in two off! The years she is at home she is usually a complete martyr. She could go to her sister but chooses to be alone, in order to punish me, presumably. This used to bother me but really, it's her choice.
This year I asked my son how he would like to spend Christmas and he replied, "I don't mind, as long as Granny doesn't come". You can see what a ray of sunshine she is in our lives!
If I may offer an opinion, I think you are doing very well in balancing your desire to be humane against your need to maintain your new boundaries. I am aware that I felt some anxiety reading about your recent contact with your mother though. I think this is my fear that, if it were me, there might be some sort of 'slippery slope' operating and I would graduallly get sucked back into the old patterns. Maybe this is just my stuff.
I so agree that what you most deserve this Christmas is peace. Your baby and partner deserve this too. I so hope you can achieve it.
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