Author Topic: Wookahs?  (Read 2591 times)

Ciccia

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Wookahs?
« on: October 26, 2005, 02:59:10 PM »
Hello Dr Grossman

I just came across this board and read the article about Wookahs and was brought up short by this paragraph -

"...the sine qua non of a Wookah is that they have an irreverent relationship with their father. Mr. J., your second grade teacher, asked me a few weeks ago whether I remembered what you used to call me. "The idiot," he said, laughing. You still call me that. Wookahs push the hair on the top of their father's head around and casually say: "Hmm, the bald spot looks a little bigger today than it looked yesterday." And of course, fathers of Wookahs say, when they kiss their Wookah good night: "I hate you, pup." And Wookahs reply: "I hate you, Dad." For Wookahs know all about subtext and irony. "

I am convinced my soon-to-be ex husband is a thorough Narcissist.

He has an "irreverent" relationship with our daughter, 10.  He encouraged her to call him "pig" and has no problem with her whacking him on the rear etc.  I discourage D from this sort of behaviour.

Also, his sense of humour is only really sarcasm and irony, and better still, a kind of sneering.

My question is, can a Narcissist also be a good parent, in your opinion?

I observe in my husband, no boundaries, basically.

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Wookahs?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 03:09:23 PM »


My question is, can a Narcissist also be a good parent, in your opinion?



Honest opinion.... yes, IF they realise they have a problem and are prepared to get help, are prepared to do something about it themselves.  Otherwise from personal experience, I would be inclined to say no.
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Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: Wookahs?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 04:08:37 PM »
Hi Ciccia (and welcome!),

Before I answer your question, I thought I should re-print the entire essay (below) for those who haven’t seen it in order to provide some context to the quote.  Any parent who deprives a child of voice does damage.  And this is typically just what a narcissistic parent does.  Unless the narcissistic parent is actively working (with the help of a therapist) to see their child as more than simply an extension of themselves (i.e. as someone separate, to be valued in their own right, and with their own thoughts, feelings and beliefs) that parent is being destructive.  Irreverence can occur in the context of a wonderful parent/child relationship—but it can also be part of a lousy one.  One has to consider irreverence in the context of the whole relationship. 

Best,
Richard

p.s. Speaking of “voice”, the Wookah (a.k.a.Micaela) is performing with my wife Hildy and The Follen Angels (http://www.follenangels.com/ ) at Scullers Jazz Club in Boston  (http://www.scullersjazz.com) on Tuesday, Nov. 1, 8 p.m.  “I Love Louis—A Tribute to Louis Armstrong and Friends”.  She has a wonderful voice, and I’m very proud.  (Sorry, a shameless plug, but I couldn’t resist!)
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What is a Wookah?
(Celebrating a Child with "Voice")


Micaela, when you were two and a half, we bought two identical goldfish which we placed in a small plastic fishbowl that sat in the middle of the kitchen table. One fish you named Mommy and the other, Daddy. Of course, as soon as they began to swim around, it was impossible to know which was which. One day (a few months later) we came home from the grocery store only to find one fish floating belly up at the top of the tank.

"Soooo...," I said, dipping my hand into the tank to scoop up the dead fish, "Who's left?"

"Mommy," you said with certainty.

"What?" I said. I looked at the fish again to see if it had any any identifying marks. "How do you know it's not Daddy?"

"I know," you said. "It's Mommy."

It was around this time that I first noticed you were a Wookah. What is a Wookah? You have asked me many times, but my answers have always been incomplete.

First let me tell you what a Wookah is not, just so there is no confusion. A Wookah is not a Wookie, which we all remember to be a large, but friendly beast from the Star War movies. While sometimes you make the same noise as a Wookie, particularly when doing your homework, you are nothing at all like a Wookie.

What then is a Wookah? First of all, a Wookah is a child whose knowledge of the world belies their age. Take this example:

When you were one and a half years old you were walking down a street in Northhampton. We were visiting your sister, C., at college. It was nighttime. You looked across the street at a storefront sign, and you said "ice cream." "What?" I said, shocked. I looked for a picture of an ice cream cone on the store front. I looked for a person carrying an ice-cream cone on the street. Something that might have given you a clue. I could find neither. Only the pink and blue fluorescent letters spelling "ice cream."

Typical of Wookah behavior, the sign on the store next door said "Dry Cleaning," but you didn't read that.

Or how about this example:

One day, we were discussing the concept of heaven, and you said:

"Heaven is the attic of the world."

"Heaven is the attic of the world." Hmmm. Let's think about that.  It's above the world, and old things are stored there, things that evoke memory.  One can imagine boxes, rafters and dust--hardly the romantic image of movies.  Good metaphor.  How old were you when you made this observation? Not quite three. Obviously a Wookah.

Wookahs tend toward skepticism. Some, of course, will see this as a fault. Wookahs are bored by Mr. Rogers, Barbie and Ken dolls, and trite discussions of family values. Ms. Y., your first grade teacher, once took me aside to tell me what you had said when the class, on a field trip, happened upon preparations for a Christmas festival. "They care more about decorating than they do about people's needs," you told her. As you can see, a Wookah will scramble up Kohlberg's Moral Development Scale as if it were a jungle gym.

Outspokenness and self confidence are certainly some of a Wookah's most notable traits. All of my previous examples suggest this, so I need not offer more proof. Suffice it to say, one always know where a Wookah stands.

Finally, the sine qua non of a Wookah is that they have an irreverent relationship with their father. Mr. J., your second grade teacher, asked me a few weeks ago whether I remembered what you used to call me. "The idiot," he said, laughing. You still call me that. Wookahs push the hair on the top of their father's head around and casually say: "Hmm, the bald spot looks a little bigger today than it looked yesterday." And of course, fathers of Wookahs say, when they kiss their Wookah good night: "I hate you, pup." And Wookahs reply: "I hate you, Dad." For Wookahs know all about subtext and irony.

But what happens to Wookahs when they get older, when they become teenagers? Nothing! Nothing changes! They're still Wookahs. Why would they change? If they rebelled they'd start watching Mr. Rogers. And how does one bless a Wookah? This stumps me since blessing a Wookah is much like waxing a car that's still sitting on the showroom floor. There's simply a limit to how much something or someone can shine. But I can say this: every day I ask myself, how'd I ever get so lucky as to have a genuine Wookah. For most fathers can only hope to be as fortunate as that.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 07:33:14 PM by Richard Grossman »

mudpuppy

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Re: Wookahs?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 05:59:41 PM »
Hmmmm,

Quote
Mr. J., your second grade teacher, asked me a few weeks ago whether I remembered what you used to call me. "The idiot," he said, laughing. You still call me that. Wookahs push the hair on the top of their father's head around and casually say: "Hmm, the bald spot looks a little bigger today than it looked yesterday."

My daughter calls me a 'chump' and refers to my bald spot as my 'shiny egg'.
All this time I thought she was being a certifiable pill when she did this stuff. Turns out she's a Wookah. I believe I'll still think of her as a pill, doc. :P

mud

mum

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Re: Wookahs?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2005, 12:57:36 AM »
Wow, I had not read that article. LOVE it.  I guess I have a wookah on my hands as well, and my new stepdaughter....oh boy!
Such wonderful young people I get to be around.
Dr. G, I just have to tell you I am impressed. My son is heading to Berklee next year and as a former (and soon to be again) MASS girl, and the mom of a "jazz cat", I've just got to say SCULLER'S? WOW!!
Seriously, for those of you NOT familiar with Boston or jazz, Dr. G's wife clearly has no mere "wonderful voice". But wonderful is a perfect word.  How nice that you are so supportive of your wife.

mum

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Re: Wookahs?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2005, 01:10:49 AM »
Ciccia, sorry got sidetracked with the Massachusetts/jazz connection...

My ex is supremely sarcastic and mean spirited and either acting silly and irreverent with the kids, OR being just plain angry and impatient.  There is no peace.

My son has decided that having no voice when it comes to matters with his dad is the best way to go....and with college looming and a creative outlet, this is how he deals. He is also sweet and not at all "cocky" like his dad.
My daughter struggles more because she keeps trying to find her voice with him, only to have it repeatedly knocked down.... but at least she talks (to me NEVER a therapist!!!! :?) about WHY she doesn't bother expressing her needs to him and how upsetting it really is that he never listens. This, of course alternates with positive comments about him (just to make sure I wont' hate him even more....poor kid).
So IMO, N's do NOT  make very good parents, but kids can be okay, no, more than ok, with an N parent, IF the non N parent is not also "under the influence" of the N. So that's my little philosophy on this...but take it with a grain of salt, obviously, it is tainted by my optimistic outlook on my own experience.
I would also add, that you might not want to waste too much time feeling sorry for your children.  This is their life, their path. And beyond protecting them and doing what you can to teach by example, they will become who they are meant to be BECAUSE of struggles, and that may include one real jerk for a parent.

Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: Wookahs?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2005, 07:25:47 PM »
Hi Mud and Mum,

Thanks for your replies.  Mud, if you have a Wookah (even if you call her a pill!) you are truly lucky!  Mum—thanks for the kind words.  Hildy and Micaela are both talented.  It’s a lot of fun (as you can imagine) watching them perform together.  That’s terrific about your son going to Berklee—perhaps I’ll see him on stage at Sculler’s soon!

Best,

Richard

mum

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Re: Wookahs?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2005, 11:01:21 AM »
Dr. G, how did I miss that? I re-read, and even more congrats...your wife AND your daughter! What a pair to share this world with!!!