I am scared I might be a "N"

[Nicole]

I am 23 years old and well I come from a strong line of "N's". I have a lot of my father in me and I always was proud of that. I dont know what is personality and what is disorder. I am so sad because I am starting to see what my father had done to me. I always Idolized him. I really thought I had all my "stuff" together untill I started reading up of "N". What if I turn out like this!

I dont know what to think right now.
please help
nicole

[Anonymous]

Hi Nicole,

Welcome to the board.  Just a few thoughts I thought I would pass along.  While I think you are brave to explore your childhood and who you are, I am wondering what prompted you to read about narcissism in the first place - and what sources you are relying on.  

For some of us when we know something is wrong inside of us, but we are not sure where it comes from, we tend to go looking for a diagnosis.  I would take more time before assuming that your dad (or you) is a narcissist.  Many of us have narcissistic traits but do not necessarily have a full blown personality disorder.  Furthermore, the fact that you are exploring the possibility that you are an "N" shows that you have a psychological awareness that most N's are not capable (or willing) of having. So even if you determine that your father has a personality disorder, or even displays some manipulative behaviors - you are not likely to carry them on to the same extreme.

I am not suggesting that you should ignore any feelings you have about the fact that you may have been victimized by narcissistic behavior.  In fact, I would encourage you to explore it more.  Begin educating yourself before you make any decisions though.  Read some well written, objective books about the subject. Then after spending some time learning more about this behavior, begin to pay more attention to feelings that arise when you are in the presence of your father.  You will know in time whether the things you have learned really apply to your situation.

My guess is that if your gut is telling you something is wrong with your picture of the past, it probably was... but it could be a number of things other than narcissism.

It is always disappointing when we reach that point in our lives when we realize our parents were not the figure of perfection that they led us to believe they were.  I know for me, this is when I truly became an adult - and let go of the fantasy that I had the perfect childhood - consider yourself lucky.. this didn't happen for me until I was about 28!  And after that, it took me another 6 years before I discovered that narcissism and borderline personality disorder were the "causes".

I will post some book titles from a previous thread here later that may be able to help you.  Good luck in your self- discovery. You might consider some counseling to explore the feelings that come up while you are doing some learning.  This will help you with know what to do with your new information, too.  And though it can be scary.. don't worry you are doing the right thing and it is a worthwhile quest!

[CC]

That was me (guest = CC) above, I logged on but got booted out somehow.  The books thread I was referring to is too long to post here, but if you page back to the original post you will find a wealth of information  - Wed. September 24, entitled "Books that have helped you understand".  Most, or many anyway of them are available at your local library so you don't have to spend a fortune at the bookstore.  They can be found pretty cheap on Amazon too if you want to keep them to make your own notes.

Hope this helps, CC

[Anonymous]

Nicole,

Everyone is narcissistic to some degree. It's part of human nature. When people are disordered is seen when they lack even a baseline of empathy and behave very, very selfishly toward other people. If you aren't doing that, you're probably okay. I don't know what leads you to think you are a narcissist, maybe you can see a therapist and get some clarification.

bunny

[Guest]

Nicole,

I'm not diagnosing as a therapist of course, but just as a lay observer, you seem far too concerned about your own growth and about other people (not wanting to hurt them like N's do) to be an N.

A lot of times adult children of abuse can mimic some of the specific abusive behaviors, but this can be because it is what they have learned as a way of communication, and is very different from having the same actual full blown disorder.   as the parent.

It is a difference between a select few learned responses getting repeated, and a whole intricate & vast, predictable gamut of inner pathology being constantly generated by a primary narcissistic wound.

You/we all  can work at changing these "mere" (by comparison) learned tendancies and have great success at doing so.

Best wishes to you.

[Anika]

The fact that you RECOGNIZE that you may have a problem tells me that you are not a "N"...yet. It is important that you learn all that you can about this disorder and that you seek counseling so that you can learn to further recognize the malignancies associated with it. This will help you to avoid these destructive behaviors in the future. Remember, this disorder only gets worse with time. Act now while you are still cognative of the possible problem. In time your views may become distorted and down the road it could be YOUR child writing in about his/her N-mom.

[Chris]

This board has been such a wake up call for me as an N.  (That and my wife of 8 years cheated on me last summer). I pushed my wife away due to my intolerable behavior.  How did she put up with it for so long? If only I had seen something like this years ago.

I'm making an appointment for a therapist on Monday.  Does anyone
know of any sites for N recovery?  I'm a little scared  that i'll never change.
I think God led me here.  My faith has been the only other thing besides
this site that has made a large impact on how I treat others.


Chris

[CC]

You are very brave, Chris, to discover this about yourself and want to examine it, and want to change.  The fact that you discuss it here, amongst "strangers", indicates you are sincere... because what motivation would you have to post if you did not really believe this about yourself?  Here, there is no one that you wish to manipulate or victimize. This will heed the possibility of change for you.

I recommend visiting the other forum on this website, "things that have helped" or some such title.  You will find invaluable resources there for a start - books, websites, and others.

Chances are that if you are truly a narcissist, you have come from a narcissistic parent.  Therefore, I think you might already be in the right place.  I think perhaps the place to start is to explore that possibility, and do some healing and acknowledgement in the area of your family origin.  And, they may not have been narcissistic, but dysfunctional in another way that caused you to defend yourself with narcissistic behavior.  In any case, you will not be able to "heal", or acknowledge your true self, if you do not do this first.

Many of us here have many narcissistic traits, and most of us came from narcisstic parents.  I know I can speak for myself that I have been working on changing my own narcissistic traits as I heal from my Nmother's inflictions and abuse at the same time.

Be gentle with yourself.  Discovering this can be very eye opening and painful, because you begin to realize how you've hurt others (I have).  Some people here may argue that you can never change, but I disagree.  It depends on your degree of narcissism, and how much you are willing to do to change. Acknowledgement is the first step.  Good luck in your quest.

[Chris]

CC,

Thank you.  Your post was warm, inciteful and helpful.   I called
my mother to ask if my father possesed any of those traits.
She said he was always very giving.  She isn't really an N either.
I'm starting to think that maybe the dysfunctionality combined
with my wife and I having a child at 17 could have something
to do with it.  We had a very rocky beginning.

However, I feel like I must remember there are no excuses.
I could have done things differently.  My plan now is to
see a therapist and continue reading and re-reading posts
on this site.  You mentioned realizing how i've hurt others.
That has really sunk in.  You're right, it's painful.  But
it has to be for the best because i'm already treating complete
strangers differently when i'm at work, the store, etc.
This site is such a blessing.

Thanks for the welcoming post and God bless,

Chris

[Nic]

Dear Chris,
i'd like to ditto what CC has said.  I have every confidence that if God led you here you'll be able to find forgiveness from those you've hurt but also forgiveness from yourself to yourself.
God knows how difficult it is to live down here, may you have a wonderful new year 2004.  The more i travel down the  road of recovery from all the hurt my N parents caused me and continue to cause me, and the more I read about other peoples' experiences with the dynamic, the more the hurt takes its proper place in my life.  It is comforting to know we're not alone and it's so strange to stop and notice just how many of us, if not all of us, are hurting. I hope you'll get as much support here as I did.
The truth will set us all free.
Blessings, Nic

[Acappella]

Hi Chris,

ditto CC and Nic AND culture too can be a supportive, enabling influence - can encourage a budding predisposition.  No one exists in a vacum not even parents!  I do not mean that as an excuse (i.e. an insufficient, unacceptable reason to justify behavior).  I mean it as just another part of the puzzle, a path to track back and out, like an alcoholic noticing that there is encouragement for drinking, bars on every corner, media, advertising etc. and therefore be aware of the need to counterbalance those influences.  

Being a parent young isn't an excuse AND it is a factor you were dealing with, an influence, a pressure.

my husband's mom is very giving AND has N tendancies - such as strongly favoring appearances over truth (based in part on coming from another country, being an outsider who felt both pressure and shame) and not accepting any feelings and/or behavior from her son that doesn't fit an image she needs to have of him and herself vicariously.  I knew another mom with N tendancies that always described her 3 sons as 6 feet tall, none were.  She gave and gave and demanded an image in return.  She spoke of them in terms of objective socially approved accomplishments and failures and not in terms of their own individual unique strenths and weaknesses.  Her husband had a whole other way of encouraging Nism.  My husband was born with a very secret physical limitation that I believe combined with his parent's image focus and limited tolerance of truth/s along with his father leaving for 7 years when he was a preteen to foster a N "survival" strategy. He was also the only son in a culture where that is given automatic status.  His family also accepted bulling as a means of expressing a need for space.  Oh and he grew up in S. California.    Doesn't mean I can nor will attempt to continue to try and share my life with him or that the pain is lessened enough to stay just because I believe I understand.  AND I don't think those factors are excuses anymore than the nail that causes a flat tire is an excuse - it is a factor and a hint at what and how what was once broken can be fixed...in this case by the tire though.  ah the metaphore just got a flat.   The tire in my home isn't interested in the nail apparently and sometimes it seems to me he is yet just not at a rate or depth that makes our relationship tolerable.  

I shared an affinity for appearance over substance with my N traited husband - how else could I have fallen for the image and not noticed and/or ignored the absence of a living breathing whole person?  

P.S. congradulations on the pain...like in pinoccio becoming real can be uncomfortable but is far better than trying to be a wooden puppet dangling from the strings of an image.  

Take (and give) care.

[Acappella]

Hi Nicole,

You sound scared.  Being scared and admitting it and reaching out as you've done here is a good sign you are not frozen in an image of emotionless perfection.

Do you feel any better, feel heard, reading all of these excellent posts? No one required you have it "all together" to care.  And apparently you didn't require everyone have it "all together" to be worthy of your reaching out to and getting some value from the exchange. You certainly didn't quiz any of us about how "together" we are.      

I really thought I had all my "stuff" together

You are young...(don't ya hate it when people say that?).  Sorry, and at 42 I know that as i heard someone else say well - the horizon is a line that changes as you approach it.  I mean as soon as we get something "together" we are in a new place and gain a new horizon/perspective and with it new goals and areas to grow into.  In my opinion, if you are lucky that never completely stops.  Moreover you are blessed if you can learn to feel your life from the inside out rather than try to measure it or yourself by an objective impersonal and unemotional measure such as status and power or the perfection of having it "all together."  Realizing our parents weren't the perfect omnipotent images we needed to have of them when we were children is one of the biggest steps in growing up and perhaps in giving ourselves a break too?  

Take care.

[Anonymous]

You've probably all seen these websites already, but in case you haven't, they may be useful to you.  Good luck to all of us in our quest to overcome our own N traits, whether few or many...

"Ask a narcissist" web page:

http://frost.bbboy.net/healnpd-viewforum?forum=33

"Healing NPD" web page:

http://wave.prohosting.com/healnpd/

Tony Brown's own story as a "recovering NPD'er":

http://wave.prohosting.com/healnpd/darkness.html