Dangerous Words - It isn't (or wasn't) really that bad.

[Gail]

As I've been trying to make sense of my life this past month, I realized I've used the phrase, "It isn't really that bad." over and over in my life.  As a result, I've allowed myself to be in some life threatening situations because I wouldn't accept how bad something really was.  I've let an ER doctor tell me I had the flu when I had a gall bladder ready to blow, another one tell me I had a backache when I had a kidney infection, and left the hospital after surgery with a non-functioning bladder because a nurse minimized my pain so it "really wasn't that bad" .

Of course that spills over to personal situations.  I stayed with a high school boyfriend who used to put his hands around my neck, even though it terrified me.  I didn't think it was really that bad.  The treatment of my XH "wasn't really that bad", I'd tell myself, even though I was crying in frustration almost every day the last few years.  X BF's behavior "wasn't really that bad" despite him yelling at me and using the F word when I mistakenly put a stick he liked into his wood stove.  Mom's behavior a few years ago "wasn't really that bad" even though she was throwing things at me and telling me to go to hell when really angry with someone else. 

Right now I'm fighting with an insurance company over a neck injury due to getting hit from behind by a truck.  The agent is suggesting I'm lying about my pain, and my first thought is, "Well, maybe the pain isn't that bad."  What????  I'm the one feeling the pain, and I know it hurts!  I was hit by a moving truck, for crying out loud, and have a herniated disc.  Why am I arguing with myself because of the comment of an insurance agent?

I've tried to figure out how in the world I got to this point.  I'm well educated, have a fair amount of self confidence professionally, and make very good decisions regarding the health care of my children. What is the matter with me that I can't trust my own judgment when dealing with myself?

I realized that it possibly stems from a physical condition I had when I was little that caused me chronic pain, which sometimes was agonizing.  I remember being told that, on a relative scale, "it wasn't really that bad."  Sheez!  If that wasn't bad, I don't know what would have been.  So, I lost my ability to judge when something was severe and when it wasn't. 

When my children are hurt or sick,  I'm very sympathetic.  I want them to trust their judgment, and I want them to know that I care and understand if they are hurting.

I'm wondering if anyone else has struggled with anything similar.

[Plucky]

Yes, Gail,
you have opened up a new avenue of memories for me.  I was constantly trained not to judge my own feelings or sensation for myself as a child.  I was not allowed to eat when hungry or remain sleeping when tired and there was no other reason to get up.    When my clothes didn't fit, it was not that bad.  When I came down with measles, my mother told me to stop making myself have those bumps!  If the school nurse hadn't sent me home....!
When I said I couldn't see things, I was told to stop pretending.  Years later I was found to have severe myopia.  I did not have the right not to like any food, nor to select any decorations for my room.   I rarely got to pick my own clothing.   I begged for music lessons for years.  When I got them, and the teacher was dismissive and controlling, I did not have the right to change teachers.
I would go on but I'm getting bored myself!
Plucky

[vunil]

I have the same thing and it comes from my parents-- that may be true for you, too.  I think it stems from their lack of desire to protect me or sympathize with me or have me get attention.  I internalized this and have to work really hard against it.  Can you remember how your parents reacted when you were sick or upset or facing some danger?

[Plucky]

Translation:  It isn't that bad for you = It's too much trouble for me.
Plucky

[Stormchild]

Minimization is a favorite tactic of abusers. It's one more way they can turn the situation against the person they are abusing, and blame the target. "You're too sensitive", "You're overreacting", "I was only joking, you don't have a sense of humor". All dishonest, all manipulation, all intended to undermine your trust in your own judgement and your grasp on the reality of the situation, which is: you are being abused, you are being neglected or harmed, and it is intentional.

[David P]

Yes Gail- it all sounds familiar to us who had an NPD atmosphere for a home life . Your lack of trust in your judgement is a direct consequence of living with hateful, ego driven Parents.I can relate to eveything that you wrote - NPD parent(s) are so toxic in the way that they psychologically abuse their children. They set out to create a compliant child who has no self regard, no independence and no entitlements. They then ration their time, approval and affection in crumblike manner to 'reward' you for doing their bidding and becoming the little cardboard cutout that suits their agenda.They do not love you and never did and that is the toughest reality to grasp.
 They probably did provide for your subsistence needs, but even their paying the bills is regarded by them as license to trample all over your wishes,hopes and dreams.They have a curious Golden Rule which goes like this ,"He who has the Gold makes the rules."
 The best revenge is not to become like them. I believe that their disorder is intractable and the prognosis for change is poor. Our best defense is awareness and a firm grasp on the reality of NPD.
For me it is hurtful, but healing to realize that I do NOT have the parents that I want, but I DO have the parents that I got.

DP in TX.

[Gail]

Whew!  Some tough questions.  How did my parents react when I was sick, upset, or in some kind of danger?

Upset is an easy one--I learned very early on not to show any upset with my mother.  I do remember, though, one very good conversation with my dad when I was in my last year of high school.  He empathized with something I was going through, and it's a memory I treasure.  It's sad that it's the only time, in all my growing up years, that I felt heard by a parent.  Not surprisingly, it occured after he stopped drinking.  He really became a different man.  Unfortunately, he died a few years later.  I don't consider him to be an N--mostly he was very busy building a business and enjoying life, and just not as engaged as he should be with how things were for us kids. 

As far as danger goes, being in dangerous situations was a way of life for us.  I grew up in the far north and we accepted physical danger without hardly giving it a thought--it was a way of life.  I remember being terrified many times--up in a small airplane in a raging storm or complete whiteout, out in the ocean huddled in the bottom of a boat not knowing if we were going to live or die, battling getting swept out to the open ocean in a rowboat, having to get rescued at camp on a beach with the tide rushing in.  But, those experiences were never processed.  They were just accepted.   So, that's probably another reason why I haven't given as much importance to my personal safety as I should.  In the last few years, my mother and I have been able to talk about these incidents and that has been healing.

I do have a fairly painful memory about being in danger.  I was in an automobile accident that had the potential to be a fatal one when I was a teenager.  My boyfriend and I were coming home from an outing and were hit by a car that ran a stop sign.  It probably would have been fatal if the car that hit us had been just a few seconds faster.   When I told my mother about it, she hardly had any reaction.  It just wasn't any big deal to her, although I know she would have grieved if I'd been killed.  But I didn't hear, "Oh, thank God, you were OK." or "Tell me exactly what happened."   I don't think she was being deliberately malicious or callous, it was like it just didn't register with her. 

As far as memories related to illness, there are definitely some not so good ones there.

Gail

[NPDdad?]

Hi Gail

I can relate... although my Mum wasn't a full NPD, she does have NPD traits which probably stemmed from my dad.  Traits in that I had to eat within a certain time (if I didn't she rubbed my face in my food!), she chose all my clothes and I was just a mini replicar of her, same hair, same clothes.  This was something that got worse the older I got and when I was doing my exams, I got massive headaches, blurred vision etc.  I was sat on my bed crying because I couldn't read to revise for my exams and she told me I was being silly and to get on with it.  It was like she really didn't know what to do.

My brother (who is my half brother), is a mini version of my stepdad, same clothes etc... and it's quite strange but I didn't realise it until I went home yesterday.  It was Mum & Dad's 25th Wedding Anniversary and they had all the old photo's out.

I believe that we hold a lot of power within ourselves and we can heal and repair and tell ourselves, it is a big deal, we are important.

I'm very lucky in that, while I haven't had good relationships in the past (though who has!), I have learnt from them and I have a wonderful, caring, kind considerate husband who is more than happy to help others and doesn't possess any NPD traits.

All the best. xx

[bliz]

Whenever my ex would talk about his dysfunctional upbringing with alcoholic Dad and codependent Mom, he would end by saying "it wasnt that bad" or "others had it worse."  I never got that until later.  It was his cop out or covering STILL for his upbringing.  Eventually, I would say, that isnt really the point though, is it?  Of course that would make him mad.  Still in denial, I am sure.

[Hopalong]

Gail...I can relate to that accident story. I was in an accident that destroyed the bike (a cab took us out and I hit the street face first). Anyway, just a few stitches but spectacular face scrapes, and my first-ever ER visit. After my Dad brought me home from the hospital and I walked in, with bandages, my N Mom goes, "I just dont think I can TAKE this..." Jeez. Turned out my accident was about her...
Another time in my veyr early 20s a peer died, a girl I really liked, who was married to a boy I'd had a big crush on, had 2 babies. When they married young I was very taken by the romance of it, few people our age were doing that in my town. Mom announced "You know, Pam died. She drowned." I was in total shock, stunned, teary. Mom says, "But she'd had a drug problem you know. So it's probably for the best!" I didn't know then what it was exactly, but I knew something was really wrong with her. Hopalong

[BPDdad?]

Hiya

Had to post again because the words from Bliz really made me think.  For me, it wasn't that bad.  Ok, it wasn't perfect, but I wasn't sexually abused and while my Mum had traits of NPD, she is no where near as bad as my dad, who she left.

So for me, saying it wasn't that bad, that other's had it worse is quite a true statement. xx

[Hopalong]

Me too, BPDad. And Gail. And Bliz. This is a fruitful thread. I have a friend with PTSD from childhood abuse. She says, whenever she talks about painful current issues or I do..."others have it so much worse". And, she's a committed social activist, in the trenches all the time fighting for African-American and low-wage workers, so she's right. I sometimes feel ashamed talking about things that bother me (insecurities, romantic collapses). Because there IS so much that's awful, much much more awful, in the world. How do y'alll reconcile being preoccupied with self in order to heal, vs. self-absorption that's possibly, eeeek, N-ish?

I mean, I don't want to stop working on my inner stuff (by learning here, for example), but I also don't want to get my nose so deep in my navel it gets stuck. Any thoughts on that balance? Thanks, Hopalong

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya Hopalong

It's interesting you say about finding the balance, but I feel that it's to do with being happy with yourself and if you're not happy with something in yourself, knowing you have the power to change it.  I also feel that forgiveness is possibly also a big part of this, which I'm aware is something I haven't reached yet.

For your friend, being happy is about helping others less fortunate which she finds very rewarding, for you it may be healing your inner self at this time so you can move on to bigger and better things.  That is not the trait of a N.

Best wishes hon xx

[Gail]

To Hopalong -

For me, I need some introspection because I just ended a relationship that had red flags all over it right from the start.  I want to make sure I don't go through this again, so am looking at my childhood to try and understand why I'm willing to put up with mistreatment and engage in magical thinking (He'll change. I know he will if I just hang in there.  Ha!).  I don't want to get stuck here, but I recognize it's going to take some time to work through those memories that are still influencing me.

I've always been one to say, "Well, at least I'm not in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or ....)  But pain is pain, no matter what the source or reason.  Probably none of us have had to deal with the extreme pain and trauma of children in war torn lands.  But we have experienced other pain in the past that needs to be faced and understood if it is affecting our behavior today.

I never again want to willingly give another person the power to mistreat me.  I don't want to get into any more destructive relationships. 

It's not about blaming my parents for the bad choices I've made, because I do accept responsibility for them.  It's understanding what factors in my childhood influenced the choices I've made as an adult, so I don't make the same ones again.

I struggle, though, with feeling guilty for sharing some rotten childhood experiences because I know I'm not perfect as a parent or as a person, so I fear being too judgmental.  But, I also know that the depression I've been attributing to my recent breakup is lifting, and I think it's because I'm clearing out some old traumas that were buried pretty deep.

Hope that makes some sense.

Gail

[Hopalong]

Gail, that makes a LOT of sense. Thanks. Plus, if you're relieving your depression by all this inner work, then that ultimately makes one more effective in the world anyway, so the Big Pain (of the world) is reduced. For a job once I interviewed Alan Luks, the man who founded Big Brothers Big Sisters, and his book was about how altruism heals the giver. I believed him then and now, but often get frustrated (guilty) at how little I do to help the Big Suffering. You are right, though, if we're too depressed to do it, then the depression has to be dealt with first. He did say that doing altrusim even while depressed can also speed healing. I've been inconsistent about that but I think it makes sense. (I thought the most interesting insight was his research shows that people who have direct contact with the needy, IOW they ladle up the soup to the hungry rather than stacking the cans in the food pantry...show the most dramatic benefits. Physcially and mentally.) Fascinating stuff. I know a few people who went to the Gulf and they all had such an urge to be in direct contact with the evacuees...maybe there's some helping instinct there. (Like here!)
This is such a good, constructive, safe space. I am glad to be here with you.
Hopalong