Author Topic: Losing myself completely  (Read 3357 times)

October

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Losing myself completely
« on: October 30, 2005, 10:30:09 AM »
I went to stay with a friend overnight on Friday, so we could go visit ex easier on Saturday.  Except then C decided not to go, so we were packing the car to come home yesterday morning.

My friend is a minister, and had a quiet day yesterday (Sat) and he had gone with all the people to this day out.  Anyway, a woman rang the doorbell.  She had been left behind because she thought they were meeting at 10, and it was actually 9.30.

I said, no problem, I will take you.  I rang my friend, and he said why don't you stay for the quiet day as well.  I said, perhaps an hour or two would be good, and take it from there, in case I am not well enough to do the whole day.  So far so good.  He gave me directions; only about a 15 - 20 minute drive at most. 

Anyway, we were going along happily enough.  This woman was a bit strange; kind of obsessive about details, if you know what I mean, but nice enough.  Anyway, we talked about my ex, and his health, and then she asked more and more, and I told about him being an alcoholic.

Oh my God!!!!!  She then started about herself.  It was like I gave her the permission to do this, by admitting this old relationship.  She said is an alcoholic, 6 years recovered.  She talked and talked and talked, about everything.  Then I got lost.  I realised I had missed the turning, and said I needed to concentrate on the road, and she said it was all her fault ( :shock:) and carried on talking and talking.

My friend rang, and we said we had missed the road, but were nearly there.  And I was on the right road, but at a certain point I turned into a church carpark and could go no further.  She was still talking.  I had shut her up at the point where she discussed her suicidal thoughts, by telling her that my daughter is only 12, and looks older, so she changed away from that one, but there was just this torrent of words and it felt really invasive.  (At one point I told her that I don't know her at all, and that she is to be commended if she is not drinking, but in my ex's case I would never believe him when he says he has not been drinking, because he is a liar, and doesn't know what the truth is.)

Even if she is recovered, she is clearly still held fast in the fascination of what it is to drink, and the processes involved.  There was so much detail, and she went on and on and on.  Starting from how her husband used to pour the drink for her to begin with; lots of how it was not her fault.  It was the pain, then it was him, then it was the illness, then she couldn't stop.  Then how the doctor told her she had 5 years to live, so she stopped.  And she had only been drinking for six months.   :shock:

My friend rang again.  I got out of the car and told him, in a really little girl voice, I don't know where I am.  I am lost, and I don't know where I am.  I said P has been talking.  He said he would come and find us, and I told him the name of the church.

He came and took this woman away.  And he gave me a hug, which was lovely, but so did she, and it felt horrible; like being trampled on.  She had no concept of how repulsive she was to me.  While waiting for him she said, why didn't you tell me to shut up, or to change the subject?  Still talking.  She said I hope that what I have said will be useful to you when you have time to think about it.   :shock:

I said to Charlie, it is like someone listening to you say that a family member has been murdered, and then they admit that actually, they killed someone once, and then giving you every gory detail, as if it could ever help you.  It really does not help at all.  And it was all about her.  Nothing at all about the effect on her family or husband.

I couldn't go to the quiet day at all then, although I really needed a cup of tea or something.

The woman left a small card on my car seat, about healing.  I found it, and threw it out of the car window before C and I drove away, and came home.  My friend sent several texts on the way home, to make sure we were ok, and that was so kind of him.  I told him I had thrown the card away, and he said someone could find it and use it to wipe their btm.   :lol:   It was like having him with us.  Then I made a cup of tea when I got home.

All I can think now is that this woman found what she believed to be a codependent, and latched onto me like a leech or a vampire would.  I didn't realise in time what was happening, and by the time I did find out, it was too late to stop her, because I had frozen into survival mode.  My ego boundaries are really weak, and my defenses just not up to managing something like this.

I could not concentrate on finding a new road, while at the same time maintain boundaries of conversation within reasonable limits for both myself and C.  So my coping crashed (although the car did not, fortunately!!) and I had to stop.  I could not drive another yard with her sitting beside me.

I am not sure what this means, except that I am not very strong when dealing with some people.  Maybe I need to be more careful who I spend time with.

Then I was asleep all afternoon.  But today I am a bit better, and have made gf chocolate cakes and cheese scones.   :?

Hopalong

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 10:45:51 AM »
Yikers. I believe I would have had a complete panic attack.
Yup, there would have been 3 Valium down the hatch before we'd gone a mile.
What a harrowing day. I feel the horror of her oblivious nattering. I feel the horror of how you felt "pulled" into engaging with her, trying to make sense to her and of her, and how vulnerable that made you. Being in a car with someone like that is very, very claustrophopic and disorienting.

I am trying to imagine what defenses might work in a future setup like that. How about, I have a migraine headache and I'm sorry but I must ask you to not speak. Or, literally, just pull the car over and say I am going to call XX and have him come fetch you, because I'm afraid I have an emergency.

Is is true about being fragile sometimes, and this reminds me what someone said here a few days ago about the strong power of Ns...something about their supreme self confidence. When my NMom goes on and ON about herself and I'm anxious already, it can spin me into a panic attack.

You did get help. You did toss the card. You did rest. You did have chocolate.
She was toxic and you got away from her as fast as you possibly could.

Good job.
Hopalong


"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Chicken

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 10:59:36 AM »
Yeuck!  Ick!

I would absolutely DIE in that situation... :shock:  Oh my God, the claustophobia just reading about it, and the fact that you were lost as well!!!  Oh God that's just so horrible.  Nightmare material.
 
It's really strange but something like that happened me once, I won't go into it but I remember thinking-  why is this happening?  I almost thought I had caused the situation because my thinking was a bit distorted at the time.  I was vulnerable and felt like I was having a breakdown at that time (which I guess I kind of had in hindsight) and then all this wierd stuff happened on the outside, which kind of mirrored what was happening on the inside and I felt like I was a bystander in the eye of the storm.

yeuck!

Sorry you had to go through that.  You probably got a big fright.  I'm glad you went home and took care of yourself.  A few cups of tea and some choccies...    8)

Marta

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2005, 11:04:42 AM »
October,

This woman really violated you. The part about "helping you" was so annoying! I can imagine how yucky you must be feeling.

Quote
I am not very strong when dealing with some people.  Maybe I need to be more careful who I spend time with.

Well, you can't control everything in your life. And your defenses are pretty much in the right place in that you did realize, while it was happening that it shouldn't be happening, and afterwards that you didn't want to have anything to do with her. So don't shut your self off because of this experience. This kind of thing happens to me time and again, when I feel I do something against my will in presence of certain people. I too get really upset about it. But as long as I don't let them do it to me twice, I can get over it.

Just one line, "I am sorry but I just want to concentrate on driving," Or simply changing the topic to what you Brits love to talk about,  :P, ah the lovely weather, could also do the trick when you want to regain control.

Hugs, Marta


longtire

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2005, 01:27:03 PM »
October, that sounds like a very uncomfortable time.  You recognized what was happening and did what you were able to do at the time to take care of yourself.  Good work, you sound strong today!
longtire

- The only thing that was ever really wrong with me was that I used to think there was something wrong with *me*.  :)

October

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2005, 02:10:57 PM »
Thanks all.  Your comments are so validating, you would not believe it.  And yes, it did feel like dying - I lost my own sense of identity completely by the end and just existed; like being in shock.

I should just say that to anyone with a drink problem, I am not this antagonistic to all people who drink.  I can understand how difficult it is to stop, and at first I was even able to be sympathetic, when this lady said she was 6 years recovered.  But the signs are that she has not recovered from anything much, least of all her idea that it is all about her, and not about those she comes into contact with.

I don't think anyone here would have that same attitude, to be honest.  But sorry if I have inadvertantly hurt anyone struggling with this particular demon.

Cadbury

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2005, 02:52:51 PM »
Oh my goodness October, that sounds awful. so utterly draining. I don't know how I would have coped with it at all. People are always telling me all kinds of things without my encouragement so I guess we must have "one of those faces" that encourages confidence in others. I cannot believe what kind of woman would pour all that out to you in front of your daughter - that is really yucky.

I don't think you can blame yourself for the way it made you feel at all. It made me feel awful reading it and I have no history of having to deal with an alcoholic. It is a bit like some of the people who have lectured me on being a single parent since I became one. I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW now leave it! I cannot imagine what you could have said to shut her up without actually being rude. She seemed to like the sound of her own voice too much. Like others have suggested, maybe the best thing is to lie in that kind of situation. If you pretend to be a far worse driver than you actually are, you could say something like "I am ever so sorry, but I really need to concentrate on my driving or I am liable to crash!". That may sound light hearted enough, but may work. I really don't know... poor you.

Well done on coping as well as you did. I will send you some cyber Cadbury :D

October

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2005, 02:57:25 PM »
Oh my God, the claustophobia just reading about it, and the fact that you were lost as well!!! 

Several people commented on the vividness of the writing.  That is (partly) from describing a flashback as it replays.  It all happens all over again, and you write it down.  Sometimes when I do this I slip into the present tense as well, and fall into reliving the whole thing.  Really horrible when that happens.

Very pleased to be at a day's distance from this already.   :?

mum

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2005, 08:40:35 PM »
October
Quote
..Several people commented on the vividness of the writing.  That is (partly) from describing a flashback as it replays.  It all happens all over again, and you write it down.  Sometimes when I do this I slip into the present tense as well, and fall into reliving the whole thing.  Really horrible when that happens.
I'm sorry this is horrible when that happens, but I think you could channel that well, as it is a unique talent to write so vividly!

Quote
, it was too late to stop her, because I had frozen into survival mode.  My ego boundaries are really weak, and my defenses just not up to managing something like this.
Oh, please....NOBODY has the defenses up all the time to manage someone like this!!! Give yourself some credit, kiddo, I'd have been considering an "accident"  :lol: of some type!!!

I think by now (after reading the other posts) you know we all have great admiration for you and how you dealt!!!

Plucky

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2005, 10:20:41 PM »
Wow October,
I am exhausted just reading your story.  That woman sounds like a rare item.  Too bad you ended up with her.  Thank goodness it's all over.

Sharing information does make you vulnerable.  In future, maybe you should limit your conversation to the weather!
Plucky


miss piggy

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 12:42:19 AM »
Hi October,

I share everyone's reaction of ew.   This is something that could easily happen to me.  At least now we know we are allowed to have boundaries even if we can't always feel strong enough to enforce them.  Sometimes I find it hard to know upon first meeting who can take a gentle hint and who needs a two-by-four to the head.  I don't feel confident with the big stick treatment on a first date, if you know what I mean.  I freeze, too, in these situations esp. if it wasn't known beforehand that the other person is a nutbar.

Well, those of you familiar with drinking issues know that the drinking is only the surface problem covering up what led the person to abuse alcohol in the first place.  This woman sounds OCD or something.  The excessive talking is sometimes referred to as perseveration.  It's sometimes an indicator of learning differences (a catch-all phrase).  They just don't pick up on social cues to shut up. 

I had to share a hotel room with someone like this once during a business trip (just being required to room with anyone was annoying enough...).  She was new to the company and no one knew just how inappropriate she could be yet.  I had to fake being asleep in the morning, because as soon as I opened my eyes she started talking.  I would wait until she went downstairs for breakfast to get up so I could have a little peace.  It was awful.  So I winced awfully hard when reading your painful story!  Ouch! 

Doesn't it feel good to get it off your chest?  Phew!  MP

seasons

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 10:23:55 AM »
October,

What hell, I've been there in a different situation, but stuck in a car.  Talk about loss of control! I would of lost myself completely and you didn't.
I'm glad your friend came for you.

(((happy your safe and away from her))) seasons

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Hopalong

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2005, 11:28:28 AM »
Dear MP,
Thank you so much for that word, perseveration. A new thing to study.
My elderly N-Mom does this every single moment I am in her sight, and we live together. Still, because I can't possibly give her enough attention, she's very eager for an 8-hour drive at Thanksgiving when we'll be able to "catch up." (I only WISH she drank...)

Shoot me now!  :shock:  :shock: 

Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

mudpuppy

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2005, 12:46:35 PM »
Hi October,

I have to admit to being caught in this situation more often than I care to admit.

I have a hard time shutting these people up. While I find their self obsession and bizarre familiarity uncomfortable I really don't take it personally.

Usually a second person (us) is not needed in the conversation at all.
So what I do is occupy my mind with useful activities, thinking about things I need to do or projects I need to work on. Meanwhile the other person is happily chatting away, apparently none the wiser. All you need to do is nod your head when they pause for effect or say 'that's too bad' or 'you don't say' based on the inflection in their voice just before they pause to catch their breath.
I have actually put the phone down and gone off to do certain chores, checking back once in awhile just to make sure they aren't getting wise.
What's the worst that can happen? If they get wise they leave and bug somebody else. If they don't, I've manged to do my own stuff and they are none the wiser. And I've learned who to avoid like the plague the next time they are within say 15 or twenty miles.
Being stuck in a car is the worst though.

I know this was hard for you, and this only a lame joke, but you know you could have stopped at a pub and offered to buy her a pint. :P
She either would been so upset she'd have shut her gob, or she would have tied one on and you and C could have left her there and driven on in peace.

mud

October

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Re: Losing myself completely
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2005, 01:55:25 PM »

I know this was hard for you, and this only a lame joke, but you know you could have stopped at a pub and offered to buy her a pint. :P


Thank you for the wicked thought, Mud!!  That is really good.  :lol:  I am not sure whether I mentioned that she asked me at one point whether I can handle a drink or not.  I thought that was really bizarre!!

It looks as if maybe this is not something wrong with me, and my own defenses, but something that could have happened to anyone - or maybe almost anyone.  That helps a lot.  Thanks, everyone.  (((((hugs)))))