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Overwhelming Guilt/Pity - Help

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CC:
Going to spend an hour or two shopping with mother today to "break the ice" before the Christmas holiday.  I feel peaceful about it.  I feel detached, that it will be different today.  The challenge now and in the future is to restrain myself from offering too much personal information..  I think if I can manage that I will be home free.  I'll let you all know how it goes (maybe you're sick of hearing about it, but it helps me to verbalize it all here even if no one is listening!)

Sorry Rosen, not paying well enough attention .  You are right, I was confusing you with Echo in her pursuit of a new career.   :oops:

P.S.  I was wondering what you all thought of this idea.  I am considering buying my mother a book for Christmas that be about what it means to be a good, supportive person in someone's life.  I'm not sure what book yet, but definitely not about Narcissism - she would feel attacked or whatever, and then I would be "trying to change her". (I already had sent her an article about that months ago and she said something like "this doesn't apply to me" ha!

 I know I won't be able to change her.  However, I  believe she would be open to reading something that would help our relationship as long as it wasn't something like I was pointing out her wrongs and attacking her. Since she is particularly feeling vulnerable right now, perhaps it would be helpful, even if temporary. It would be more objective, like some book that would point out what it means to be a good friend or something.  She might not even apply it, but for my benefit in the long run and I don't see how it can hurt.  Any thoughts?  If I am being too hopeful and unrealistic feel free to slap me into my senses, it was just an idea.  has anyone tried this, or would they?

Simon46:
Hi CC:

I know that if I were to give my mother any kind of book that even hinted at self improvement of any kind, it would definitely be perceived as a spiteful personal attack, and me trying to “get” her, no matter how kind my intentions were. I would never do it for that reason. Having said that, I don’t know how your mother would react. I would guess that the really important thing here is not whether you do it or not, but how attached you are to her reaction. If she approves, great. If she doesn’t and instead gets defensive, counterattacks or punishes you, are you OK with that? Can you laugh it off and say to yourself Hmmm, Sure enough…Interesting…Just as I thought…Are you to the point yet where she can say hurtful things to you and you can know they are not true? Where she can try to sound vicious and cruel and you can say Ahhh – yep there she goes again, Oh well, I threw it out there. What is your true motivation in giving her the book? Is it to make her “see?” What is your need to fix her? What is your need to make her see? (Simon sounding like a therapist here). Do you believe you can make her see?  I am full of rhetorical questions with no answers here!

Anonymous:
CC,

Any book that hints at self-help, no matter what its stated topic, will evoke a negative response. I wouldn't recommend it, unless you want to see her go off the deep end again.

bunny

CC:
ha ha Simon, I like your rhetorical questions!  :D  Actually, my intent for the book was not necessarily to "make her see", it was more, to SHUT HER UP.  To teach her how to  let me alone, and just not tell me how to feel, what to be and what choices to make. To accept the choices I have made in life without a peep.  To not criticize me or the people I choose to be close to in my life (other than her).    I was hoping not to change her, (not because I wouldn't want to, but I know I can't) because she will always have the sick thoughts and twisted critical logic - but rather to learn to shut up and not share her sick thoughts with me because they are hurtful.  

I know already she will never see what a narcissist is, or what borderline personality disorder is, and how it applies to her.  So the magic boook I had in mind would be one that simply told how to be a quiet, supportive bystander in the life of someone you love.  But I think you are right, I am fooling myself.  Perhaps Bunny is right on, any book is going to be perceived as a negative, regardless of my intentions.

And Simon, you are right again..Even though I am sort of sure she wouldn't be angry with me for giving her a book, the possibility that she might react hurtfully is not something I am prepared for.  I see how I am putting myself in danger.  And after spending time with her yesterday, I feel even more sure that I am not yet neutral enough to handle her antics.

We went to a few stores yesterday for Christmas shopping and I could feel myself slipping into old habits with her already.  Against my plans I found myself going on and on telling her all sorts of personal information about my husbands' ex wife and her 2nd husband, and how my stepdaughter gets along at her house, etc.  This is exactly the kind of conversations that later come back to haunt me somehow, and cause her to form negative opinions of my stepdaughter, my husband, or whatever.  Even as I was speaking the words to her, I immediately regretted it, WHAT WAS I THINKING?

I have been so "close" with my mother for so long (I use the term "close" loosely because what it really is  is unhealthy entwinement on my part) that I have trouble stopping myself from sharing this information.  I also noticed yesterday that some of it is actually NERVOUS CHATTER, that I am filling what would probably be uncomfortable silences with valuable conversation to prevent myself from boredom or irritation, or hearing her negative comments about others!!!  I guess I have always done this, and never realized how much it might be setting myself up.

Just to give you an example of her day to day grandiosity, negativity and prejudice: My mom and I were getting into the car to leave a store in a parking lot, and the lady in the car parked next to us was picking her nose, I mean, really digging and getting into it.  :lol:  The nose-picker lady was completely aware that we were next to her and looked at her, and she just didn't care, she just continued picking in earnest.  I mentioned my amusement with this lady to my Nmom, saying how funny it was that she just didn't care if we saw her do this, and my mother was absolutely horrified, replying "OH, its absolutely disgusting, and its because she's a foreigner (she looked of latino descent).  Those foreigners are ignorant, low class and have no manners whatsoever!"

This is the kind of comments that make me cringe inside. Granted, this was definitely bad manners. I wish I could tell you that I am completely free of prejudices and generalizations, but I would be lying - and I think as human beings we all have biases based on our personal life experiences whether we admit them or not.  However, I try to give each person a fair shot, particularly if I've never met them; but that's not what this was really about.  More importantly, it was the inablity for her to see the humor in the situation - it was about her need to feel superior to another human being.

In the past I have said things such as "I really would appreciate it if you wouldn't make generalized comments such as that as I find it offensive", or , sometimes even trying to get her to realize her prejudices - saying "I've seen all walks of life pick their nose in the same fashion, and don't think it has anything to do with nationality"  :lol: .  But I have done this so many times it is truly fruitless.  So I choose to ignore it, and usually change the subject.

I communicate with intimately my husband and close friends, and even here.  I am very open.  It is extremely difficult for me to shut up.  I don't even know how to, it is against my entire personality. I am not interested in superficial relationships with other people, but this is how it has to be with mother, and I don't know how to go about it. It is truly an excercise in self control.

thank you for talking me out getting a book for her, I know I'm not willing to suffer the reprocussions, and it is just probably not a good idea.

CC

KateW:
Hi CC and All,

You all are truly amazing - this board is such a help. CC, you are doing so great.

I remember seeing this poem a few years ago and it made quite an impact on me - before I even knew about N's:

Children

by Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children:
They are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

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